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  1. #11
    Just ran my own test on pathfinder, lore based generation is perfect. Items seem to work as well (but may have huge balance problems). the maps (Incarante-BattleMaps) seem to be perfect. Errors pop up on trying to open: races, npcs, spells, and backgrounds with little to no useful content (the bosses still have their combat flavor text but the stats don't come through properly).

    Verdict: Incarnate-Engine can be used with pathfinder for lore based generation. It should be used by the GM only to minimize confusion. It can still generate cities, buildings, npcs, and dungeon descriptions, but all embedded links (other than possibly items) should be ignored. When it generates stats, those stats will likely be incomplete and imbalanced as they are for a different system. The mapping modules such as Incarante-BattleMaps are fully functional within Pathfinder and I should probably code them to appear in all core-rpg rulesets (Consists of only maps and tables to randomly call those maps.)

  2. #12
    LordEntrails's Avatar
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    To make sure I understand this correctly, the license agreement for Incarnate (clause 2.a) means that the content generated by this can not be used for commercial purposes. Correct or am I misreading the license agreement?

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  3. #13

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    Thanks for posting results ProNobis. This still sounds very useful even with what you have!

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by LordEntrails View Post
    To make sure I understand this correctly, the license agreement for Incarnate (clause 2.a) means that the content generated by this can not be used for commercial purposes. Correct or am I misreading the license agreement?
    The relevant sections you are looking for are probably sections 2.g and 2.i:

    "(g) Linking. Licensee may link to the Code in other works for both personal and commercial use.
    (h) Reviews. Licensee may write or record reviews and tutorials for the Code on the internet or in print as long as such reviews and tutorials do not teach people how to (i) create products like the Code or (ii) replace the Code.
    (i) Generated Material. The Licensee may use Generated Material for commercial use if, and only if, the links that are placed in the generated material are maintained. This means that works using Generated Material will require the presence of the Code to be fully usable."

    I'm afraid that I am not allowed to give legal advise, so I cannot give any advice here and this is not to be taken as legal advise. The way I understand it is that it is a you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. You can link to it or use generated content that has links, in either case in order to use your product fully they will also need to have the relevant product from Incarnate.

    If you want to use the content while embedding the content so that there are no links to outside products we will need a separate agreement... which will have to be drafted by a lawyer at $250 per hour of his time. If you have questions where you want a legally binding official response I can direct you to my lawyer, but that advice will be at the price of $250 per hour of his time.
    (Sorry for the vague response, but I don't fully understand what the lawyer wrote and the whole process of creating the LLC and those documents was very expensive. I cannot afford to say anything that would compromise his work setting it up.)
    Last edited by ProNobis; January 30th, 2018 at 19:30.

  5. #15
    LordEntrails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProNobis View Post
    The relevant sections you are looking for are probably sections 2.g and 2.i:

    "(g) Linking. Licensee may link to the Code in other works for both personal and commercial use.
    (h) Reviews. Licensee may write or record reviews and tutorials for the Code on the internet or in print as long as such reviews and tutorials do not teach people how to (i) create products like the Code or (ii) replace the Code.
    (i) Generated Material. The Licensee may use Generated Material for commercial use if, and only if, the links that are placed in the generated material are maintained. This means that works using Generated Material will require the presence of the Code to be fully usable."

    I'm afraid that I am not allowed to give legal advise, so I cannot give any advice here and this is not to be taken as legal advise. The way I understand it is that it is a you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. You can link to it or use generated content that has links, in either case in order to use your product fully they will also need to have the relevant product from Incarnate.

    If you want to use the content while embedding the content so that there are no links to outside products we will need a separate agreement... which will have to be drafted by a lawyer at $250 per hour of his time. If you have questions where you want a legally binding official response I can direct you to my lawyer, but that advice will be at the price of $250 per hour of his time.
    (Sorry for the vague response, but I don't fully understand what the lawyer wrote and the whole process of creating the LLC and those documents was very expensive. I cannot afford to say anything that would compromise his work setting it up.)
    I appreciate it and get the part about legal advice. From a non-legal point of view, I will say the part you quoted seems to contradict or at least confuse the earlier part;

    "(a) Grant of License. With the exception of Third Party Content as addressed below, the Program, including text, photographs, images, graphics, designs, trademarks, audio, video, games, applications, items, software and files is proprietary of Licensor. Licensor hereby grants you a limited, non-exclusive, non-transferrable, non-sublicensable, and fully revocable license to use the Program on your Device solely for your personal, non-commercial, and entertainment use."

    I appreciate where you are coming from. I will say that because the license isn't straight forward and simple to understand, that Incarnate is not something I would look to use in any commercial means . From a single author publisher point of view, if I have to consult with a lawyer to understand if I'm using a product legally, it's not worth using. I mean even if such consulting only took an hour, it would probably mean that most projects would cost more than ever would be earned, and that would not be a wise decision.

    I will add, even though you haven't requested such, two pieces of advice to consider;
    1) Simplify your license. Their is way too much "legal-ese" that will prevent people like me from using it.
    2) Re-vamp your website. I've spent ~10 minutes on your website trying to figure out what Incarnate does and have tried watching your intro video. I still really have no idea what it does or why I might want to use it. IMO, a prospective user needs to be able to start to understand within a minute of going to your site what it is and does. I will say Birdmaron apparently "gets it", but there are bound to be many others like me that don't. And we are all potential users you are losing out on.

    Good luck with it though, I'm all for more people being able to make more professional tools and such.

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  6. #16

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    Well I am not looking to do commercial products, so there isn’t much for me to get. I am impressed with their work though.

  7. #17
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    But Birdmaron, what does it do? That's what I don't get. Is it a bunch of tables? That do what? Give room descriptions? Is it a bunch of generators like donjon.bin.sh? What format does it "export" in? And it's an application to install not an online tool? I know I'm dense sometimes, and impatient at others, but after 3 minutes of an intro video and learning nothing and another 5+ minutes of cruising the website I couldn't figure it out.

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  8. #18

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    It is an FG module that is a bunch of tables. If you are a 5e guy (and even if you aren’t for a lot of it if you use universal modules extension) it is really a Godsend for a harried GM. Their web site I think describes it very well.

  9. #19

    Incarnate Endorsement

    While I did not take a deep dive into this project, I did load up his modules for Incarnate (just like any 5e module) and take it for a spin after watching this video below.

    YouTube: Incarnate - Engine - NPC Generation

    As Lord Entrails is suggesting, I too found myself wondering what this module did and how it was relevant to me as a player and as a prospective DM at first. I had to skip through several videos after viewing the Introduction video to further understand what Incarnate was and did. But I was curious and it did pay off (it is impressive!)

    • The advertising hook has roughly 30 seconds or less to succeed. Think Elevator Pitch.
    • The average attention span of an adult today is two to three minutes.
    • The legalese summary needs to be written in layman's terms for initial terms of use.
    • Detailed legalese is often buried post summary, the 100+ pages everyone normally skips (heheh).
    • I am a regular guy, excited about his work and what it portends (ad-hoc dm'ing on demand). I am not affiliated with ProNobis, not receiving anything for endorsing his work.


    A light bulb went off in my head of how much this module author would/could benefit when I recalled his FGDaze oneshot of Undermountain I recently played in. During this oneshot, the author described his goal of DM'ing the entirety of Undermountain with its thousands of encounters and rooms. The different factions that war beneath, it was incredible the detail that would need to spent flushing this all out. His module was the first thing that came to mind as soon as I watched ProNobis' NPC Generation youtube video.

    It showed how not only could Incarnate generate any random amount of NPC's, but one could generate custom, filtered list of anything pretty much, from npcs and encounters, dungeons, bosses, buildings, rooms, etc. The module is expansive, in progress and constantly updated. I could go on ad-nauseum but as they say a picture is worth a thousand words.


    Last edited by mlesnews; January 31st, 2018 at 18:46.

  10. #20
    Hi guys, just to clarify, I'm a geek, not a marketing expert. I'm doing my best, and the response says that the product is standing on its own, not my awful marketing. That being said, it would be a huge help if someone made a video talking about why they think it is cool and what it does. If you gave me permission I would gladly post that on my landing page, as I am well and truly awful at that type of stuff.

    As for the legal stuff... I'm going to ask for it to be tweaked to be a hair easier, and also for a summary I can post at the top with an appropriate disclaimer. Hopefully those who want to use it commercially will be patient enough to give us a couple weeks to look into and hopeful implement this. We have to have such a long and near bullet proof legal section because of one of the major publishers track records for being sue happy. I highly recommend that any independent publisher hire a lawyer to look over all agreements you sign with a publisher and draft the same for anything you release yourself. You should look for trick clauses in agreements like having in one place "The author maintains intellectual property for everything submitted" and in another "you give a perpetual non-revocable license to create derivative products" and in yet another "we do not guarantee keeping track of original authorship in derivative products". I found similar clauses to this in the agreement for one of the major publishers in this market. In layman terms this means that they can legally change one line of your product, call it a derivative, and sell it independently of the original without giving you any attribution or compensation. Although I doubt they will, they legally can. Again, I am not a lawyer, but finding these clauses I highly recommend hiring one and not trusting that just because someone is big that they will be fair.

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