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  1. #1

    Cloud of Daggers spell question

    Here is the description from the PHB.
    "You fill the air with spinning daggers in a cube 5 feet on each side, centered on a point you choose within range. A creature takes 4d4 slashing damage when it enters the spell's area for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there."

    My DM is reading this as the thing occupying the space which I cast it into does not take damage until it is their turn. I can see that logic from reading it, but
    it does not make sense to have to wait to deal the damage on a spell the creature is in until their turn begins. Has this been discussed before?

  2. #2
    JohnD's Avatar
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    Hmm... that's the way I read it too. Wonder if there's been a ruling on this somewhere.

    Unless you count the fact that the creature "enters" the square when the spell is cast and it and the daggers occupy the same 5'.
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  3. #3
    I have found many discussion threads on this topic, all saying different things. I just found what I would believe to be official ruling on it
    https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/fea...ers-april-2016
    The last line makes it sound like they would take damage when it is cast and when they start their turn in it.
    "In summary, a spell like moonbeam affects a creature when the creature passes into the spell’s area of effect and when the creature starts its turn there. You’re essentially creating a hazard on the battlefield."
    Which does not sound right to me either, makes it a bit OP I think. I may be reading this wrong as well?

  4. #4
    So, reading this ruling again it says no, it does not take damage on casting it. It only takes damage on the start of its turn if it is in the cloud. It can also take more damage if it has moved out of the cloud and is pushed back into it by someone else on their turn. So, I am reading this as my DM is correct and I do not deal damage on my turn, but wait until the start of their turn to deal the first damage if I cast it on their square.

    This makes me wonder if I cast CoD on its square and the next person casts thunderwave on it before it has a turn, knocking it out of the space... then by these rules it would not take damage?

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by hehaub View Post
    "In summary, a spell like moonbeam affects a creature when the creature passes into the spell’s area of effect and when the creature starts its turn there. You’re essentially creating a hazard on the battlefield."
    I would think the push from the Thunderwave could be defined as "passes into the spells area of effect" and cause damage at that point.

    Bonk

  6. #6
    LordEntrails's Avatar
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    My understanding is the spell does not deal damage when cast. And if a creature is moved out of the space before it's turn, it stil doesn't take damage.

    The reasoning I use to justify this is that the daggers take time to cause damage, and that not enough time has elapsed until the start of the targets turn for that damage has occurred. Of course, their are big holes in that reasoning (such as taking damage when entering). But of course rounds and turns and all that are just artificial constructs to help us tell our stories, so as long as any rule/ruling is consistent between sessions and with similar effects, then it doesn't matter too much which way you play it

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    So long as you only apply the damage when you cast it or on their first turn with its field it has no mechanical difference except another actor may attack and kill it before it takes damage in the second instance.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by damned View Post
    So long as you only apply the damage when you cast it or on their first turn with its field it has no mechanical difference except another actor may attack and kill it before it takes damage in the second instance.
    What people are pointing out is that a victim of the spell can be moved by someone else prior to their turn and not take damage. Thus dealing damage immediately deprives and ally of being able to 'pull them out of the way', given that rounds are virtually simultaneous.
    I never claimed to be sane. Besides, it's more fun this way.

  9. #9
    It would be one of the few times the rules takes account of that things in a round happens at the same time. Don't think that was intended.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Nickademus View Post
    What people are pointing out is that a victim of the spell can be moved by someone else prior to their turn and not take damage. Thus dealing damage immediately deprives and ally of being able to 'pull them out of the way', given that rounds are virtually simultaneous.
    I could think of other things that could be affected: Pack tactics, Attack of opportunity, etc. So, I think timing is important to determine, in which case this one is vague to me.

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