What's Old is New

[jharp]

I don't own the ruleset. A simple fact that one might say is negative in nature. However, this doesn't mean anything. It is simply a fact indicating a negative outcome.

"Ultimately it seems there just isn't any demand for these products on FG." is a fact given the information provided by SmiteWorks. It says nothing about anything other than WOIN isn't being played in FG. There doesn't have to be any reason other than what was said. Limited resources will be directed into areas where the most value can be obtained.

Sad but true. However, if SmiteWorks @ddavidson can somehow get the Ruleset out of the vault then maybe the ruleset will be worked on by someone else.

Jason

[Viper007]

I don't own the ruleset. A simple fact that one might say is negative in nature. However, this doesn't mean anything. It is simply a fact indicating a negative outcome.

"Ultimately it seems there just isn't any demand for these products on FG." is a fact given the information provided by SmiteWorks. It says nothing about anything other than WOIN isn't being played in FG. There doesn't have to be any reason other than what was said. Limited resources will be directed into areas where the most value can be obtained.

Sad but true. However, if SmiteWorks @ddavidson can somehow get the Ruleset out of the vault then maybe the ruleset will be worked on by someone else.

Jason

My apologies in the fact that I thought you had the ruleset. And it was a positive suggestion that is welcomed by myself.
However, your quote above seems that you have information I have not seen anywhere. Perhaps you would be so kind to link the information by Smiteworks, so that I can read it.

But it seems that your information about NEW not being played is in direct confrontation with the information below:

I understand that it's not worth committing developer time if there's little usage. I was just hoping I had missed something. Our group will play our first WOIN game this weekend

I understand you are coming to the rescue of Damned, and that is noble, but he can take of himself I think. As far as resources you speak of, is this the information you have, but not revealed, if so please enlighten me!

Again, my sincere apologies for misunderstanding your non-ownership of the ruleset.

[taalo]

EN World is still actively producing content for WOIN. While it's primarily with their Judge Dredd Line they produce content through their WOiN-related Patreon page which eventually makes its way to DrivethruRPG. WOIN's design is extremely modular and it's not been implemented to even have all the ruleset to make it fully work with NEW let alone adapting it to others. The equipment section has yet to be fully integrated with NEW (Dart ammo, Grenade types, and Special Ammunition), and things like the Shadow track, Cinematic Mode, and a place for the Hook and its Attribute (outside of the Descriptor) are all missing outright.

Then you get into buggy stuff like changing the Special Attribute doesn't change PSI Points, there are 2 types of currencies in all of WOiN's rulesets (cr/mcr in NEW) but there's only one on the sheet and it can't be edited even though there are currency options, unmodifiable Carry, one entry for SOAK even though at least two are needed (natural and armor - if not because of race/species then because of exploit, and they cover situations and damage types), Movement (less of a bug and more of a design choice) should be done like skills because Speed is a base stat modified by skill (there are 8 listed types of movement in NEW) and you don't list a movement type in which you don't have a skill or exploit, the actions tab is semi-automated and not listing where that automation came from makes it useless (and redundant with other parts of the sheet if you spend the time to figure it out). Then there's the d66 not being implemented in a functional way (d60+1d6 doesn't work with charts), at least with DCC a wonky way of using Zocchi dice was introduced even if the d20 has the wrong value listed when right-clicking it (but the Deed Die was done right, so why the problems with the d66?!).

It's frustrating that a product was sold when they had no intent on finishing it. Eventually listing the planned fixes and never implementing them is worse than never taking any actions - it's a lack of integrity move and at a minimum an anti-consumer stance.

[jharp]

Your right Viper007.

[HywelPhillips]

EN Publishing's Judge Dress licence is expiring and they are not producing anything more for it:

https://www.geeknative.com/136723/en...thout-renewal/

I guess that kinda puts the lid on it. It's a shame, it seemed like a system with a bunch of interesting features.

Cheers, Hywel

[Moon Wizard]

As a company, the production of ruleset content for most systems is outside of our ability to develop and deliver for every possible RPG system. Due to that, we focus our efforts on the top few systems; and allow other publishers and developers to develop and sell content through our store while providing support to them while doing it.

Over time, we have found publishers and developers fade away for a variety of reasons (over which we do not have control); and we do our best to provide maintenance to keep the rulesets continuing to work in their current state; but as mentioned, we do not have the resources to do active development and expansion. Already, just the maintenance and support is a significant investment in our resources that pull us away from new development on the client and ruleset features. (just see the Laboratory threads)

Again, as a company, we never present that a given DLC developed by others will be different than what it does when it is released. In fact, I make a point to tell people that they should always buy products for what they are today vs. what anyone has suggested they might do in the future. (which I feel is true for everything, not just FG DLC.) That is one of the major reasons why we offer a no questions 30-day money-back guarantee on everything sold in our store.

If you feel that this system should be given more development and expansions, then you should reach out to the publisher and let them know, so that they can find a developer to improve the experience. Ultimately, they are the ones who pushed to release on the FG platform, and worked with the developer.

Regards,
JPG

[ColinBuckler]

I have purchased all of the available products on SW store for WOIN (as well as a number of other products from DriveThru) and as a product the implimentation of NEW has come along leaps and bounds over the last couple of months.

The game system is fantastic and so open

Is the implimentation perfect - no. Could it be better - yes.

How could it be better - well there are a couple of things that are really holding it back all due to the way its been implimented, these are:

(1) There are no NPC's from the NEW core rulebook provided in the NPC's window in FG. This is a real pain in the proverbial a$$ as the ruleset is not really useable out of the box, also this means no example/guidance on how to set NPC's

(2) The ruleset coding (not the game data) is locked in the vault (including the theme). This blocks customisation and inovation with the ruleset. It also means as users we can not pop the hood and have a look at the engine beneath to see whats wrong or to code our own routines.

If these could be resolved it would help significantly.

[Viper007]

OK, this will be lengthy, but bear with me here!!

October 5th, 2017, 23:32 #1 MBM-Early Access 31st December 2017. NOTE: Everyone happy!

October 28th, 2017, 04:40 #30 ddavison-There are plans to continue this to cover O.L.D. and N.O.W. when it becomes available. NOTE: 30 days almost up!

October 29th, 2017, 16:13 #70 MBM-There are lots of plans for the space side, for example Spaceship Combat Tracker and Spaceship Data (ie NPC), oddly I've already got the basics done for the Spaceship data. NOTE: Never Seen

March 4th, 2018, 03:21 #153 Viper007-NOTE: My first post, notice my 30 days is way up and I am still around, hoping the ruleset gets finished!!

July 22nd, 2018, 19:45 #194 MBM-NOTE: Last post from MBM until below, only six months!!

February 3rd, 2019, 13:37 #209 MBM-I have an update to WOIN for O.L.D, though O.L.D. was never updated to 1.2 which the ruleset is based upon. I've recently asked again for this and for N.O.W. but nothing has yet appeared. I'll chase again. NOTE: Still have plans for OLD and NOW, more bait to dangle!

March 2nd, 2019, 18:53 #217 MBM-Still zero news from EN Publishing about OLD or NOW, plus no other adventures to convert or anything else. NOTE: Still plans are in the works?

August 8th, 2019, 23:01 #249 MBM-NOTE: Kidney stone last 6 months, understood, but seems Traveller and other systems get more love.

November 23rd, 2019, 14:44 #280 MBM-Been working on WOIN, as I want to run Judge Dredd next year, so been addressing the lack of equipment you can create yourself (mostly done), have made sure all recent errata is done (and it is), plus has my ace theme guy (Dan Titan) update the theme to make it more efficient. I'll be sending this to internal test in the week. On a side note, I've been working on NOW, that should be ready for very early New Year. NOTE: Still plans for NOW, another dangling piece of bait!

Sadly I doubt Smiteworks will get the license for Judge Dredd, but I'll make sure the ruleset should work. NOTE: Make sure the ruleset works? Ohh, and two more months go by.

March 31st, 2020, 20:29 #289 MBM-NOTE: Still talking about OLD, and four more months go by. What! This is 2020!!!

October 9th, 2020, 11:07 #362 MBM-NOTE: He finally gives up and says so, nine months into 2020. But Smiteworks is still selling it and it's still not in a good state!!!

May 11th, 2021, 15:38 #440 ddavison-NOTE: We hear from the man himself after five years of MBM, don't know who Colin is, but he ruffled ddavison's feathers and everything was the truth. Anyway, I thought ok, things are going to move now and we'll get something done and a few things did happen, Yay!! But wait--

November 11th, 2021, 21:01 #449 superteddy57-The ruleset is currently in maintenance mode. This means no further expansions currently. We are however providing bug fixes as they appear. NOTE: Nice after five years, and bits of hope dangled in front of those interested over those five years. Good work there, Smiteworks!!

Fast forward to now:

If you feel that this system should be given more development and expansions, then you should reach out to the publisher and let them know, so that they can find a developer to improve the experience. Ultimately, they are the ones who pushed to release on the FG platform, and worked with the developer.

Now I have to add this bit of information, because of the statement, I went to man himself to find out!
EN Post Reply.PNG

Am I upset, not really, just amazed at what can happen, when a company is not above board. I didn't do this, the ball was dropped by MBM, Smiteworks, and no one seemed to care to fix it, now it's over. I'm done with it! Now do I want a refund, yes, do I deserve a refund, yes, should I get interest on that money I lost, yes, will I get it, no!!

[jharp]

Have you asked for a refund?

[ColinBuckler]

My journey is not to dissimilar to Viper007 except that its only been about 7 - 8 months.

One of the reasons for choosing to do the ruleset for FGU over other products that offered "rulesets" for vtt (Foundry mainly) was the significant level of investment (93 entries on my orders page) I have already made in FGC/FGU over the years and the level of support received in the past.

Certainly looking back the development of this product has been very drawn out with repeatedly promises to add OLD and NOW to the list - even giving the impression that most of the development for OLD being completed.

The cause for all of this in my opinion is:

(1) One person performing the development on a ruleset potentially in isolation. Accepted that without one person picking up a ruleset the rtuleset may not have been developed.

(2) Lack of product management. No properly defined roadmap or timescales.

(3) The developer seemingly moved on to other products which appears to be more profitable and to us customers leaving the product with tales that the development woudl continue.

The real issues are for all intense and purposes this appears to be an official Smite Works product, if this was a 3rd party product purchased elsewhere I would not have felt so let down.

I have been disappointed in other products from SW but not as much as this one - I have since moved on from this FG ruleset, life is too short to wait, and count $41.97 spent a lesson learned - in fact looking back, these was the last products I purchased at SW back in May.

My only hopes are SW learn something from this in some way.