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  1. #441

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
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    Staffordshire, UK
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    Hi ddavidson,

    Thanks for adding to the bug tracker. My mistake in presenting the issues in the word document - I thought it may be best to group the information together that way. I will present in the forums entirely in the future.

    For some rulesets, such as 5E, its easy to identify where to post errors, in other rulesets such as WOIN where the information tends to be in a multi-ruleset forum/single thread its easy to lose track of details. Would you recommend posting just to this single thread long'ish thread or to create a thread for individual errors. I can see pros/cons to both approaches.

    As an experienced GM using FGU to run 3 x 5E games a week/playing in a fourth and having several additional rulesets besides, I expected a reduced level of integration compared to 5E and some other systems. WOIN NEW looks very polished on the screen images provided and seems to indicate on the product page that its compatible with WOIN OLD (where is OLD anyways - it seems to have been promised for years?). With the ruleset being sold by SW I (wrongly) assumed it would be on par with the quality of the other products purchased and have enjoyed for numerous years. The sad truth is that it just isn't - with some of the errors I am surprised how the current ruleset release managed to get through quality control. The same can be said about Xenomorphs and Trailblazer 9. If this was a community developed free ruleset I could fully understand it.

    I was tempted to "pop the hood" on the ruleset and had a look at the coding to see if I could have hooked into the ruleset in anyway and maybe code my own NPC sheet - not sure I have the time with current commitments but have considered it. The problem is that I can not look at the ruleset coding as everything (including an extension with the theme!) is locked away in the vault. The data I can understand being in the vault but the ruleset? - as previously stated this is the only ruleset like this out of 19 rulesets that is protected in this manner (e.g. 2E, 3.5E, 4W, 5E, BRP, Cthulhu, Castles/Crusades, Cypher, d20 Modern, Fate, Numenera, PF, PF2, Savage Worlds, Starfinder, The Strange...)

    I fully accept each ruleset will have a different level of integration and it would be good if this could be communicated in someway on the ruleset product page. Maybe in a form of a coloured badge, e.g. 0 = No integration (black), 1 = simple (red), 2 average (amber) and 3 = high (green) level of integration (about 5e level). The product page could also go on to explain in a couple of sentences what to expect from automation rather than just provide details about the game system.

    Smite Works is one of the best proactive companies I have purchased products from. The products tend to be A1 (odd exceptions). The level of support far exceeds any reasonably level of expectation. The community is very relaxed, friendly and very helpful. Which is why an official sold SW ruleset with this seeming poor level of quality control/support has quite honestly surprised me.

    I really hope this ruleset can be developed to a usable level in the near future....
    Last edited by ColinBuckler; May 11th, 2021 at 20:44.
    Ultimate License
    UK Time Zone (GMT/BST)
    DM'ing since 1977 (Basic D&D)
    Currently Playing:
    Storm King's Thunder 5E Campaign
    Tales from the Yawning Portal 5E Campaign
    Rise of the Runelords Pathfinder 1e
    "Some are born to move the world, to live their fantasies
    But most of us just dream about the things we'd like to be."
    Rush - Losing It

    Currently DM'ing
    Princes of the Apocalypse 5E Campaign
    Waterdeep: Mad Mage 5E Campaign
    Ghosts of Saltmarsh 5E Campaign
    The Blight 5E Campaign

  2. #442
    A new forum is now setup for WOIN and a bug report thread. Please report any bugs related to the ruleset or store modules there.
    Dominic Morta
    Ruleset Developer
    Smiteworks

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  3. #443
    ddavison's Avatar
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    We just created a new forum thread for W.O.I.N. where we can keep posts together. Superteddy asked for this and he will be moving the posts over that he finds. In general, having a new thread for a new bug would allow it to bubble to the top more easily and get added to our bug tracker with a direct link back to the issue thread. The bug tracker is also relatively new. Before then, individual developers were all keeping track of their own issues independently. We finally realized that it was too easy for SmiteWorks to lose sight of reported issues and fixes for them this way, and the new system should help with that.

    We are often on the fence from a company perspective on whether or not to add a new official ruleset. We know that the expectation is often to have a D&D 5E level of automation and feature sets. In the case of D&D 5E, we've been adding features to it consistently over the course of 6-7 years. It's also our number 1 selling ruleset and the costs to devote developer resources there make perfect sense. For more niche rulesets, we still think they are cool and worthy of having an official product. We just don't have internal resources to devote to them all. If there wasn't a W.O.I.N. ruleset, there wouldn't be any add-on modules you could buy and you'd be stuck with a CoreRPG based version of it where you had to enter everything yourself and with absolutely no automation. Yes, we would all love to see a fully automated ruleset that was custom built to handle all the nuances of every system out there, but it seems to me that there is still value in a lightweight ruleset that sits somewhere between CoreRPG and 5E.

  4. #444

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Staffordshire, UK
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    Hi Doug,

    Thank you very much for this - this is Great !!!!!

    I doubt I will have much time until the weekend as that strange real life world is such a pain and gets in the way a bit too often...

    If functionality is there but not working as intended/should that is clearly a bug and should go in the thread that supperteddy57 has created. If the functionality is not there, then that is obviously a feature request and should marked appropriately in its own thread for evaluation by the developer. Likewise missing content is not really a bug - I know there are a few instances and I will attempt to identify them when found.

    I agree with you entirely about automation - it would be lovely to have a fully automated ruleset for every game system - I can not see that ever happening, even 5E doesnt have that now (looking at you temporary max hit point reductions from undead)!

    But ideally there should be a minimum standard agreed. Not my place to say what this minimum standard should be but basic stats (inc. equipment, recording abilities/spells...etc) for PC/NPC, making a standard attack against another target, applying damage to a target, everyday skill checks/standard saving throws from sheets and adding a comment to a combat tracker entity (doesnt have to be an effect) all seem to be good starting point to me. If not, then you might as well, like you say, just use the standard Core ruleset....

    On another note - I do apologise if any comments I have made seem overtly aggressive - they were never intended to be. I fully support people having their own opinions and likewise hope people consider my opinions (doesnt mean they have to except mine - just consider)...

    Once again many thanks for the forum and I hope the comments enable the ruleset to progress forward...
    Ultimate License
    UK Time Zone (GMT/BST)
    DM'ing since 1977 (Basic D&D)
    Currently Playing:
    Storm King's Thunder 5E Campaign
    Tales from the Yawning Portal 5E Campaign
    Rise of the Runelords Pathfinder 1e
    "Some are born to move the world, to live their fantasies
    But most of us just dream about the things we'd like to be."
    Rush - Losing It

    Currently DM'ing
    Princes of the Apocalypse 5E Campaign
    Waterdeep: Mad Mage 5E Campaign
    Ghosts of Saltmarsh 5E Campaign
    The Blight 5E Campaign

  5. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by ColinBuckler View Post
    Hi Doug,

    Thank you very much for this - this is Great !!!!!

    I doubt I will have much time until the weekend as that strange real life world is such a pain and gets in the way a bit too often...

    If functionality is there but not working as intended/should that is clearly a bug and should go in the thread that supperteddy57 has created. If the functionality is not there, then that is obviously a feature request and should marked appropriately in its own thread for evaluation by the developer. Likewise missing content is not really a bug - I know there are a few instances and I will attempt to identify them when found.

    I agree with you entirely about automation - it would be lovely to have a fully automated ruleset for every game system - I can not see that ever happening, even 5E doesnt have that now (looking at you temporary max hit point reductions from undead)!

    But ideally there should be a minimum standard agreed. Not my place to say what this minimum standard should be but basic stats (inc. equipment, recording abilities/spells...etc) for PC/NPC, making a standard attack against another target, applying damage to a target, everyday skill checks/standard saving throws from sheets and adding a comment to a combat tracker entity (doesnt have to be an effect) all seem to be good starting point to me. If not, then you might as well, like you say, just use the standard Core ruleset....

    On another note - I do apologise if any comments I have made seem overtly aggressive - they were never intended to be. I fully support people having their own opinions and likewise hope people consider my opinions (doesnt mean they have to except mine - just consider)...

    Once again many thanks for the forum and I hope the comments enable the ruleset to progress forward...
    I will relay the same information I provided to VtM and SFRPG in terms of what should be reported.

    Things to Report
    -If the functionality was there and is no longer working within ruleset.
    -Performing a task creates an error in the console and is game breaking.
    -If module data does not function with ruleset.
    -Typos or wrong data within modules or ruleset.

    The rest I would file under a feature request or new addition to the ruleset. These, you are correct, would be looked over and discussed as a future implementation. I would also be recommending to any devs that have created modules to subscribe to the bug report thread to keep things in one place to ensure things are not lost. This has been a success with most of the ruleset forums to keep things in one place.
    Dominic Morta
    Ruleset Developer
    Smiteworks

    How to zip up your campaign if the Developers ask for it-How to zip up your campaign if the Developers ask for it

    How to provide an Unity Connection issue?-Connection Issues and What to Provide

    Unity Updater issue?-Updater Issues

    Classic and Unity Port Forwarding?-Fantasy Grounds Connections Explained

    Comcast or Cox ISP User?-Comcast XFinity and Cox Users

    Have a suggestion?-Idea Informer

  6. #446
    ddavison's Avatar
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    It's okay to provide reviews, criticism, bug reports, and feature requests. Those are all welcome and constructive. There is no need to apologize for sharing your opinion of the ruleset. It may help other potential buyers decide whether or not the product is suitable for them.

  7. #447
    Quote Originally Posted by ColinBuckler View Post
    Is anybody running a WOIN game - if so how?
    I've run some Judge Dredd, some home-brew (my own dystopian cyberpunk/transhuman setting, as well as a sci-fi portal fantasy [pocket dimensions] setting), and this weekend will start a short Strontium Dogs scenario. WOIN is a high-potential/low-realization system, unfortunately. We enjoy using it, but it apparently hasn't managed to hit critical mass despite the 2000 AD licenses. Right now, I do a lot of manual data plugging (building a consistent skill list, for example...I'm not a fan of WOIN's "just make up a skill and tack it on" approach). If I had the time, I'd try to figure out how to put a module together to cut some corners.

    My biggest gripe has been the apparent disappearance of NPC skill rolls, but it sounds like I may be misremembering them ever working in the first place. Weird.

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