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  1. #1

    Character Creation and FG. . .

    So, my friends and I have been playing on Fantasy Grounds for about a year now. I also happen to use the E-Tools for creating my character sheets (because I've no head for math, frankly).

    To simplify character creation, avoid players padding their die rolls, and for a level playing field, instead of my players rolling their character sheets, I went with the standard Point Buy system for my players (DMG pg169).

    The characters were made and have progressed to level 4. Now I have a player that's taking exception with the point buy system, because he feels demi-humans can exploit the system (because they can get an 18 for less than a human character).

    I'm curious to see if anyone else feels this is a problem, and also to see how other DMs are handling character generation in FG? Do yo watch your players roll dice in FG for the ability generation? Use Ponit Buy? Assign a set of numbers to each player?

    Just curious to hear what everyone else thinks.
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  2. #2
    Sure races with a bonus to a stat can get an 18 for cheaper but it costs them more to get that 12 in the stat they take the penalty.

    Right now I am doing a Point Buy system for the Age of Worms game I am running on FG. In fact, the stat increase that the standard rules say you get every 4 levels is also point buy. Here is a link to the houserule that I use. I forget who I orginally stole it from.

  3. #3
    I just ran some numbers real quick, and assuming a Dwarf Fighter and a Human Fighter, both of whom want a "perfect" 18 con - and even point distribution everywhere else, I got the following stats:

    Human Dwarf
    STR 10 11
    DEX 10 11
    CON 18 18
    INT 10 11
    WIS 10 10
    CHA 9 9

    So, the bonuses work out the same, but it can be argued that the dwarf will have an easier time getting more bonuses by adding a single point to each skill at every 4th level (assuming, again, even distribution which isn't realistic, perhaps, but easily demonstrates the math).

    I dunno, maybe I should take this to the D&D forums, but since it only came up because we're playing via FG, I thought I'd ask here first.
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  4. #4

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Point buy. For the reasons you state. Plus I wanted the players to be able to create their characters 'off-line' instead of me trying to arange time with everyone to connect and watch them roll.

    Sure, other races can get to 18 easier. And humans get that extra feat and extra skills every level. If someone is that worried about someone having an 18, they are probably the ones you would have problems with by letting players roll dice.

    We had players (in our face to face game) literally roll and roll stats till they filled up a paper front and back with numbers. Really... at that point you might as well just pick what you want your stats to be.

    The only other way I'd consider it is to set a limit of some kind. Total ability modifiers to be +4 or more. Then let them roll till they got a set over that limit.


  5. #5

    Yeah, I'm with you, but while this is a trustworthy player. . . he's also constantly on the lookout for eveyone else to be playing min/maxers or power characters. He has a very specific view of what D&D should be, and can make fairly interesting points when things fall outside his ideal.

    In this case, we have a halfling ranger who can do **AMAZING** things with a shortbow - and his 18 Dex is, I think, the point of contention here.

    I pointed out what you did (extra feat at 1st level, extra skill points), and his reply was "yes, but I'm talking about JUST the skill points". So, he's not worried about how it balances out overall - but is oddly worried about how easily someone can score an 18.

    I'm gald for the replies tho, and the more ammo I can get (on either side of the fence) the better.
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  6. #6

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    I don't think you can talk about just one aspect of a character class/race vs another and get a balance. It does not work that way. You add something here and take something away there.

    Compare that rogue to same level human rogue and look at their skills (a rogues bread and butter). The human one will have quite a few more skill points. Which means that human one will be more flexable and be able to have more skills maxed out. You might not think that matters... till you miss tha climb/tumble/bluff check by 1.

    I've seen it aruged that the physical stats and mental stats should be rolled/point buy'ed seperatly. So you would have, say 14 points for str, dex, con and 14 for int, wis and cha. And if a character gets +2 dex, they get -2 to one of the other physical stats.

    And doesn't that Rogue get -2 str? So that human rogue is going to have a better climb, jump skill (maybe) and be better at hand to hand combat.

    Range characters are nice till someone gets in your face and ruins you day.



  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by richvalle
    Range characters are nice till someone gets in your face and ruins you day.
    As he learned against some chokers recently. ^.^

    Yes, the halfling loses 2 to strength, but my player's argument (he's a human paladin) is that because he's getting an 18 for "free" (from 16) he's saving 6 purchase points. And that can be used to restore the 2 STR that's being lost and still have 4 "more" points to spend.

    I'm with you, I think he's making a silly argument, but I REALLY like your counter-argument of any ONE aspect is unbalanced - for example, I can compare his BAB to the Rangers. Or his aura, etc etc etc. It's good cannon fodder.
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  8. #8

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    You know one thing you can do (in the future) is take the points off at the end.

    So, that rogue would not say 'I get -2 to str so that makes me an 8 so I add 2 to get back to 10'

    But might say 'Well, I made my str a 14 but I get -2 so it ends up a 12'.

    It might not matter, but it could end up making it more then 2 points.

    Just a thought.


  9. #9
    In my DM:ing times I used to make it harder for non-human races in human cities. RPG is not all about fighting. Some of my players were half-giants, but they had a really hard time when it came to interacting with NPC:s. Some even considered them a threat. Halflings might be good thieves, but what if everyone knew that and didn't let those sneaky bastards in their house/shop.
    There's a lot more in the character sheet than the numbers. It's up to DM how to use that information.

  10. #10
    Sigurd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Ontario, Canada
    And in game logic I think its patently unfair that there are so many humans about. Us Dwarf characters demand that 15% of all humans be converted to dwarves allowing us better economies of scale, easier disquise checks, more customers and a vastly improved selection of spouses who will accept our flee bitten hides when we come back from adventuring minus an ear and a certain body part because of a stupid dragon who never should have been where he was attacked us in an unsportsmanlike way that never should have been allowed to happen and probably wouldnt have happened if the I'd been a tall human.

    so there


    sour-grapes, ehm, sorry,


    No-grapes McKrakin Dwarf Farmer

    ps. want to buy a mostly complete set of armor ?

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