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  1. #1

    Dice: Manual Entry Option

    So, I was worried about this option as a cheat mechanic.
    I don't know why this option is here (maybe live tables with physical dices?... but /dice # would do the job and is 'faster').
    So a player can "set" the value that they want to the dice roll, and at least for them the chat shows a [MANUAL ROLL] tag. So a DM can detect that he is 'cheating'.
    But the inverse isn't true? When a DM do manual roll the chat doesn't show this tag... why? This let DMs to fudge and cheat attacks.

  2. #2
    Exactly. Trusting your GM to provide a fun and challenging experience is part of the process of finding a good group. A GM shouldn't be policed.
    I never claimed to be sane. Besides, it's more fun this way.

  3. #3
    hummm...you don't need to fudge and cheat to bring "fun and challenging experience"...

    At least show to the players that this option is activated by the DM (only the option, not when the roll is fudged). That way the DM can talk with the players at session 0 and alert his style of play.
    Not showing any indication that the DM have "fudge mode" enabled is a dishonest feature IMO.

  4. #4
    LordEntrails's Avatar
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    It's just like how many GM's will roll there dice behind a screen.

    You can always think of a reason or way in which anything can be abused. But do you want to bother playing a game with someone you can't trust to have the fun of everyone as a priority?

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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Zephyros View Post
    So, I was worried about this option as a cheat mechanic.
    I don't know why this option is here (maybe live tables with physical dices?... but /dice # would do the job and is 'faster').
    So a player can "set" the value that they want to the dice roll, and at least for them the chat shows a [MANUAL ROLL] tag. So a DM can detect that he is 'cheating'.
    But the inverse isn't true? When a DM do manual roll the chat doesn't show this tag... why? This let DMs to fudge and cheat attacks.
    Short answer, it's here because a lot of people requested it. People went so far as to make mods to add it in. The problem was that the mods were clunky and had some odd issues. FG responded to the community requests and made it an official enhancement. You don't have to turn it on.

    As for why, I know that for my local group some people really like to roll the dice, it's part of their fun. But they also like the convenience of FG tracking the game state, so this allows them to roll and FG to maintain the state.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Nickademus View Post
    Exactly. Trusting your GM to provide a fun and challenging experience is part of the process of finding a good group. A GM shouldn't be policed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zephyros View Post
    hummm...you don't need to fudge and cheat to bring "fun and challenging experience"...
    Whistle blows.
    Penalty flag on the field. Unnecessary word twisting.

    Nobody said that you need to fudge and cheat to bring fun and challenging experience. The point was about finding a good group where you trust your GM versus playing in a group where you do not trust your GM.

    Drops back the loss of yards.
    Whistle blows and play resumes.
    Ram

    If I am walking with two other men, each of them will serve as my teacher. I will pick out the good points of the one and imitate them, and the bad points of the other and correct them in myself. -- Confucius

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephyros View Post
    So, I was worried about this option as a cheat mechanic.
    I don't know why this option is here (maybe live tables with physical dices?... but /dice # would do the job and is 'faster').
    So a player can "set" the value that they want to the dice roll, and at least for them the chat shows a [MANUAL ROLL] tag. So a DM can detect that he is 'cheating'.
    But the inverse isn't true? When a DM do manual roll the chat doesn't show this tag... why? This let DMs to fudge and cheat attacks.
    Hi Zephyros,
    There is another way to look at this tool. Like LordEntrails said above, it's like when a DM rolls a die behind a screen. Why not roll it in the open? Or why have players roll in the dice tower? It's because the DM wants a certain outcome for the action to bend the story his way. If you want the story to totally go the way according to the dice rolls, that's one way to play. I'm the type of DM that is very invested in my story lines, and sometimes I need certain outcomes to happen and in order to make that happen, I need the dice to roll a certain way. So for me, it's not so much "cheating", as it is trying to nudge the story in a certain direction by way of the dice. I entertain my players through my storytelling. It's not used for every single roll, just when I need it.
    Last edited by Niles; September 4th, 2017 at 17:10.
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  8. #8

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    The tower is also used for rolls that the character could not know the outcome of. When a character is looking for traps, they make a roll. If they are successful, and the GM says there are no traps, then the player can be confident that there are, indeed, no traps. However, a more realistic situation is that the character does not detect a trap, but there may or may not be a trap - either there is none, or they were unsuccessful at detecting the existing trap. This is what the tower is useful for - the player rolls the dice, and if the GM says "you do not detect any traps" the player does not know if that means there is no trap, or they failed their roll. This situation can be used to describe a variety of situations. It prevents a player from having knowledge his character could not possibly know.

  9. #9
    JohnD's Avatar
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    By definition a DM cannot "cheat" since they are the arbiter of everything that takes place in their creation.

    Andraax is spot on regarding the Tower.

    If a player doesn't "trust" their DM, then the best thing they can do for not only themselves, but the DM in question as well, is find a different game to join or don the mantle themselves; nobody needs that friction on either side of the screen.
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  10. #10
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    Everyone plays the game differently; there are DMs that fudge dice (for good and bad reasons no doubt) and there are those that don't. Each to their own. If you don't like the idea that a DM would fudge dice then only play with DMs that have the show DM rolls option on and ignore those that don't.
    If there is something that you would like to see in Fantasy Grounds that isn't currently part of the software or if there is something you think would improve a ruleset then add your idea here https://www.fantasygrounds.com/featu...rerequests.php

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