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  1. #1
    DragonsDen13's Avatar
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    Druid Wild Shape and Proficiency increases

    When a Druid levels to 5th level (or higher) and their Proficiency bonus increases, does this increase adjust the "attack bonus" when shifted into form?

    example: A Brown Bear has a Bite melee attack with +5 to hit. When the druid becomes 5th level and his proficiency goes from +2 to +3, would the Brown Bear now have a melee attack with +6 to hit?

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    El Condoro's Avatar
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    Dot point 1: "Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the beast..."
    There are other caveats to that but proficiency bonus is not included, so by the rules, no but your DM (you?) might make a different ruling.

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    DragonsDen13's Avatar
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    I've been looking but can't seem to find anything in the books where a character's Proficiency Bonus" is a game statistic. What I did find pointed more to the 6 character stats being statistics. And since it says "You also retain all of your skill and saving throw proficiencies", of which I would assume "Proficiency bonus" is one, it makes me wonder.

    Does anyone know where it states what specifically are game statistics?

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    El Condoro's Avatar
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    I did a Google search on "sage advice wild shape proficiency bonus" and there are a lot of opinions. The one from Jeremy Crawford _seems_ to indicate they get the better of the proficiency bonuses (beast or druid) for all things (skills, saves, attack) but it wasn't conclusive IMO.

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    I never claimed to be sane. Besides, it's more fun this way.

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    DragonsDen13's Avatar
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    Thank you Nickademus for linking that. I enjoyed listening to this and it helped clear up a lot of things, in my mind.

    El Condoro, I do agree that Jeremy Crawford doesn't specifically state, in no uncertain terms, that the character's Proficiency Bonus doesn't transfer over for combat but he does say the character gets to hang on to their skill and saving throw proficiencies. So, if they hang on to part of their proficiencies then it would seem they would hang on to all of them.

    I would tend towards believing the character would retain their proficiency bonus, even in animal form, as they don't stop being a character just because they have shifted into another form. If that were the case then any shape altering affect (Alter Self, etc) would cause the character to become something different and would lose this bonus as well. None of that seems to be the intent of the designers, based on the above linked podcast. The character is still the character at their core, they are primarily just changing their physical form and thus wouldn't lose this bonus any more than if they lost an arm.

    Thanks again for the responses folks.

  7. #7
    El Condoro's Avatar
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    I think there is a good case in RAW to agree with you: in that first dot point, it also says "If the creature has the same proficiency as you and the bonus in its stat block is higher than yours, use the creature's bonus instead of yours".

    The 'proficiency' is not stated (skill, save or attack). Your point that the proficiency bonus is intended for all proficiencies is well made. Also, is seems to imply "if the bonus is NOT as high as yours, use yours."

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