Hitting an expense wall in FG

[Nalfien]

IMPORTANT EDIT: I didn't have the 5e SRD open in my library, and thought it didn't include all 12 SRD classes. So until about page 3 of this thread I was writing with some very bad misunderstanding. This completely nullifies this entire thread which should be locked or ignored from now on. THANK you to the community for helping me understand my mistake.


Many years ago I bought a standard licence of Fantasy Grounds for use at the tabletop. I had never ran an online game. Now, I want to use it online after being away from it for so long, and I thought I would share my impressions.

I am basically a salesman for 4 players to pay a reasonable $4/mo for a subscription. That's a reasonable price they shouldn't complain about, and I believe in the value of what I'm selling them. The problem I faced was that the demo they downloaded to at least write up a character with doesn't include all they need to do so with the features that make Fantasy Grounds so great. I was under the assumption that they would be able to drag over backgrounds, classes, etc. and see if they like the program enough to where they would be more open to the $4 subscription is worth it due to the great convenience that FG offers. My players and I come from 3.5e, and making new characters in 5e is new to us. I had set an expectation to them that they were going to be able to roll up a character virtually with the included 5e SRD in a drag and drop way that would be easier than me guiding them through in person with books. I had set an incorrect expectation.

FG is a blank sheet when it comes to the resources available in the demo. They can't even load the libraries for 5e SRD. So I encouraged them to get the 4$ subscription and said that I could load the 5e SRD on my end, so if they got a standard subscription they would have that too. So they get the subscription only to discover that the classes on the 5e SRD only include 4 of the 12 basic classes.

We are all understanding that the 5th edition D&D System Rules Documents were open for public use without purchase and that Fantasy Grounds would provide these already as part of their advertised 5e Ruleset that comes with any licence (even demo). However that understanding happened, we were wrong.


This leaves me with four options, none of which I like.

• I can explain that only SOME of the 5e SRD is included to show the power of the software's capabilities as an advertisement, then encourage them to pay $50 for the core class rule set.
• I can encourage them to pay me equal parts to cover it and I can make it available to them only when they are connected to me as a host at the moment.
• I can cough up the $50 myself, even though I've bought a standard licence and just shelled out $35 the day before on an adventure module.
• I can get good and stop focusing on customizing the purchased module to enter all this stuff by hand, probably by learning to use PAR5E.

So, before I do any of the above 4 options, am I reinventing the wheel? Is there a public 5e SRD module in Fantasy Grounds that people can share or is that illegal? I don't understand why it's illegal if it's just the SRD content, so please educate me. The PHB and DMG have value beyond the SRD. I don't mind paying for something I feel is worth the money, and I honestly believe Fantasy Grounds is worth paying for. I just feel a little remorse spending more time prepping unless I'm paying more. I feel that the store's prices are too high in some cases and well worth it in others.

If the initial stuff wasn't so expensive I could see myself nabbing things on the store I might want to use later, but I can't even get a warlock in the game without either doing a lot of work for them or telling them to spend a lot more money that what I had initially told them would be needed.

[JohnD]

Have your cheap friends absorb the cost of one trip to McDonalds for a lunch of fake food.

They each get the $4 subscription and each send you a bankruptcy inducing $12.50 in PayPal so you can buy the Complete Core Class Pack (essentially the PHB) and then you can share that content with them while they are connected to you.

If they are too cheap to take this route, you can always find new players here who will already have the software.

If you have a Full license, you should have the SRD modules available let to you - just open them up and share them when your players connect.

Can't do anything about inaccurate assumptions/expectations established ahead of time.

I have spent well over $1300 on FG and content since I joined. Personally I consider the vast majority of my purchases to be high value for the money, but to each their own. The 5e stuff specifically is the best put together and feature rich experience you will get.

[Nylanfs]

There's a common misunderstanding coming from 35e, the old SRD was largely everything in the main three books. In 5e the SRD is mainly a style guide aimed at helping publishers, it's not aimed at the end user like it was with 3e & 35e.

So there are large chunks missing from the 5e SRD.

Also welcome back!

[Nalfien]

Calling my players cheap and assuming my friends are replaceable is unnecessary, sir. Also, assuming they waste or choose to spend money on fast food is unrelated to the value of this software.

There's no way I'll ever spend as much as you have on Fantasy Grounds. With your tone I'm tempted to make comments about iPhones and Healthcare, but this is not the type of conversation I came here for.

Edit:

Nylanfs I do remember 3.5e including more, and I do believe this may be where my expectations got off track. Thank you for the kind welcome back.

[JohnD]

Well, good luck. Sorry I couldn't steer you to a reasonable resolution. Sad thing is the costs are always on the DM side in this hobby. If you can't convince them to make a small investment in hours and hours and hours of gaming fun via your campaign, there's really not much to talk about or complain about.

If it comes to it and you want to game but your intended players balk at the equivalent of a medium coffee at Starbucks, or a fast food lunch, you can always fill a group in the LFG section of the forums, likely quickly and without much effort.

Pricing is dictated by the IP holder which is WotC, so being angry at FG for that is misplaced. What the SRD contains is also determined by WotC. If they gave everything away for free in the SRD, nobody would buy the actual books.

[Nemori]

Hello,

AFAIK the players should have access to anything the DM shares with them, regardless of their license (if they can play with you at all). I don't know what's in demo, but my ultimate has the SRD and Basic Rules (in the free stuff).

SRD has all the 12 classes, but is missing on archetypes and backgrounds, and the Basic Rules have only the four classes that are in the the free PDF from WOTC. If your players see only four classes then they are not looking at the SRD. However the SRD is also intentionally incomplete because (at least according to my limited knowledge) it's designed to serve as a foundation for development of third party modules, not like free rules minus pictures.

This is decision made by WOTC, not SmiteWorks and you can see similar "holes" in data in other tools (orcpub, roll20, etc.) In other words there is no free and comprehensive version of D&D and the FG license by itself (whether Standard or Ultimate) does not include any licensed content, IMHO because it would not be fair to people who do not want to play 5E for instance.

IMHO the cheapest way to go is to pool your money, buy GM the ultimate license + all the required modules and play.

Hope that helped.

[Nalfien]

John, WotC determines how much of the SRD is included in FG? See that's valuable information you could respond with instead of having such a negative tone.

You may be able to spend $1,300 on Fantasy Grounds, but my players and I can't. I also can't ask them to purchase something for me they can only use if I'm available. With your advice to ask people to buy me things and look for different people to play with, I must wonder about how many things players have provided you and had they not how quickly you could replace them.

Edit:
Nemori, SRD includes all 12 classes? If that's true I think I need to look at what I have opened in my library because I'm only seeing 4 from the basic rules.

If you are correct, it pretty much nullifies my complaints.

[Trenloe]

So they get the subscription only to discover that the classes on the 5e SRD only include 4 of the 12 basic classes.

I'm seeing the 12 classes from the SRD, not 4:



But, as has been mentioned, you don't get all of the PHB details in the SRD. But you should get all of the 5E SRD in the FG modules. Check the link provided to the SRD above for more details of what the 5E SRD contains.

[JohnD]

It should be said, now that I think about it, if you guys all have the books yourselves, you can simply enter content into character sheets manually.

This will take a bit longer, and you'll have to do extra work to take advantage of the extensive FG automation, but it's a way of all of you to get up and playing without added expense beyond everyone needing a $4 subscription.

Apologies for my tone, mainly reposting to yours though. The comments stand; no idea what you're talking about iPhone vs Healthcare though.

[celestian]

Many years ago I bought a standard licence of Fantasy Grounds for use at the tabletop. I had never ran an online game. Now, I want to use it online after being away from it for so long, and I thought I would share my impressions.

Have you considered using the per month ultimate subscription (10 bucks) for a few months and see if you guys like it? Doing that you can bring up the server and the players could connect and view the SRD info you've loaded and shared.

I don't play 5e a lot but I was able to build my druid using the SRD items for my friends 5e game (I have ultimate license).

It's cheaper than the up-front balls deep cost but it gives you access to the version that your players don't have to pay to connect to you and they can make their characters.

Just a thought, best of luck!