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  1. #21
    damned's Avatar
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    Doc you need to come out from under that rock more often!

  2. #22
    I agree, we've missed you, Doc. Hey, I just realized. I literally had "just what the Doctor ordered".
    Last edited by vodokar; February 19th, 2017 at 04:51.
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  3. #23
    Finally purchased my Ultimate license after checking out the demo every few years for the last decade or so.

    If there was an official ruleset, I'd prefer it be in a simpler system than OSRIC/AD&D. S&W, if I'm understanding the "what modules are permitted" guidelines right, would let FGG content in -- which is fairly prolific. LL would be the same, and both have their megadungeons available if you can get publisher permission (FGG seems chomping at the bit then, right, so there's a ton of megadungeons to one shots available to produce)

    Or there's LL, which obviously has a ton of free/paid modules, as well as a number of "epic megadungeony" products too, although you'd have to hunt down the authors separately. Stonehell Dungeon (Michael Curtis), Barrowmaze (Gillespie), Dwimmermount (Autarch maybe holds the rights to the module...not sure)

    I think one benefit to having a supremely simple, but official ruleset like S&W (or nearly as simple with LL) would be the ability to have an official ruleset that content creators/converters could work on at a much faster pace. Both of those rulesets have a number of "official" or "officially compatible" products so there would be an opportunity to generate revenue, and the rulesets themselves would be simple enough that adding any unofficial/impossible-to-support content would be a snap for crotchety grognards not wanting too much complexity, as well as newcomers who can learn the content ropes without the complexity of the other official systems.

    Hell, a S&W or LL official set could be set at a lower-than-traditional price for a ruleset as a kind of stepping stone from CoreRPG -- a light framework with some automation and full system support which would still be basic enough to produce shorter video tutorials, a better learning curve, and maybe even ramp up the amount of content creators.

    You could even have a suggested progression of like CoreRPG, get your 5E player pack on, play some games, and while you're at it, here's a simpler system to get you started building (while introducing people to the OSR, and just generally that other RPG systems exist)

    Having that 'official, very lite' system in place could reduce attrition, too. It's cool if they bought the UL like I did, but it would really suck if everything in the ecosystem is highly complex and requires quite a bit of time and effort to build on for those not deeply familiar with the tools. Maybe one of the 0E or B/X systems like those mentioned would help people move more quickly from the "I love playing this with 5E but can't get over the hump with DM'ing 5E or creating my own stuff" or keep them entertained til they're comfortable with the toolchains needed to really make something solid.

    Super-rambly, sorry. It's late/early.

  4. #24
    Zhern is currently working on S&W and is getting pretty close to release. He currently doesn't have any plans to make it an official ruleset, however.

    With regards to modules, all of the OSR modules, whether originally created for 0e-like games, Bx-like games or 1e-like games or even modernish take's on old-school play, such as DCC RPG or C&C are all laid out with very similar stat-blocks and are extremely easy to port to any of the OSR game systems by design. It is technically feasible to support many of the game systems very easily and simultaneously with the same module.

    But, what is technically feasible doesn't matter. What matters is what people will buy. Because SmiteWorks believes that no one will buy OSR modules, they won't publish them. There is very little support even for C&C. Nothing is going to change that unless there are people actually willing to let them know that products like these would be desired and purchased.

    There are plenty of people out there that play OSR games. The problem is, few of them use Fantasy Grounds to do it. I've tried everything I know how to let those people know they are welcome here and there is something here for them, but, unless the population of OSR playing people increases, there is very little chance of getting any of the published material.

    The community developers can build the rulesets. We enjoy building them. People do play them. But, not enough to be able to call it a market worthy of getting any adventure or manual support, from SmiteWorks standpoint. Don't assume that even if one of those rulesets were given official status that that automatically means they will receive a lot of module conversions. If the first one or two were published and didn't sell, there wouldn't be any more. So, official status doesn't really mean much.
    Last edited by vodokar; February 20th, 2017 at 00:01.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by vodokar View Post
    Where have you been Dr. Venture? The AD&D ruleset has been out since January.
    Ummm... not here? I'll absolutely check it out, thanks!
    "A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." - John Shedd
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by damned View Post
    Doc you need to come out from under that rock more often!
    I wish... I so wanted to be in on getting AD&D rolled out on FG (I was hoping that SW's relationship with WotC might lead to an official product, with all the books, etc.), but life has other plans for me these days. Someday. Thanks for the kind thoughts, guys
    "A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." - John Shedd
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by vodokar View Post
    Don't assume that even if one of those rulesets were given official status that that automatically means they will receive a lot of module conversions. If the first one or two were published and didn't sell, there wouldn't be any more. So, official status doesn't really mean much.
    95%+ of the products published by Smiteworks are not developed by SmiteWorks. They rely on community developers to convert the product/module/whatever into Fantasy Grounds. You made a comment "There is very little support even for C&C." - this is because community developers aren't creating content for it, not because of some SmiteWorks decision - I don't think SmiteWorks themselves have ever produced module content for C&C, it's always been developers outside of SmiteWorks who do the work, and they usually decide themselves which products they convert.

    You seem to have the opinion that it's SmiteWorks lack of interest that there aren't products for OSR gaming. From my experience it is not that at all - there are two things that are needed for any product to be Published by Smiteworks: an agreement with the copyright holder and (and this is a big AND) there needs to be community developers ready, willing and able to convert products to Fantasy Grounds.


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  8. #28
    My take on what Trenloe just said is Rappan Athuk for S&W needs to happen!
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Trenloe View Post

    You seem to have the opinion that it's SmiteWorks lack of interest that there aren't products for OSR gaming. From my experience it is not that at all - there are two things that are needed for any product to be Published by Smiteworks: an agreement with the copyright holder and (and this is a big AND) there needs to be community developers ready, willing and able to convert products to Fantasy Grounds.
    With all due respect, and you know how much I respect you, Trenloe, it isn't my opinion. I made a submission of an OSR module conversion for C&C and was told by Smiteworks they wouldn't publish it. I pushed back, and they said they would talk over the policy internally, but no decision has been made as of yet. This thread specifically resulted from that.

    In this case, I am much more familiar with the facts of the matter than you are. That's a rarity, but true in this case. This thread, clearly, was meant to gage the potential of such products in this marketplace to aid their decision.

    I am very much wanting to work on such projects. I was offered by Joseph Browning, the entire line of Expeditious Retreat modules to work on, with permission to do conversions for C&C, and even 5e and Pathfinder. There is a lot at stake right now with this thread.

    With regards to C&C products from Troll Lord Games, point me in the right direction, I am willing to work on them. I have no idea what anyone else might be working on or not working on.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by vodokar View Post
    With regards to C&C products from Troll Lord Games, point me in the right direction, I am willing to work on them. I have no idea what anyone else might be working on or not working on.
    Reach out to the usual suspects at SmiteWorks. If they give you the go ahead I'm sure they'll give you an idea of what people are working on (that they are aware of), and you could also post in the C&C forums to see if anyone will update you on anything they may be working on - I know Talyn, Varssuk and Mortar have mentioned at various points that they might be doing some C&C conversion work.


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