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  1. #1101

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    Quote Originally Posted by Padre Moto View Post
    The worst that players comment on: so many modifiers to track and input.
    TIP:
    I have got into the habit of rarely using the modifiers in FG. While they are very useful to have on hand, they do slow down things a little. I roll the dice and then based on the result you can usually see if adding the modifiers would have made a difference. If the result is a borderline case, only then I will add up modifiers to see if the roll result was a success or failure...as you would if you were playing at the table with real dice. The only time I reliably add the modifiers to my FG roll is when making ranged attacks with RoF more than 1, because the ruleset conveniently totals the number of shots that hit.
    Timezone: Australian EST (GMT +10).
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  2. #1102
    Quote Originally Posted by ronnke View Post
    TIP:
    I have got into the habit of rarely using the modifiers in FG. While they are very useful to have on hand, they do slow down things a little. I roll the dice and then based on the result you can usually see if adding the modifiers would have made a difference. If the result is a borderline case, only then I will add up modifiers to see if the roll result was a success or failure...as you would if you were playing at the table with real dice. The only time I reliably add the modifiers to my FG roll is when making ranged attacks with RoF more than 1, because the ruleset conveniently totals the number of shots that hit.
    Great tip!

    Ronnke, do you think we could start a sticky on the GURPS forum where people can post tips? Or does that exist already? It might be helpful for new ruleset users to see different approaches to using the ruleset.
    Last edited by Padre Moto; February 14th, 2021 at 00:16.
    Rulesets:
    GURPS 4th Edition, Savage Worlds Adventure Edition, Savage Pathfinder, Dungeon Crawl Classics, Classic D&D, 5e Essentials

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  3. #1103
    Quote Originally Posted by ronnke View Post
    Unfortunately, as there is no official support for VTTs from SJG. It is not permitted to build in rules text and such into the ruleset, as that's breach of copyright. You can however add this information manually to your campaigns and set it up as additional information/notes within all of the skills, attacks, spells, abilities, traits, etc on the character sheet. This does not appear when you make a roll, but there is an icon you can click to easily access this information or link in chat for others to reference. There is also facility for any modifiers you need for all those things as well. Not all attacks in the combat tab of the character sheet need be weapons either. You can setup all your hand to hand attacks, range attacks (spells, guns, powers, or whatever) all with reference info, modifiers, modes of attack, parries, etc. Pretty much any roll you need to make in GURPS has a facility for it somewhere in the character sheet. There is a link in the OP which demos how to set all this stuff up. Not sure how current it is since that was done a while ago, but it does cover the basics.

    I would be happy to help to get your feet with the FG GURPS ruleset, jump onto my groups discord (https://discord.gg/8dXSZkg) and we can try work out a time. Alternatively, all VTTs are just different tools for you to play your games, if Roll20 is working for you, then keep using that. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
    Thanks for the reply! I might take you up on that Discord offer this weekend. And I really like the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." comment.

    I totally understand the copyright issues. In Roll20, you have to type the rules in yourself (or copy paste from PDF) as well. I usually then edit the text to make it as concise as possible with a page reference and indications where the text has been altered such as using an ellipse. It would be nice to have it all there for you; maybe SJG could produce something so that it doesn't infringe on their copyrights. Regardless, I want SJG to get their royalties so that they can afford to keep putting out GURPS material.

    Hopefully, this image will paste. It's a screen shot of some of what I'm talking about. There's actually a lot more rolls than I could get on one page with the text, including defense rolls. If I recall correctly, it starts with your Judo Parry defense vs. a bare handed attack and if you succeed then your next attack can be an attack to grapple the arm for no damage, which the defender gets defense rolls against (this gets bonuses for Combat Reflexes which should be figured in and noted). If that succeeds, then I believe on your next turn you can do the lock attack, which finally can inflict damage (and is a technique which can add bonuses on top of the skill involved - I have to reread the rules to remember if they get a defense roll and if they can use any of the 3 or if some are off limits). And then IF you actually inflict damage past the opponents DR, you can do a Pressure Points attack to cripple the limb which is an entirely different skill roll.

    Trying to remember how they link together is important. (I have to do this attack, then next turn I can do that attack, and if that succeeds I can do that attack. None of which inflict damage until the end.)

    But one of the key elements here is how you can link skills and techniques and attacks. The Technique involved can link to the underlying skill so that if you raise that skill, your technique roll is automatically recalculated and your attack for that technique is automatically recalculated as well, rather than trying to remember to individually change EVERY technique and every attack roll because your Judo skill went up by 1 point. And at every level, you've got the rules text right there so the GM doesn't have to remember every single word of the rules across 8 pages of rules and 3 different books. And if a question DOES arise there are page number references to go straight there instead of trying to desperately flip through the books.

    Again, thank you for the reply! Things have been hectic here as I've been in the middle of a natural disaster (literally) this week. But I may try to get ahold of you on Discord this weekend and take you up on the generous offer.

    Cheers!


    Complex Attack.jpg

  4. #1104
    Quote Originally Posted by damned View Post
    And yet thousands of sessions of GURPs are played on Fantasy Grounds.

    You start with saying its unbelievably complex and the rules have to be onscreen and then finish saying you need to be able to turn this off when you learn the rules...

    All RPGs are complex and require people to learn rules. If a player wants to use Martial Arts Arm Lock rules they should learn Martial Arts Arm Lock rules. They dont have to know the rules for using a Short Bow on Horseback.

    You know, after I hit "send" I realized you were right before you even replied.

    But "thousands" is probably pushing it a bit. I've been looking for a GURPS game since 4th edition came out. I've managed to find I think 4. Just recently found one, but they haven't had a session yet that I was able to attend. And I found that one on the SJG forum rather than on FG.

    I've specifically been looking for GURPS game on FG for a couple of years now with no luck whatsoever. But admittedly, I haven't looked very hard; I usually just pop in a couple times a year to see if there is a GURPS looking for players and inevitably there isn't or if there was it filled up a week or two ago. I wish there were a lot more GURPS games. I really love the system although I have found the rules difficult to understand without getting in a group and actually playing.

    I'm working on trying to put together a game myself and GM, partially for lack of games to play in and partially because I have some vague story ideas. But it's even worse not knowing the rules as a GM. It's a viscous cycle of "Can't find a game to practice and learn the rules and can't run a game because I don't know the rules". None the less, I'm still working on putting together a game right now.

    So, as far as having the rules right there where you can see the exact rule on screen rather than having to page flip to a page you're not even sure what the number of is - I'm looking at that both as a player and a GM. As a player, I'm mostly wanting to be quick on my turn rather than having the players wait or expecting the GM to look up the rules for me. (Or just know all the details of a 4 paragraph rule off the top of his head.) As a GM, I'm wanting the same from my players or at least if I have to do the work for them I want a handy reference.

    As a player, I started to do this in Microsoft OneNote where I clipped the rules from screen shots and had a page for each defense and attack. Then I realized I could put most of the info right there into each roll in Roll20.

    And using a short bow on horse back is quite complicated as well. ;-) At least if you use the Martial Arts book. There's at least a few penalties that apply depending on the speed the horse is moving at and you're riding with no hands which is a penalty which of course can be bought off if you have the right techniques, etc...

    All of this is more than a bit intimidating for a beginning GM, which I think is why you see so few GURPS games. I love the system, but haven't really had much opportunity to actually play it. I'm actually starting to learn it after a decade of reading the rule books. But, beyond just a very complex rules system (which in all fairness most of the better RPGS are just as complex -- some of them might even have more rule books) and the fear of being a page flipping GM, and the fact that you often still have to invent your own game if you want the game to match the story you have in your imagination, it's rough getting started as a GM and any little help possible is nice to have.

  5. #1105
    Quote Originally Posted by kairos View Post
    I have to disagree. I actually just bought an unlimited FG license specifically to use the GURPS ruleset here, even though I've got a Pro Roll20 account. The inability to import character sheets, to me, makes Roll20 a no-go for GURPS. And I haven't touched GURPS since 3rd edition in high school, so sort of a new player in that regard, especially to 4E.

    I've just spent twenty minutes adding spell descriptions to some DF pre-gens in GCS, which imported right into FGU.
    I spent 20 hours entering a character into Roll20 before i found out you can easily import a character from GURPS Character Assistant by exporting to XML, converting to Json, and then importing. I tried it and it worked very well. Although they said you can't re-import it. Not sure if that meant you had to start all over and wipe the existing sheet, or if it meant you can't even do that. Probably you have to delete and recreate the existing sheet, which is a bit of a problem because all of attacks and defenses that I'm talking about aren't in the GCA data and thus would be lost. But still, it would have saved me about 19 hours out of 20 if I had of known you can import GCA to Roll20. It even did a better job than I did by doing it manually in some places. Even all the page number references were brought in automatically from CGA.

  6. #1106
    Linked Attacks.jpg

    Here is another screen shot with some more details of what I was talking about. Notice that these attacks can link to a technique or a skill. The technique itself links back to a skill. So, all the numbers are added up into the roll. Plus, there's a modifier allowed at every level so that if a modifier applies to that level, it can be baked into the roll.

    There may be a way to do this in FG and I just haven't figured it out. But it's really nice to have it all linked so that if the underlying skill increases everything across the whole character sheet is automatically recalculated.

  7. #1107

  8. #1108
    Quote Originally Posted by damned View Post
    Unfortunately they havent posted any newer figures:

    Point well taken.

  9. #1109
    damned's Avatar
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    Your point is also fair - it doesnt seem like many games are available because most games are between existing groups. When people find a good group they tend to stick together as long as they can.

  10. #1110
    Quote Originally Posted by damned View Post
    Your point is also fair - it doesnt seem like many games are available because most games are between existing groups. When people find a good group they tend to stick together as long as they can.
    I play GURPS -alot- on Fantasy Grounds, and this is the case with us. We don't play in an open group. We've been playing for years.

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