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  1. #1

    Requested releset to be a stretch goal on AS&SH Kickstarter

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...project_update

    I just posted this on the AS&SH Kickstarter:

    "Would you consider supporting the creation of a ruleset for the Fantasy Grounds Virtual Tabletop Software as one of the stretch goals, pretty please. Swords and Wizardry and Barbarians of Lemuria both did that thru their kickstarter. This would make you part of the COOL_KIDZ on the block. Please speak to DDavidson over at Fantasy Grounds. He can help answer any question you might have."

    If anyone else is backing this project, please back me up on it. You never know till you ask. I was floored when I learned that Barbarians of Lemuria had a finished commercial ruleset and S&W has one forthcoming. Kickstarter is where we really need to press this issue, because that is where the money is.
    Last edited by vodokar; October 25th, 2016 at 22:48.
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  2. #2
    Got this response.

    "Charles, Patrick, Nick -- I must confess ignorance. I don't know what Fantasy Grounds is, but I will look it up this morning. That said, I have no plans to get into a venture that I know nothing about, but if you fellows think it is excellent, then I should take a look to at least see what it is. "

    I consider that a win. Even if he doesn't do it at this time, he will now be aware that we exist. We can keep working on it from there.
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  3. #3
    Mask_of_winter's Avatar
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    Good luck to you! Let's hope a developer is willing to take on the project.
    Writer for Just Insert Imagination and co-host of the Wild Die Podcast.
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  4. #4
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    As an FYI: Some additional info about Kickstarters and Fantasy Grounds here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...rounds-add-ons


    FG Product Development status: Pathfinder Playtest Ruleset and add-ons: In development. Pathfinder Bestiary, Pathfinder Bestiary 2, Pathfinder Bestiary 3 (in store).

    Private Messages: My inbox is forever filling up with PMs. Please don't send me PMs unless they are actually private/personal messages. General FG questions should be asked in the forums - don't be afraid, the FG community don't bite and you're giving everyone the chance to respond and learn!

  5. #5
    Content for existing and officially supported rulesets is normally cost effective. Rulesets can be an entirely different beast. For those you need someone with technical programming skills, familiarity with the FG model of layered rulesets and some amount of artistic skill to properly skin and theme the interface. If a project has 500 backers, how many of those people want a digital tool to run it locally or online? Are those same people willing to pay an extra, significant amount to get a ruleset built? If not, then it probably won't be enough to appeal to any of our community devs to take it on unless they just so happen to already be a big fan of the property.

    We would love to support as many systems and products as possible. We just need to avoid over committing and under delivering. Because Kickstarter takes people's money up front, I would be very, very reluctant to promise any new rulesets for unless we were doing it internally. Right now, we have too much other work on our plate to even consider adding more unless it is a huge property like Star Wars or Warhammer.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ddavison View Post
    Content for existing and officially supported rulesets is normally cost effective. Rulesets can be an entirely different beast. For those you need someone with technical programming skills, familiarity with the FG model of layered rulesets and some amount of artistic skill to properly skin and theme the interface. If a project has 500 backers, how many of those people want a digital tool to run it locally or online? Are those same people willing to pay an extra, significant amount to get a ruleset built? If not, then it probably won't be enough to appeal to any of our community devs to take it on unless they just so happen to already be a big fan of the property.

    We would love to support as many systems and products as possible. We just need to avoid over committing and under delivering. Because Kickstarter takes people's money up front, I would be very, very reluctant to promise any new rulesets for unless we were doing it internally. Right now, we have too much other work on our plate to even consider adding more unless it is a huge property like Star Wars or Warhammer.
    I know that Mr. Davison. I don't really expect that he is going to actually agree to my request. In fact, his response already virtually states that. But, until we brought it up to him, he didn't even know we existed, so that laid the seeds for possibilities down the road. You just never know. I do know this much. His game is actually quite popular - not Wotc popular, to be sure, but it has a decent following. So, who knows. Even harder than getting someone to make a ruleset is actually getting permission for licensing from the developer. It's taken from very difficult to impossible if the guy doesn't even know what FG is. So, a little getting the name out there can't hurt.
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  7. #7
    If anything, it might be possible for it to become a community supported ruleset provided Jeff Talanian (developer for AS&SH) approved fans putting it together, much like I'm doing with Swords & Wizardry with the approval of Bill Webb & Matt Finch. Let's see how the Kickstarter ends up (it will fund without doubt - it is already 2.5x initial goal) and what comes out of Talanian's initial research into FG. I bet in the long run he'd welcome fan support and community exposure.

    I think the big take away from mentioning it on the Kickstarter thread and getting a response is that he is open to it but doesn't know enough about it currently. Not getting an immediate "No!" is a good start.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhern View Post
    If anything, it might be possible for it to become a community supported ruleset provided Jeff Talanian (developer for AS&SH) approved fans putting it together, much like I'm doing with Swords & Wizardry with the approval of Bill Webb & Matt Finch. Let's see how the Kickstarter ends up (it will fund without doubt - it is already 2.5x initial goal) and what comes out of Talanian's initial research into FG. I bet in the long run he'd welcome fan support and community exposure.

    I think the big take away from mentioning it on the Kickstarter thread and getting a response is that he is open to it but doesn't know enough about it currently. Not getting an immediate "No!" is a good start.
    I decided to take a step further and private messaged Jeffrey offering a) giving him a demo of FG capabilities and b) offering to donate my time and work towards the building of a community ruleset with his permission.

    I know that is a bit presumptuous of me considering that I have not learned yet how to develop for FG and also already committed to doing an AD&D rulesset, but I really felt it was wise to strike while the iron is hot and we have his attention. I have faith in myself that if I want these things badly enough I will find a way to make them happen (albeit with a lot of support from my friends here). I may not be a programmer professionally or even amaturally, but I was a Navy Nuke and have belief that I can find a way to "Nuke It Out" if I put my focus to it.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by vodokar View Post
    I decided to take a step further and private messaged Jeffrey offering a) giving him a demo of FG capabilities and b) offering to donate my time and work towards the building of a community ruleset with his permission.

    I know that is a bit presumptuous of me considering that I have not learned yet how to develop for FG and also already committed to doing an AD&D rulesset, but I really felt it was wise to strike while the iron is hot and we have his attention. I have faith in myself that if I want these things badly enough I will find a way to make them happen (albeit with a lot of support from my friends here). I may not be a programmer professionally or even amaturally, but I was a Navy Nuke and have belief that I can find a way to "Nuke It Out" if I put my focus to it.
    A cautionary word....
    Building a ruleset is likely to take you anywhere from 3months to 3years.
    One thing at a time will get you there faster.

    You dont need an author/publishers permission to build a ruleset - game mechanics cannot be copy protected - but it never hurts.

    You will probably be better off working out the core dice mechanics and if it doesnt exist in MoreCore (for 3.2.0) build a new dice roller to be incorporated... it will be much easier and a much lower load on your time.

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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by damned View Post
    A cautionary word....
    Building a ruleset is likely to take you anywhere from 3months to 3years.
    One thing at a time will get you there faster.

    You dont need an author/publishers permission to build a ruleset - game mechanics cannot be copy protected - but it never hurts.

    You will probably be better off working out the core dice mechanics and if it doesnt exist in MoreCore (for 3.2.0) build a new dice roller to be incorporated... it will be much easier and a much lower load on your time.
    Wise advice, as always. After doing some research, I don't think it will end up being as tough as I first thought, though. AS&SH is a modification of the the AD&D 1e rules. So, I will basically be going from C&C, based on 1e to 1e to AS&SH based on 1e. The modifications to the rules are significant to be certain, but likely the lessons learned doing one project will transfer to the other and it will be doable. Having said that, should I open my mouth and volunteer for one more task before either of these things come to fruition, you have permission to flog me, sir.

    You are right. I don't actually need Jeffries permission to do a community ruleset. But, I would like to have his blessing if I can have it. Keeping him informed in the process, if he is interested, just seems like the proper courtesy to follow.

    Without having done a full review of the rules yet, I won't know the extent of the changes, but here is some that I found in a review at http://www.howlingtower.com/2013/08/...cerers-of.html.

    The Rules

    The rules can be summed up very easily. What you have in the AS&SH rules is a spruced up version of AD&D. The departures are many, small, and mostly improvements.

    A few examples:

    The "Open Doors" and "Bend Bars/Lift Gates" columns from AD&D's Strength table are renamed "Test of" and "Extraordinary Feat of" and extended to the Dexterity and Constitution tables, too.

    Clerics have a percentage change to learn spells similar to magicians.

    Turning undead is done with a d12, and Charisma affects the odds.

    Thief skills advance on a fixed schedule as in AD&D but are rolled on a d12. Having a score of 16+ in the attribute associated with each skill gets you a +1 on the roll.

    AC descends but starts at 9 instead of 10. An interesting twist is that medium armor also blocks 1 point of damage from attacks and heavy armor blocks 2 points.

    XP tables cover levels 1-12. Characters can build strongholds and attract followers at level 9.

    The combat rules give a knowing nod to Chainmail in their handling of weapon classes and first strike capability.

    Combat rounds are 10 seconds, not 1 minute.

    The section on Advanced Combat includes fun options such as disarming, parrying, and shield tricks.

    There is just one saving throw and it's the same for everyone, but each class gets bonuses in specific circumstances and there are further modifiers for high ability scores.

    Characters are unconscious at 0 hps but can be awakened; stable at -1 to -3; dying at -4 to -9 (losing 1 hp/round); and dead at -10.

    XP are awarded for monsters and treasure as usual but also at a discretionary rate for roleplaying, being clever, attaining goals, showing up for the game, and other "soft" achievements, similar to 2nd Edition.

    Task resolution is handled with the "Test of" and "Extraordinary Feat of" columns where the physical attributes are concerned. In other cases, there's a generic table assigning d6 values to simple, moderate, challenging, difficult, and very difficult tasks.
    Last edited by vodokar; October 24th, 2016 at 00:45.
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