ECL and HD Question!

[nix4]

Hiyas, got a question for all you rules lawyers out there...

I have a player in my campaign who is playing a Raptoran.

According to the book they can't fly till they are 5 HD.

However, as a player character im imposing a ECL of 3 on him.

So, will he be able to fly at lvl 5 or 8 ?

Thanks,

[richvalle]

Since it says HD I'd think it would be 8. And ECL of 3 means that at 1 level he is as powerfull as a 4th level character... not that he has that many more hitdice.

rv

[msd]

Since it says HD I'd think it would be 8. And ECL of 3 means that at 1 level he is as powerfull as a 4th level character... not that he has that many more hitdice.

Really?

Seems to me that it should be when he reaches his 5th character level, which would an ECL of 8. At 5th level is when he would have 5 HD, right? Plus, with the adjustment, getting to level 5 is going to be a lonnnnnnnnng time...

[richvalle]

Since it says HD I'd think it would be 8. And ECL of 3 means that at 1 level he is as powerfull as a 4th level character... not that he has that many more hitdice.

Really?

Seems to me that it should be when he reaches his 5th character level, which would an ECL of 8. At 5th level is when he would have 5 HD, right? Plus, with the adjustment, getting to level 5 is going to be a lonnnnnnnnng time...

The thing is... he does not nessisarly have 5 hd at 5th level if he has an ecl of 3. He really only has 1 hd (maybe). But with everything else the character gets he is as effective as 3rd level character.

I think that is how it goes anyway. In the game d20games was running for a while you could be a half-dragon guy with an ecl of +5 and we started at 8th level. My guy was a 8th level halfling figther/sorcer. But if someone else had made a half-dragon fighter he would have been 3rd level. But at 3rd level he could fly and have all kinds of +'s to immunities and have hard skin and a bite attack ect, ect.

I guess where it might be confusing is if there is 'race hitdie' involved. In the dragon example I don't thing they had any. I.e. they were not a 5th level half dragon and a 3rd level fighter.

I could have it wrong but that is the way I think it goes.

rv

[SteveG]

Well, it will depend on when he gets 5HD, if he is any of the standard classes this will occur when he is a 5th level fighter for example. But he will be an 8th level character due to the ECL for purposes of the XP to get the next level.

Character level is the total of all your class levels plus any ECL.
HD are gained each level for most standard and prestige classes.

SteveG

[Geistlinger]

Some ECL races are so powerful they start with levels of like dragon/giant/what have you.

Examples:

A 5th level tiefling mage (ECL+1), would have 5HD, and be considered 6th for character level.

A 5th level troll mage (ECL+5, and 6 levels of giant), would be 11 HD, and be considered 16th for character level.

[nix4]

Well, it will depend on when he gets 5HD, if he is any of the standard classes this will occur when he is a 5th level fighter for example. But he will be an 8th level character due to the ECL for purposes of the XP to get the next level.

Character level is the total of all your class levels plus any ECL.
HD are gained each level for most standard and prestige classes.

SteveG

This seems to make simple sense to me..unless im out of my mind.

5 HD = 5 Character Levels so If the Character is Level 1 (having already accounted for 3 levels of ECL), then at level 5 he can fly. The rest of the party wll be level 8 however, but thats the price of the ECL.

[Zook The Magnificent]

Why would anyone play a raptorian with a +3 ECL adjustment? There is a reason that there is no level adjustment for this race. It is because it does not need it. If anything you can impose a +1 ECL modifier. Compare this to a 3.5 Half-Celestial with a Level Adjustment of +4 in the Monster Manual 1 version 3.5.

This raptorian character is going to die. Do him a favor and ask him what he wants to play next.

[nix4]

Why would anyone play a raptorian with a +3 ECL adjustment? There is a reason that there is no level adjustment for this race. It is because it does not need it. If anything you can impose a +1 ECL modifier. Compare this to a 3.5 Half-Celestial with a Level Adjustment of +4 in the Monster Manual 1 version 3.5.

This raptorian character is going to die. Do him a favor and ask him what he wants to play next.

lol, you should read the abilities they get! Ill point out the two big ones that makes me impose an ECL of 3.
* Flight at level 5 at will..with no duration limitation, average class
* Automatic Feather Fall

Read up on the race, those abilities alone justify the penalty.