How about a "super" license...

[hyphz]

... bought by the GM which then lets players connect with the free client?

It looks like a great system, but having to ask interested people to "pay to play" is going to put everyone off joining in, especially when there's zero-cost competition.

[Aesir]

I sort of agree and posted elsewhere here about it.

I *assume* the target is for obtaining about $120 - $135 a playing group (1 full license for the DM, 4 or 5 'lite' licenses for players). That is a bit high, when put into those terms. It's a valuable program, at least at first take from the demo. But it's harder to justify that expenditure to a broader audience of people.

The net result is that (unless my group's members change their minds) the sale of 2 clients to two of us that wanted to use it... was put off by the other 4 players that don't want to pay $80 between them for it.

[richvalle]

Its funny... I've never thought about purchases per group... just per person. As a group we must have spent $1000+ by now with all the 1st ed., 2nd Ed, 3.0 and 3.5 books. Thats not counting trips to Gencon...

Just out of curiosity... what is the rough average age of your guys groups? Ours is 35+. I'm thinking the $20 is not such a big deal to us at this poing but it would have 15-20 years ago.

rv

[Aesir]

Well, since you asked... we've a good spread of demographics. Some are in the 35+ bracket, w/ young kids and spouses, mortgages, etc. There's a mom-to-be, another is a collegiate.. it's a good spread. There's probably also a good spread of what is termed 'disposable income'.

The point is that there's this group of 5 - 6 people where some are willing to pop 20 for a player's 'lite' license. And some aren't.


So... since I happen to want to use this within the group, I'm voicing opinion and possibly alternate ideas that might (or might not) be attractive alternatives for the FG folks. I think it's worth a shot to ask. The worst that happens is that I get banned from the forums

Here's an idea:
Add the following license option:
server license allowing 5 connections. Price? $50 +/- Additional connections for n amount of $$.

In my group, there's probably be 2 maybe 3 people that would kick in for the price to offset the DM's outlay. Other groups might split it evenly at $10 a pop. Or a rich DM might must buy it outright.

I don't know if this works out for the FG folks. They'd probably get more people paying and playing. And they'd get $50-ish from my little group, instead of... not getting $135 dollars.

Anyway, I toss out the idea to see if it sticks.

[EDITED: Actually, let me turn the question around... what would be (from FG's perspective) a proper price for a server license that allowed 5 or 6 players to connect? If US$50 doesn't cover it, then what amount would?]

[Elric]

I'm not trying to start a 'ProgWar' - but I also recently purchased Klooge.Werks (I plan on using BOTH FG and KW, not everyone has both so I play with who I can) and I like their '4/6-pack' floating license which allows anyone to play your games without them having to buy a license. When they connect, they use up one of the 'floaters' and when your game runs out of licenses, no one else can connect.

People that have actually purchased a client license for themselves can still connect, but those that haven't must rely on using a floater.

Like I said, I'm not trying to start anything - I wouldn't have spent 3 weeks building a ruleset for FG if I wasn't going to use the program.

[Writer@Large]

I think the way FG is priced works out well. Basically, to play online, it costs the price of a standard d20 sourcebook ... or a WOTC Hardcover for the DM. So, that's how I see the purchase: you're buying a new 'book" that gives you the "rules" you need to play online. Sure, in some groups, people share sourcebooks, and it would be nice to have, say, one or two built in "floaters" with the Full version. But I don't see this as too cost-prohibitive.

[richvalle]

Aesir:

Nah, you won't get banned. Others have expressed the same sort of thing. I think it was posted once that SmiteWorks was going to think about doing some other licensing options. They've not commented to much on threads like this and when they do its to indicate they like the pricing where it is at for now. The fact that quite a few threads like this have come up though inditactes it is an issue.

I'm in that ' 35+ bracket, w/ young kids and spouses, mortgages, etc' group. All my friends are playing Worlds of Warcraft at $13 a month $40 for the program. Too rich for me!

Being in that group, this software is perfect for me. When my group was playing (our dm is a on again off again type) he would play once every 2 weeks. I was making less then half the games. Using FG I played in a game for a while that was being run every Monday night and I was able to make every game. Thats a huge differance. It was great... I'd go home from work, eat dinner, help put the kids to bed and then get in the game. We'd play till about 11:00 PM and I'd make it to bed at a decent hour for work the next day. Playing with our group I'd not get home till 1 in the morning or so and to bed around 2 or 3.

I get $20 every 2 weeks as my own. With it I'm trying to get everything needed to run a game... So far I have this software, bought the DMG, MM and just bought Dundjinni mapping software. I'm out of $$ now and still want to buy a couple of modules.


Thanks for the answer... I wasn't trying to be nosey just curious.

Elric:

That does sound like a nice license package. I looked a KloogeWerks a couple of years ago and thought it looked pretty nice. I'm pretty commited to FG now though.

rv

[Ilwan]

Topic has been discussed here also:

https://forums.fantasygrounds.com/viewtopic.php?t=62

[hyphz]

I think the way FG is priced works out well. Basically, to play online, it costs the price of a standard d20 sourcebook ... or a WOTC Hardcover for the DM. So, that's how I see the purchase: you're buying a new 'book" that gives you the "rules" you need to play online. Sure, in some groups, people share sourcebooks, and it would be nice to have, say, one or two built in "floaters" with the Full version. But I don't see this as too cost-prohibitive.

There are two problems with this:

1. In the majority of gaming groups (that I know of, anyway) the players don't buy books. Usually the GM is the one to buy the books, players may then choose to buy them or not. If the players DO buy books, quite often they pool funds and buy a single copy to share.

2. In NONE of those groups do the players buy a book before ever having played the game. Ok, there's the demo module, but it may not be representative of the kind of gaming that the players want to do.

3. Even if they are prepared to pay, not every member of a group necessarily has an RPGNow account or a credit card they're willing to use on the 'net.

4. Requiring global buy-in more or less ties the system to existing gaming groups rather than allowing it to be used to run public games (and likewise there's no matching service). However, typically existing gaming groups are able to game F2F so the only likely use of the software will be to allow for members of the group moving or temporarily time difficulties. Neither of those will lead every other player in the group to want to fork out for software just so that one member's location or time difficulties can be worked around.

I agree that "the pricing is appropriate for the given features" but the problem is that the player license doesn't give the player access to those features, they depend on having the GM allow them to use them as well.

[richvalle]

I think the way FG is priced works out well. Basically, to play online, it costs the price of a standard d20 sourcebook ... or a WOTC Hardcover for the DM. So, that's how I see the purchase: you're buying a new 'book" that gives you the "rules" you need to play online. Sure, in some groups, people share sourcebooks, and it would be nice to have, say, one or two built in "floaters" with the Full version. But I don't see this as too cost-prohibitive.

There are two problems with this:

1. In the majority of gaming groups (that I know of, anyway) the players don't buy books. Usually the GM is the one to buy the books, players may then choose to buy them or not. If the players DO buy books, quite often they pool funds and buy a single copy to share.

2. In NONE of those groups do the players buy a book before ever having played the game. Ok, there's the demo module, but it may not be representative of the kind of gaming that the players want to do.

3. Even if they are prepared to pay, not every member of a group necessarily has an RPGNow account or a credit card they're willing to use on the 'net.

4. Requiring global buy-in more or less ties the system to existing gaming groups rather than allowing it to be used to run public games (and likewise there's no matching service). However, typically existing gaming groups are able to game F2F so the only likely use of the software will be to allow for members of the group moving or temporarily time difficulties. Neither of those will lead every other player in the group to want to fork out for software just so that one member's location or time difficulties can be worked around.

I agree that "the pricing is appropriate for the given features" but the problem is that the player license doesn't give the player access to those features, they depend on having the GM allow them to use them as well.

Hello hyphz!

I'll just put the numbers you used above and make comments.

1. The groups I've been in every player buys their own books. Its bad enough that the dm has to buy more books without putting the burden of supplying the players with all their information/access to their books all the time.

2. We've bought games/books 'blind' before. Sometimes someone in our group wants to try another game and we just buy and play. We've alwasy gone back to Dnd for some reason though.

3. The ones with this problem could get someone else to buy the game and pay them back. Not a big deal.

4. I think as more people buy the software more public games and non-f2f gaming groups will form. A f2f group would have to deside if they want to guy the software to help out one person or not. If its going to be a temperary thing its probably not worth it. If someone is moving to another city it may be. Also it should not be a huge problem if some of the group buys the software and some do not as long as the ones that do are a big enough group to have a game. Maybe the dm could run 1 game in 3 on FG (to include the person with the time/distance problem) and the rest face to face. That way everyone could play at least some of the time.

If you guys are willing to open up your fg game to other players you could then become one of the 'open' games for the rest of us!

rv