Tiamat and Takhisis

**Niles** · June 23rd, 2015, 22:05

Don't know if anyone's asked this...but is the Rise of Tiamat intended to be the 5e version of Dragonlance? I know they're set in different worlds but can't help but notice the comparison between Tiamat and Takhisis.

**Xorn** · June 23rd, 2015, 22:36

Well, according to Weiss & Hickman, she is not Tiamat.

However Tiamat, a five-headed chromatic dragon of each color, was introduced in the Greyhawk supplement for 0E D&D in 1975 (though she wasn't named Tiamat yet, just "The Chromatic Dragon" and "The Dragon Queen". In 1977 she was published in the 1E MM and has been there ever since.

Weiss & Hickman created Dragonlance in 1982, and Tahkisis has the same draconic description as Tiamat. However that's just one form she takes, being the head of the dark pantheon in that world. The D&D Tiamat got her name from a Babylonian goddess (who was much different). Jeff Grub (who worked on Dragonlance) said that yes, Tahkisis is Tiamat, but again Weiss & Hickman say no.

I would personally say that Tiamat was the inspiration for Tahkisis. In D&D, Bahamut & Tiamat are the king/queen of dragons. In Dragonlance, Paladine & Tahkisis are the supreme deities of good and evil; I feel like the started with the former and they evolved into the latter.

**merlinpaladin** · June 24th, 2015, 11:57

It says the two are the same in the dmg. I was just reading it last night that's just the name they use on dragonlance setting

**Xorn** · June 24th, 2015, 13:37

I'm pretty sure Weiss & Hickman would still say they are not the same.

**WhtZombie** · June 24th, 2015, 14:13

WotC monster mythology indicates they are one and the same. "... both Bahamut and Tiamat appeared prominently in the Dragonlance Chronicles adventures (1984–1986) under the new names of Paladine and Takhisis." I am thinking since WotC owns the IP for DnD one can safely assume they are the same.
Reference: https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/fea...ster-mythology

**epithet** · June 24th, 2015, 15:17

Originally Posted by Xorn

I'm pretty sure Weiss & Hickman would still say they are not the same.

I am reminded of "This is not a pipe." They're obviously the same.

**Karykzen** · June 24th, 2015, 18:46

Wikipedia does a good job too on the discussion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiamat...%26_Dragons%29

**No1Sciguy** · June 25th, 2015, 06:24

All that being said, from what I've seen of it (I haven't run it yet) it looks like you could easily port this over to Krynn. All the elements and the feel of Krynn are clearly there. Tiamat, Draconians, Dragon cults, flying castles, etc. Change some locations and NPC's, stick in some Kender (oh boy) and you would be all set.

**demonsbane** · June 26th, 2015, 00:04

Essentially Takhisis is the name for Tiamat in the world of Krynn, in which there are specific connotations, happenings and tales around this entity, that aren't applicable to other settings.

**Zeus** · June 28th, 2015, 11:09

I would agree with the Xorn, Weiss and Hickman interpretation.

Whilst they share common characteristics (they are dragons) they are sufficently different.

Bahumat/Tiamat are Dragon King/Queen with dominion over Dragons in campaign worlds that include non Draconic deities i.e. Greyhawk/Mystara
Paladine/Takhisis are Dragon Deities (Good/Evil) in the world of Krynn with dominion over draconic and non-draconic races

Under 5E I would look at it from a personality/trait perspective, each NPC has its own motivations, goals and aspirations - not to mention slightly different abilities. Would Tiamat's goals 100% align with those of Takhisis'? Or would Bahumat's personality mirror Paladine's?

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