Still being developed?

[Tidalwave0089]

Ok, I just gave /importchar a try. I guess I need specific instructions. I made a character with M&M rule set in the manage character section named Zombo. There is a Characters folder in the data folder for FG with a sub folder for M&M, but he's not in there. Just a XML files for hotkeys and module state, I tried those nothing happened, Zombo was not imported so this doesn't seem to work. If it's gonna be this confusing and complicated maybe this should come with a special manual.

Is the portrait button something only players can see? I SEE no portrait button except in Manage Character mode.

This seems to be working, though again I only know from 3.0, which is what everyone is teaching to use. Without warnings we shouldn't have to learn both old and new commands if you're a new person. I take it you've been here awhile, you've used 2.0, I haven't so with no specific manual to teach me this one I have no way at all to know this, all the featured tutorials I watched mostly teach about the button functions, and again as above the /importchar command doesn't do anything, where's my character?

While I still maintain for the price we've paid for this we should get the same level of service and quality other sets get (even the included ones), this makes a difference to me, and finally makes this manageable. I'm still extremely confused about other things, but at least now I can use this for the intended purpose, but it still should be addressed.

Alright, that one solves my issue more or less there. I have no way of knowing what a player can and can't do yet. I have only been working with it in GM mode and when I tried to open a second copy to join my first one as a play, as the person in the tutorial did, the program told me I couldn't because they had the same product code, but if you say that GM created notes and story elements can't be edited by players then that solves that.

/export did appear to do it's function, though I'll admit I didn't save and test it to see if I could load it into another campaign...hmm, maybe I should do that...

Same as above

I guess I'm going to have to do that, expect someone else to teach me the ways of 2.0 and make a vid maybe, rather than expect to get the same service others are getting? while I'm grateful for that you've pointed out, I stand by my point and have more than shown that as a new person this sort of no warning/lack of upkeep has caused confusion and frustration where there didn't have to be and now either I have to try and get others to help me make up for that or wait til they decide to do something that should have just been default to begin with. Either way I do have serious worries about continuing to spend anymore money on Smite Works projects if they have no expectation of service or the like, to be fair.

[Trenloe]

Re manage characters - see how I describe it in my previous post. /importchar is only used for importing a PC into a campaign that has been exported with /exportchar

Start another instance of FG and "Join game" with a host address of localhost - this will allow you to see the players view, and select a PC from the local cache (produced with manage characters).

In the end, anyone who comes to Fantasy Grounds has to go through a learning curve - and appreciate that different rulesets do things differently. A lot of what you mention above is not "the FG 2.0 way" of doing it (nor "the old way"), it another way of doing it and is completely supported in FG 3.0 and documented in the user guides: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/...hp/User_Guides

[Tidalwave0089]

See, this still isn't making any sense to me. I tried /exportchar, but it doesn't show me the character I made in this campaign (Tammy) in order to export her. So I have no idea what you're talking about. You make it sound so simple but it's starting to sound like we're somehow using different programs.

Thank you for that. This will help me see things better, I can't understand why that version can see the portrait button and it could see Zombo, but I couldn't and couldn't make use of him and I'M the GM, I need it more than my players do, wouldn't you think so? I don't see the point to some of these build choices. I had the player version pic Zombo, Now I can see him and work with it, but why couldn't I just load it in from before and work on it as a GM? That's my job. It makes me wonder whats the entire point of a Manage Characters mode if won't let me load characters into a campaign as the GM.

Again, if this was updated the way some others are then it wouldn't be as confusing nor require me seek out more and more info and guidance. If it was updated and as clear as Core is (where the videos I watched showed me how to use it) my group would have been playing over a week ago.

[Trenloe]

It makes me wonder whats the entire point of a Manage Characters mode if won't let me load characters into a campaign as the GM.

Manage Characters is a player specific piece of functionality that is designed to be used by a player outside of the campaign - i.e. when the GM is not online and the player is not connected to the GM. It allows them to create characters, update their character from a previous game, etc.. Then, when they login to a campaign with the same ruleset as they worked on in Manage Characters the player will be given the option to load their characters from their "manage characters" local cache - which will be shown as "local server" in the character selection window.

There is no need for the GM to have this functionality as they have complete access to all of the PCs in any specific campaign by clicking the "Characters" icon in the top right. The GM can export PCs from a specific campaign using the /exportchar command - if there is not a PC name added to this command then all PCs in the campaign will be exported. The export is in the form of an XML file - it does not go to manage characters, so remember where you saved the file in the "Save As" window that appeared. You can then use this XML file to import the character/s into another campaign (using the /importchar command and selecting the XML file in the "Open" window that appears) or send it to another GM and they can import the PCs in the XML file into their campaign.

Manage characters is very handy for those players who have not bought the M&M ruleset. If they have connected to an M&M campaign in the past, they can use Manage Characters to connect to the player "cache" of that campaign (stored locally on their computer) and check their PC, add experience, make changes, etc. out of game - without the need to connect to the GM. Then, when they next connect to a M&M game they can select this "local server" version of their PC to play with.

I'll reiterate - the GM has no need for this as they have full access to the campaign. In addition, some players who own the M&M ruleset themselves might not use Manage Characters at all and might build and maintain their PCs within a campaign and use /exportchar to send their PC XML to the GM before a game and /importchar to load up their most recent PC after a game.

[Tidalwave0089]

Thank you, that actually finally makes this whole thing a lot more clear for me.

I'm still sticking by my original point, however. This is a full retail module at full price with no warnings about it's actual version. It creates confusion and lacks the increasing ease of 3.0 functions, and is an additional cost on top of the FG price itself. If other rule sets, even the free included ones, are worthy of update, then ALL rule sets especially the ones that come at an additional cost should be updated, it sends a rude message about the value of some peoples money or worth over others, it's unprofessional and frankly doesn't do them any favors. That's how I feel about this topic, that's where I stand, these work arounds will work for now but there's no reason why the extra money we spent on this should not earn us the same level of service others have gotten. And that's where I stand on that.

[damned]

Hi @Tidalwave0089 - unless the ruleset is updated to be CoreRPG based you wont see these features. There are other rulesets that also dont have these features. If you really find it doesnt work for you contact [email protected] and see if they will give you a refund.
The message you are getting might be disappointing but its not rude. Many companies dont provide any updates to products once they have been purchased, others do if you maintain a support agreement, and others do provide updates for a limited period of time. When you contact support perhaps suggest that they add a note to the older rulesets pointing out they are not CoreRPG based.
Savage Worlds is one of the most popular rulesets here and it does not have CoreRPG support today. I believe that project is being worked on by community devs and it is a huge undertaking.
Smiteworks is a small team and they have finite resources so not everything can always be done. To date every upgrade to Fantasy Grounds itself has been free to license holders - not just incremental updates but all updates.
Send the email and voice your concerns and see what outcome you get.
No one is fobbing you off we just dont have the answers you are looking for.

[Tidalwave0089]

I might see your point, except they've sent a precedent that some will be updated and others not, and yes that is rude without disclaimers, maybe you don't feel that way but I do. The reason why I even bothered to say anything about it here was cause I cared enough to see things improve, I didn't come here to about a refund.

[Moon Wizard]

We would love to update every ruleset to use the latest CoreRPG framework provided with v3.0.

Every ruleset we sell in the store had a developer who built the ruleset at some point, and we depend on them to keep them up to date. However, economically it doesn't always make sense for people to spend their time that way, since this is a hobby effort all around. Usually just enough money to keep people creating new stuff, if that.

The whole reason for the CoreRPG ruleset and the developer layering was to enable better updating going forward. It was all in response to users voicing similar concerns before. Now, we need the community devs to help us bring it forward. If I wasn't so busy finishing v3.0.4 and trying to get us up on Steam to increase our user base, I would be working on bringing some of the older rulesets into the CoreRPG layer we built. It's always been the challenge of new users/features vs maintenance/docs with a minimal team.

As damned mentioned, we're a 2 person company doing this as a part time effort. The ones that were converted are mostly D&D or Pathfinder, which own the majority of the market. The other 2 converted so far were done by me to help ensure that the CoreRPG was flexible enough to support other systems.

I'm not making excuses, just laying out the decisions that we have to make to keep the company moving. At the end of the day, we have to balance all the factors.

Our long term plan is to migrate all rulesets to use the new CoreRPG layer, but how long that takes will depend on community involvement in that effort.

Regards,
JPG

[damned]

Hey Moon Wizard - would it be worthwhile adding a note to the ruleset descriptions saying if they are CoreRPG rulesets or not?

[Moon Wizard]

Perhaps. I'll flag it to Doug, who manages the store.

JPG