Still being developed?

[Trenloe]

You can't move or resize the chat or modifier window, you can't set the tokens to scale to the map. ... Note I'm not asking for a rule update or new books added, just that basic functions be brought up to date.

These items you mention were only brought into mainstream FG rulesets in FG 3.0. Most GMs have been using Fantasy Grounds for ages without this new cosmetic functionality.

FYI - you can set token scaling on the map by zooming in to the point that a token is the right scale on the map (zooming the map does not zoom the token), then right-click on the token and select "lock token scale", then zoom out again and the token scale will be locked at the ratio you selected.

As far as usability goes it's almost pointless to use the set except that it might understand the rules of the game.

That's a very strong statement to make. The 2 of the 3 items you list above are very cosmetic, with the third being alleviated by "lock token scale". Is it really "almost pointless" using this ruleset because you can't move or scale the chat window and modifier box? That would mean that it was "almost pointless" using any ruleset before FG 3.0 was released, right?

I just think you need to spend a little bit of time getting used to how the ruleset works, taking into account the pre FG 3.0 functionality. Most GMs who are familiar with pre FG 3.0 rulesets don't have an issue using the M&M ruleset.

Yes, it would be nice to have this ruleset have all of the CoreRPG FG 3.0 bells and whistles. Yes it would be nice for a developer to support this ruleset into the future.

But there is nothing "broken" in this ruleset as it stands today.

[viresanimi]

But there is nothing "broken" in this ruleset as it stands today.

True! But a little love for the ruleset would still be nice. Cause I like it a lot.


Vires Animi

[Tidalwave0089]

Just as my previous comment is my opinion, this is yours.

I am a new customer and as such every tutorial that's out there is for some instance of the CURRENT product, which is 3.0. I have NO experience with 2.0 only with the current product and that's what I'm addressing here, that it needs to be brought up to date. That's the point, that it's OUT of date and needs to be addressed rather than ignored cause it doesn't matter to everyone. I paid for my product and rule sets like everyone else and I should be able to get the same level of customer service others are able to get.

With all due respect I don't care what "most" GM's are doing or handling it. They've been at it for awhile. I'm new and all it's doing is confusing me more. I can't even figure out where "Manage Local characters" is saved. I made a character but have NO button in import it into a campaign, nor can I find the folder he's in so I can just move him into the campaign. The websites manual itself isn't even up to date, and now to my surprise it turns out full retail rule sets aren't maintained either. It's quite a bit disrespectful to update some rules for some and not for others, as if the money I've spent so far isn't equal to others or worth the attention. I came into this really excited about FG, I even went out and bought Hero Labs just to work along side it (which in and of itself isn't working out either as, maybe due to the same issues, M&M HL characters can't be converted to FG as far as I've seen from the tutorial videos I've watched.)

As for the comment of it being a cosmetic function, I highly disagree as it's too useful on the whole to call is cosmetic. cosmetic is just for looks or show, having tokens not take over the map, I can't imagine anything more necessary to the very point of FG than that, and after watching the vids on the wiki, being taught how to use this program through CoreRPG, version 3.0.2, it's pretty jarring to find the product I paid extra for to play my game and run it for others runs extremely different from the rest, and not by style (like pictures on the buttons or what they are called) but basic functions every module should have access to. It's not limited to the ones I mentioned, those were just fresh on my mind, someone else mentioned you can't lock formatting, and I just noticed the character section has no import function in a campaign. I'm sure there's more that makes it different that justifies the attention to paying customers. We deserve the same value for our money others get too.

To you personally, thank you for informing me of that work around. While useful, not all tokens are created equal, so since you can't lock each token seperately, it often leaves some tokens just right and others twice as tiny, this especially pertains to the ones included with this rule set.

As for the other two, actually yes I find the chat window TOO big for my needs. My screen is only so big and it's in the way sometimes, in fact since me and my players use skype we will barely use it other than dice rolls. But it's not the only ones, I've been fiddling with it since I typed this up and to make a point images added for map use can't be resized either as they can in others, this is also a hassle and frustrating for new customers getting used to a program that's been changed but some parts ignored. Again I'm sure there are other things missing from it added since 3.0 and there's every reason to expect the same level of service for the money I've spent as others have.

I'm glad "most" GM's who have been playing before 3.0 are used to these issues, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed and addressed. I shouldn't have to, as a new customer, learn how to deal with both 2.0 and 3.0 set ups since the over all product has been updated. This wasn't a free rule set, it was full price, I didn't see any disclaimer that it was old and not up to date, nor that it wouldn't be, so I had no reason to think it wasn't and I'm sure others here feel the same. You may not care or don't see a problem with it, but we've paid our cash just like others and we deserve the same level of service the others have gotten. Maybe it can't happen soon, but this and other ignored rule sets should be updated.

[Trenloe]

Fair enough, Tidalwave0089, I agree with the majority of what you are saying. I just get defensive when people use phrases such as "it's almost pointless to use the set" when, actually, it is far from being pointless - especially when the reasons being stated are, IMHO, pretty minor compared to the HUGE set of features that the ruleset actually comes with. In case you may have forgotten:

Basic Ruleset functionality:

- Custom skin and theme
- Character Sheet - with drag and drop support and auto-roll functionality for numerous checks
- Combat Tracker - to facilitate combat and track NPC and PC health and conditions
- Fights - combine multiple NPCs into a Fight encounter ahead of time
- NPCs - drag them from a supported library module or create your own for use in stories or fights
- Screens - place any image from the web or from a module into your campaign image folder for use in a story or to share with players when the time is right
- Notes - track important details as your campaign unfolds
- Story - create your own story outline and links to other stories, NPCs, fights or images or follow along with a pre-made store-bought module when they become available. Export your module for others to play.
- The Net - access your Hero's Handbook or other home-made or store-bought modules when they become available
- Token box - store any token images you find into your campaign token folder or within your general fantasy grounds token folder and link those with your NPCs and Player characters for use on maps. You can build your own or purchase them from the Fantasy Grounds store for activation within your campaign. Search the forums for lots of free and useful tokens and tips on making your own.

[viresanimi]

I can certainly understand the sentiment, that one would want the ruleset to be as updated and have as many functions as others. On the other hand what we are "entitled" to is a ruleset that works. Which is does! If it was fundamentally broken, then I would agree.

By the way, you can resize images in M&M. Hold CTRL down and mouse click / drag for a new size. This is a basic function in FG I believe. However the ruleset cannot reset to an image's original size. Again. Would be nice to have. But strictly not necessary.


Vires Animi

[Tidalwave0089]

To make it clear, when I say "almost pointless" I mean it from two viewpoints.

#1. For two years I've been running Mekton Zeta campaigns online for my friends over skype. They did their character sheets in Windows Paint, I hand drew some shitty maps (not an artist by hand) to give them basic room ideas and we ran the story by voice and our meh math skills with rolls. I viewed this program as a step up from that, a major boost, but with missing features mounting it slowly loses some of the points that make it better than not having it.

#2. What does it actually have to entice me to USE this rule set (outside of the 18 dollars it cost me and would be a complete waste to now ignore it) over say, loading up Core, adding my maps and tokens, and just having everyone use their sheets in Adobe, Paint, or Hero Labs, hell hero labs can allow me to make mid game adjustments and create encounters that look like they take care of most in combat stuff on the fly as I add info (I still have a lot to learn about HL, but it's promising) to run the game?

For me I care about the principle of it. This is just the sort of digital project you come into expecting maintenance on as long as it's still active and especially if you pay for it, but I also come at this because I care about function over looks. The issues I mentioned, even moving windows and sizing tokens to work on map grids is not cosmetic, it's the very point of a visual map set up like this. Heck, that's the only thing this has over what we were doing before, that everyone can see the map, where they are on it, and some automation of the rules, so it's annoying to me that they aren't addressing those issues and disrespectful to me they have done so for others.

As for what you mention, I haven't forgotten them, let's look at them though:

- Custom skin and theme = This is what I would consider cosmetic. In some cases it's even confusing, there aren't as many buttons and they aren't all in the same places (uniformity helps people get into something and transition between them) for instance we have a "fights" button the others I've looked don't but NO "items" button.

- Character Sheet - Useful but there's no way to import from "Manage Characters" so this and the NPC's page lose usefulness since that means I have to create everything in each campaign and if I have recurring characters I have to do it all over again from scratch making what was meant to make the game more simple (by making the work more digital) a hassle, if I'm missing something it's not touched on anywhere I've seen and NOT apparent. Also I see no way to access portraits like in Core.

- Combat Tracker - very useful

- Fights - Useful but still suffers from the import issues

- NPCs - same as above.

- Screens - what I consider the main sticking point of these sort of programs, but there is a need to be able to resize tokens and even the whole map still, which this rule set can't do. Also it seems limited on what " from a module " can get you as I can't just access any module I have, just saying, but not as big a deal.

- Notes - Useful but you can't lock the text

- Story - Not sure how to approach this one. Useful, but we've already established there aren't going to be more, so that no longer matters, and I see export modules for others to play. I could go on to say how these things, at least the first one, seem more like false advertisement, but really all I want is a function update, not a refund.

- The Net - See above

- Token box - This is maybe the only thing that works like it does everywhere else.

All I'm asking for is an update to current functionality for the money we've spent.

[Tidalwave0089]

First off thank you for pointing out holding CTRL can do that, that helps me a lot, but that's more to my point. As a new user I don't know all these tricks to using it old style and the tutorials I've gone through were for 3.0 functions, and why wouldn't I, that's what I bought. I did not, however, know my new rule set wouldn't be and it needs to.

As for "entitled to" I agree and disagree, if there was a warning it was old and not up to date, then my comments would be more in line of "would be nice," but I bought 3.0, I bought a rule set for FG, had every reason to think it was FOR 3.0, turns out it's not. If other rule sets are "entitled" to updates, then so should we. If 3.5 and Core, which come with it free of extra charge, are updated then surely a rule set you had to pay extra for should be just as "entitled" if not more so, to update.

As for the rule sets actual functions, I can't comment as we haven't started playing it yet so I couldn't say the rule set works or don't work, but what isn't updated is bothersome and has created more hassle in making my story work than it's taken out of it.

I can certainly understand the sentiment, that one would want the ruleset to be as updated and have as many functions as others. On the other hand what we are "entitled" to is a ruleset that works. Which is does! If it was fundamentally broken, then I would agree.

By the way, you can resize images in M&M. Hold CTRL down and mouse click / drag for a new size. This is a basic function in FG I believe. However the ruleset cannot reset to an image's original size. Again. Would be nice to have. But strictly not necessary.


Vires Animi

[viresanimi]

Having bought the d20 modern myself - which is in a far worse state than M&M in my opinion - it might be an idea, that rulesets should have a tag in the store, which displays what version of Fantasy Grounds it is updated for. Just an idea.

Vires Animi

[Tidalwave0089]

I agree with this, while it's just more respectful and professional to just update them function wise, this would at least solve some issues for new users. However I'd go one step forward and suggest that they might consider a price discount for them as well, especially if it's basically not going to be added to or maintained. And I'm sorry to hear d20 is worse off, but I'll also take that as a warning. Hopefully some positive customer support can come of this thread and both this, d20 modern, and maybe the others can have basic function updates. I care much less about adding books and rules to it than I do it just working like the rest.

[Trenloe]

- Character Sheet - Useful but there's no way to import from "Manage Characters" so this and the NPC's page lose usefulness since that means I have to create everything in each campaign and if I have recurring characters I have to do it all over again from scratch making what was meant to make the game more simple (by making the work more digital) a hassle, if I'm missing something it's not touched on anywhere I've seen and NOT apparent.

This works *exactly* like it does in CoreRPG 3.0. Manage Characters is a player functionality. It stores the PC details locally on their computer and when they login to a game and go to "Characters" they will see their PCs stored locally in the "Character Selection" window as "local character" - the player selects this character and the details are transferred from the player to the GM and inserted into the campaign.

Once a PC is within a campaign the GM can use the /exportchar command to export that PC XML and then the /importchar command to import into another campaign. Just like you can do in FG 3.0.

Also I see no way to access portraits like in Core.

The player can assign the portrait by clicking the portrait button and double-clicking an a portrait - the portrait selected will be assigned to the currently active PC.

- NPCs - same as above.

Export NPCs (personalities) to a module using the /export command. Open such a module in a campaign through the "Module Activation" window. This is the same in FG 3.0.

- Screens - what I consider the main sticking point of these sort of programs, but there is a need to be able to resize tokens and even the whole map still, which this rule set can't do. Also it seems limited on what " from a module " can get you as I can't just access any module I have, just saying, but not as big a deal.

Resize tokens by using the "lock token scale" as mentioned before, or use CTRL+MouseWheel on a specific token (either on the map or on the token indicator on the combat tracker) to change that token's individual "zoom" level.
You can resize a map as viresanimi says above. Hole CTRL and left-click within a map, drag to the right/bottom to resize out, drag to the left/top to resize in.

- Notes - Useful but you can't lock the text

Only a GM can edit a note that they create - even if they share it with the players. A note owner (the person who created it) can edit a note.

This is very similar to the Core 3.0 functionality. The only difference in 3.0 is that the GM can lock a player note to stop a player editing a note that they've already created. Personally, I would use this piece of functionality very rarely - I'd let a player have full editing freedom over a note they'd created.

- Story - Not sure how to approach this one. Useful, but we've already established there aren't going to be more, so that no longer matters, and I see export modules for others to play. I could go on to say how these things, at least the first one, seem more like false advertisement, but really all I want is a function update, not a refund.

This is describing the standard "story" entry functionality available in *all* FG rulesets - just the same as CoreRPG 3.0. Yes, there probably won't be any pre-made modules in the store for M&M (but you never know), but all of the other functionality is available as described - including exporting modules for others to play. Type /export in the chat window.

- The Net - See above

You or other community members can make your own modules (copyright allowing). Type /export in the chat window.

See the FG 3.0 user guide in the wiki for other "slash" commands you can use in the chat window: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/.../Chat_Commands

All I'm asking for is an update to current functionality for the money we've spent.

The only thing I see "missing" is move/resize chat window and modifier box, and the auto token sizing when a token is added to a map with a grid - but there are 2 other ways to resize tokens.

If you have other areas that you are not familiar with I suggest you start a new thread in this forum to get clarification on how to use this ruleset to its full potential.