SavageWorlds4 -- is it going to ever happen?

[Ikael]

This is an interesting and key point.

I have been learning CoreRPG by looking at Castles and Crusades (which may players have shifted to for a while) and formulating how to migrate SavageWorlds onto CoreRPG whilst maintaining backwards compatibility with pre-existing data (e.g. for adventure modules) and code (e.g. for extensions and themes). Some breaks will have to happen to get onto CoreRPG, of course, but this needs to be as small and manageable set as possible.

Basically there would be no point writing a SavageWorlds ruleset on top of CoreRPG if it broke most published code / data for the ruleset, as we couldn't (and wouldn't) ever publish it.

I think, given some little bugs that still exist in the existing version, I was planning to have to keep a small branch for another "non-CoreRPG" version, but this will be for bugfixes and any code refactoring WITHOUT breaking compatibility, to bring the code closer to CoreRPG. The other branch of code would be one where the breaking changes happen, and these will need to be well-documented so extensions can be more easily ported without a lot of guesswork and experimentation, which I feel is what's happened in the past.

Happy to get involved in an e-mail chat about what's going on, if people would prefer. I know Aki is doing a lot of work on this, and really hope it's something we can use in the next version. Equally I know Kevin has a longer history on the SavageWorlds ruleset then even myself, and I also have a couple of other people keen to help out with a new version, but that would need some co-ordination and process, which may or may not be something we can achieve.

Ben (-PW-)

I want to point out that I am not attempting to break compatibility, I am attempting to find key points which BREAKS the compatibility. For far, I have marked only few existing SW ruleset templates, windowclasses, fonts and frames as NOT USED (Let them come from CoreRPG). My plan is to do this as much to make the ruleset look very much (if not 100%) alike with CoreRPG, thereafter it's easier to spot what are the points in original ruleset that could be used as-they-now-are. Remember that when doing this migration, there is also another points: If the new migrated ruleset doesn't follow CoreRPG's ways then there is no sense the make migration at all either, because updates on CoreRPG will "break" it anyways or they don't have any effect what-so-ever. In my personal view two important things to consider is: WHAT SHOULD BE DONE and WHAT COULD BE DONE (but won't be done due to overhead of work or extreme compatibility breaking).

I am planning to give screenshot about the ruleset when frames are not replaces with CoreRPG ones. They are not that pretty since CoreRPG changes the layouting significantly in some cases.

Graphics is one thing that I am very concerned with. CoreRPG introduces different layouting which means different framedefs and incompatible graphics in SW, but if they are not respected then I suspect that SW ruleset will get "graphically broken" when CoreRPG updates in sense of layouting, and it will cause work to developers. But well, I cannot be 100% yet, but it's my concern, and I know Kevin's pain in this aspect: To kill or not to kill something you have done before :/ This migration work is more about finding suitable balance.

[phantomwhale]

Thanks for the reply Aki - it's still an early stage of discovery on this work, and your effort is very appreciated.

[Ikael]

Thanks for the reply Aki - it's still an early stage of discovery on this work, and your effort is very appreciated.

I sent you PM.

This is my fourth attempt to do migration. I have done tried different approaches how to make the migration work (start from the scratch, start from the top, start in the middle~ hit, break & fix way) but this current one is the most efficient and makes the changes much more easier to check.

[Doswelk]

I want to point out that I am not attempting to break compatibility, I am attempting to find key points which BREAKS the compatibility. For far, I have marked only few existing SW ruleset templates, windowclasses, fonts and frames as NOT USED (Let them come from CoreRPG). My plan is to do this as much to make the ruleset look very much (if not 100%) alike with CoreRPG, thereafter it's easier to spot what are the points in original ruleset that could be used as-they-now-are. Remember that when doing this migration, there is also another points: If the new migrated ruleset doesn't follow CoreRPG's ways then there is no sense the make migration at all either, because updates on CoreRPG will "break" it anyways or they don't have any effect what-so-ever. In my personal view two important things to consider is: WHAT SHOULD BE DONE and WHAT COULD BE DONE (but won't be done due to overhead of work or extreme compatibility breaking).

I am planning to give screenshot about the ruleset when frames are not replaces with CoreRPG ones. They are not that pretty since CoreRPG changes the layouting significantly in some cases.

Graphics is one thing that I am very concerned with. CoreRPG introduces different layouting which means different framedefs and incompatible graphics in SW, but if they are not respected then I suspect that SW ruleset will get "graphically broken" when CoreRPG updates in sense of layouting, and it will cause work to developers. But well, I cannot be 100% yet, but it's my concern, and I know Kevin's pain in this aspect: To kill or not to kill something you have done before :/ This migration work is more about finding suitable balance.

For the record I did not think you were, it was just worrying seeing all those non-SW themed windows, I know we will cope we three always do

[Ikael]

So far I have been able to migrate following parts of SW to use CoreRPG:

• Stories
• Images
• Items
• Parcels (NEW!)
• Notes
• Module Activation
• Library
• Tokenbag
• Modifers
• Light-mood selection
• Pointer-color selection
• Portrait selection
• Tables (NEW!)
• Calendar (NEW!)
• Party sheet (NEW!)
• Options
• Combat
• Dicetower
• NPC Listing
• Vehicle Listing

[Ikael]

just to let people know, this project has been actively progressed onwards and I think that there is not much more migration work left that really needs to be done. Of course migration could be done until the world ends, but that doesn't make sense. My personal next phase is to start using current version for actual playtesting.