Season 5 Chronicle sheets discussion

[Skellan]

Actually, now I think about it, I think we are making this process more difficult than it needs to be, and more difficult than the process is in the society guide requires. It is the players responsibility to make sure they have a complete, up-to-date and fully completed set of chronicle sheets. Should we really be asking for the previous chronicle? You can't really check the accuracy of one chronicle without the information from the preceding chronicles.
In terms of checking character before play, the society guide says:
It is recommended that you look over each player’s
character sheet and previous Chronicle sheets, quickly
checking wealth, equipment, calculations, and so on if
time permits.
Would we be better giving characters a check-over outside of the constraints of running a scenario?

[Nickademus]

The majority of GMs that I've seen outside of this FG community don't look at chronicles at all (except for me and that was seen by players as a waste of game time). I was quite surprised that you do. I also get the impression from the Paizo forums that most convention GMs don't look either.

It may be that there are more cheats on the internet than are willing to pay to go to a convention or are willing to show their face at a local game store, but I don't think that checking chronicles matters at all. (Well, I think it matters greatly, but the reason it matters has been swept under the rug at Paizo so meh.)

Seeing as how the GM Responsibilities changed from Guide 3.0.2 (and from what I hear Season 4 as well) saying "Look over each player's...." to Guide 5.0 saying "It is recommended that you look over each player's...", I think Paizo is caring less and less about this as well.

[Malkavian_Andi]

There's also still the option of asking a player for a character audit if the GM thinks the numbers are strange. For example, if a character owns a particularly rare or powerful item, a GM might ask for the chronicle that lists that item as available as well as the chronicle that lists purchase of that item. Or in case of a particularly high skill modifier, the player could be asked to list all abilities and items that grant a bonus (and of course provide the chronicles that list purchase of those items).

[Skellan]

I think it is important to check but not at the expense of giving gms unnecessary work. I suspect reducing admin is Paizos intent rather than notcaring.The level of admin gms have to do for pfs does put some people off.
We all want accurate chronicles and characters. Perhaps spot checking characters is a way to do this, or the only way to do this properly

[Blackfoot]

Honestly, the previous chronicle thing just makes it easier for me to fill out the Chronicles. I don't want to be responsible for giving anyone a Chronicle that is wrong. The more accurate information is that I am given, the more accurate the information I can give back. Garbage in, garbage out.

And.. the previous chronicles make it simple.. you just copy the info from the previous chronicle and add the new stuff... you're done. For dudes without previous chronicles you have to sift through all sorts of other stuff or wind up with missing information when you go to actually put the chronicles together, the easiest chronicles are the ones where you have ALL the info right there in front of you. Wham Bam.. you're done.. Clear and easy to read info is the best. I'm not sure why this is an issue for anyone.

[Skellan]

I have run 27 pfs sessions online, if we say an average of 5 players are in each session, that's 135 chronicles. Trust me, there was no wham bam, about it hehe. There's also the issue of adding items bought and stuff. Having the previous chronicles do not make it simple. It takes time. Having just the last chronicle sheet is no guarantee you are doing your chronicle right. You need to look at them all to be sure of that.
All I am suggesting is that we adhere to the rules as set out in the society guide. I don't mind doing the admin but I am not doing unnecessary admin.

[Trenloe]

I really don't think that asking each player for an electronic copy/digital photo of their last chronicle is such an obstacle or hassle. As has been said above it is the responsibility of each player to keep their chronicle sheets in order and make them available for the GM if so required. As the player is participating in an online game this should be in digital form.

This by no means replaces a character audit if that is deemed necessary.

Seeing the PC's last chronicle sheet was seen as a way of taking a small step towards making sure chronicle sheets are in order and, as Blackfoot says above, getting info required after the scenario is complete.

This really is no overhead for the GM and it is helping to ensure that at least 2 chronicle sheets (the previous and the one with the current scenario) are correct.

I remind some of our longer standing PFS GMs that when we brought the requirement for a copy of the previous chronicle into play there had been cases where 1 or 2 players were not providing correct previous info to the point of it being suspect. Asking for a copy of the previous chronicle was seen as an initial step in checking such players out and also identifying those who might be struggling with the whole process and to allow us to provide assistance.

Just because we don't seem to have that issue now should we stop asking for the previous chronicle? Or, which is what I suspect, we are not having issues BECAUSE we are asking for the previous chronicle?

[Trenloe]

Regarding completion of the chronicle sheet...

This IS the responsibility of the GM to ensure that there is a fully completed and signed chronicle sheet given to each player.

How this is accomplished can be done a number of ways. If the GM feels a player can fill out the relevant info in an empty/unsigned sheet and pass it back to the GM for signing then cool. If a GM wants to ask the player for their purchase etc. and complete the sheet themselves then that is cool also.

The end result has to be a complete signed chronicle sheet, in the correct current season format, for the scenario played.

However you reasonably arrive at this is OK. But, what I would ask is that you please communicate clearly to the players what you expect of them in this process.

It is great that a GM steps up to run PFS games on Fantasy Grounds and I really appreciate the extra work you have to go through to do this. I don't want to make this hard for you, but we really have to make sure that chronicle sheets we issue are correct and complete. PFS coordinators and other Paizo staff are beginning to notice Fantasy Grounds. We will be asking for Paizo product support for future conventions and possibly regular game days. If we are seen as a community that doesn't product correct paperwork then we may miss out. PFS online play is still seen by many within the PFS hierarchy as an uncontrolled and unofficial way of playing PFS. That is beginning to change with the appointment of an online VC. But the more we can do to change those views the better for all involved in online play in general and the better for the FG community.

[Skellan]

It is the length of time to complete chronicles from scratch that I have an issue with. Having a previous chronicle and purchases that spread out on forum boards is no where near as easy as having players provide a chronicle with their information on.

I don't have an issue with asking people to provide previous chronicles for reference.

I am just advocating following the society guide rules as they are written. Why do you want GM's to do things differently to the PFS Society Guide? It is just making life difficult for GM's.

[Skellan]

It would be a better advert for FG if we had more GM's because we have efficient processes