Thinking of starting a C&C campaign... questions!

[S Ferguson]

Sorry. The joys of typing after too many a late night. 10 seems to stick in the brain better and (with a +/-2 margin of error - you should see it when the CB is 8!). Besides in my F2F and VTT games I like the 55% probability margin rather than the 45% you've got in the original rules - it speeds up gameplay and doesn't unbalance it too much. THE RULES ARE YOUR SERVANT - NOT YOUR MASTER or so the saying goes in the PHB. Call it an arbitrary GM fiat. But I do stand corrected. Officially the primes are 12 and non-primes 18. Oops.

[JohnD]

What are commonly used methods for stat generation (finding the base less than pleasing).

I thought of basing it on the prime stats.

If you have two prime stats you roll 4d6 twice and 3d6 five times, dropping the lowest total, arranged as desired.

If you have three prime stats (i.e. Human) roll 4d6 three times and 3d6 four times, dropping the lowest total, arranged as desired.

Re-roll all your stats if the cumulative modifiers are less than +4.

I've created a few test PCs with the above approach and find that they approximate my memories from AD&D days of solid yet non-overpowering PCs, who could be good at what their core function(s) are, with perhaps a little something else beyond. My main goal being to achieve a balance where each PC can manage to hold his/her own, yet still needs to rely on the rest of the party to survive.

I've also thought about adopting the AD&D starting age tables and applying stat modifiers from the DMG (i.e. +1 CON & -1 WIS for Young Adult then +1 STR and +1 WIS for Adult IIRC).

[S Ferguson]

While the PHB only uses the 3d6 arrange in order, their are a few alternate methods of rolling stats:
- 4d6 knocking off the lowest die roll
- for very powerful characters there's a 5d6 discard the lower two.
- rolling 3d6 and NOT arranging them to your liking
- a 66 point spread in which to distribute among the six abilities
- using any of the above methods and reduce any one attribute by two points or two attributes by one and increase another attribute by one

These are just the alternate "canonical version" rules It depends on the power level you want your characters to start off with. Any of the AD&D 1e methods would work equally as well as any other method in which to improve your game. Hope this helps. Since the primes are determined by class and racial choice, it generally isn't good to mix methods, after all, the character class determines the first prime skill and then usually characters will minimax it so the other primes are strong and complementary.

Cheers,
SF

[dr_venture]

Since most game mechanics (other than combat) are based on the Siege roll, the bonus from a high stat and the bonus from a stat being a Prime are essentially the same things: a bonus to your die roll when making a Siege check. Whether you look at the target roll for a Prime stat as being 12, or you look at all target rolls being 18 (non-Prime) with the Primes getting a +6 bonus, the effect is the same: Siege checks for prime stats are 6 points 'easier' than for non-prime stats. So what I'm getting at is that when you allow a 4d6 roll for Primary stats in addition to their built-in bonus just for being Primes in the first place, you're really super-charging those character's ability to make successful Siege checks for their Primary stats... they're going to be especially good at making those rolls, which works just fine if that's what you prefer for your game.

FWIW, I just go with straight 4d6, toss the lowest, arrange as you see fit... but I'm a very laid back GM that way. I even let players shift a few points around to weight their character to their liking. I still have no trouble imperiling my characters, though, but at least they're characters that the players really care about

Basically, you can use the regular old AD&D stat generation tricks that you used in those games, and it all works out just fine, IMO.

I'd suggest snagging a copy of the Castle Keeper's Guide if you can swing it (I think it's 20% off right now) as it provides a lot of material like alternative game mechanics, like ways to generate stats, use the Siege mechanic, calculate stats bonuses, etc. There are lots of good options along these lines if you think you could use them.

[S Ferguson]

Although all the methods in the CKG were delineated in my previous post. The CKG is a must if you really want to get to the "guts" of the system, but it certainly isn't necessary. Most of it is material (such as Dungeon and Wilderness encounter structure, game balancing, character expansion, gear weathering, etc.) that you probably have got a good handle on already. It is as Dr. V said off 20% until the 18th (in the usual Gen-Con fashion sale). And if you feel the need to dive into the system give it a go. I've read it twice, and now refer to it only when I need to (for calculating probabilities or to find out why a rule was made the way it was). It's nice, but not essential.

If you'd like further options there's the free Crusader's Companion full of house rules available at https://www.trolllord.com/downloads/...scompanion.pdf It should give you a taste for what the system can do.

[JohnD]

Thanks for that link Scott... it is a great read.

[S Ferguson]

No problem.

Cheers,
SF

[damned]

Sorry. The joys of typing after too many a late night. 10 seems to stick in the brain better and (with a +/-2 margin of error - you should see it when the CB is 8!). Besides in my F2F and VTT games I like the 55% probability margin rather than the 45% you've got in the original rules - it speeds up gameplay and doesn't unbalance it too much. THE RULES ARE YOUR SERVANT - NOT YOUR MASTER or so the saying goes in the PHB. Call it an arbitrary GM fiat. But I do stand corrected. Officially the primes are 12 and non-primes 18. Oops.

you can of course play with 10 and 17 for example as you suggest - i was just checking you hadnt changed the target numbers in the ruleset!
there are lots of ways to tinker with it.
i think there is/was another method where you had primes, secondary and normal(?) attributes and you might roll against 12, 15 and 18

anyways - while you guys are busy improving the ruleset you can say/do anything and its ok with me

[damned]

mr ferguson - im not really nitpicking honest! you can get 30% off for GenCon all except the last 1 or 2 product releases...

johnd - i allow the players to choose either of these:
roll 4d6 x 6 dropping lowest die and allocate to the attributes as they like
or
assign 16, 14, 13, 12, 10, 9 as they like

the former gives them the chance to get higher scores whilst the latter guarantees them 3 attributes with positive bonuses.

[dr_venture]

i was just checking you hadnt changed the target numbers in the ruleset!

Actually, the ruleset doesn't provide automated pass/fail for Siege checks, it just adds up the numbers for the GM... thus the pass/fail numbers are not declared anywhere. I think this is best, as each GM can set their own pass/fail numbers, and can apply any secret modifiers after the fact on the spot. And determining & declaring pass/fail is pretty simple.