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  1. #21
    To answer folks questions:

    Well, the top end of the XP award goes up every level. If you're level 1, you have the chance of gaining that 2000 XP (divided by the number in the party). By level 10, though, that number jumps to 20, 000. (You were fore-going the last multiplier, which is the average level across the party ... but I probably did not explain it well enough, so my bad.)

    As far as how players take to it ... pretty well, actually. They feel they have a hand in how much extra XP they earn, first of all. Secondly, it becomes a "mini-game" to them, to see how close they can get to maximum.

    It works especially well in a campaign setting, where you may have 7 - 10 or more story arcs - with bonus XPs coming at the end of every arc.

    Characters running with me tend to level at pace of 1 level every 2 -3 sessions for the "lowbie" levels (5 and under), and in the 5 - 7 range for "high levels" (14+), which I think is a fair-ish balance. This way they can get a good feel for their character at each level; it's *not* about racing to 20, a la JohnD.

    My games have a tendency to be RP heavy, with lots of puzzles and mysteries. When there are battles, they have a tendency to be on the "huge grand epic" scale. Because they're more fun.

    I hope that answers some of your questions.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by dr_venture
    Hmmm... perhaps I'm not understanding some other DM's thoughts on the value of role playing in character advancement. I appreciate DM's wanting to reward good roleplaying by awarding XP for it, as it's an aspect of the game that is core to RPGs and fun. A player invests themselves into a session, and the DM wants to reward that - I understand the desire to reward that.

    But for me it's all about rewarding characters with XP for things that would most likely cause that character to advance in their profession, or as an adventurer. An argument can always be made that everything a character does advances their understanding of the world, but a line does have to drawn somewhere, practically speaking... which is what we're talking about.

    I'd award XP for a Rogue that roleplays a conversation with a noble, sweet talking his way into the person's home in order to pilfer something - he's accomplished something he can learn from, and be better at his profession. But I'd reward that Rogue equally whether he played the whole encounter out with a proper accent and witty banter, or whether the player simply said (as many of mine prefer to do), "I'm going to use my Charisma to chat up the rich guy and see if I can get access to his house."

    I wouldn't reward the rogue for having a Oscar-worthy performance at the game table for conversation with an very important NPC if it didn't advance either the character's personal or professional goals/story, or the party's goals/story. If something was achieved by chuming up to the NPC, whether through role play or simple statement by the player, I'd reward it.

    I've just had too many players who aren't comfortable roleplaying to the degree that other players are. They're very uncomfortable 'acting.' They absolutely love the game, are avid and regular players, but they're just not comfortable stepping as far into their character's shoes as other players are. As a DM I get that too, I have absolutely no problem with it. My only goal is for them to have fun playing and get into the game to whatever degree in which they're comfortable.

    I would say that I think roleplaying a character naturally leads to more opportunities for gaining XP, because, well, things tend to just come up in conversation, just like in real life. I do my best to be fair, but I've definitely had subjects and information come up if roleplayed conversations that I never expected to come up at all, and players have benefited from this, and indeed have gotten XP from that conversation. I try to be fair to the non-extroverted players an allow for this to a degree, but it is what it is - some methods of game play are more effective than others. I can't change that, but I can make the non-extroverted feel comfortable and level their playing field a bit.
    I'm beginning to think some of my groups are 'hamming it up just to gain the extra XP.

    I find that your party has to be comfortable playing with each other into order to get the introverts to shine, but then there's always introverted characters that they could probably play to a tee¢° a quiet, sullen barbarian; a scheming rogue who doesn't trust anyone; an "unsocialized" ranger or druid; or a bookwormish wizard covers most of the base classes. Then, as the extroverts play, the introverts can be awarded for "mildly speaking their voice" and eventually get more comfortable roleplaying. That was my initial attraction to the hobby (it's now the knowledge of over 50 game systems (and the tidbits of knowledge that go with them) that have been played over the course of my career as GM).

    And, I agree the conversation has to lead somewhere, or further the character's background for XP, but I would give more points to the thief that made the eloquent speech, rather than describe the actions they take. I'm just a sucker for Oscar (tm) winning performances, especially if it furthers the characters growth which is really the underlying topic here¢° Character growth. How you award XP (an artificial measure of growth in a profession) and why you award it in that particular way.

    Cheers,
    SF
    Aliens.... Go fig?

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Mistindantacles
    To answer folks questions:

    Well, the top end of the XP award goes up every level. If you're level 1, you have the chance of gaining that 2000 XP (divided by the number in the party). By level 10, though, that number jumps to 20, 000. (You were fore-going the last multiplier, which is the average level across the party ... but I probably did not explain it well enough, so my bad.)

    As far as how players take to it ... pretty well, actually. They feel they have a hand in how much extra XP they earn, first of all. Secondly, it becomes a "mini-game" to them, to see how close they can get to maximum.

    It works especially well in a campaign setting, where you may have 7 - 10 or more story arcs - with bonus XPs coming at the end of every arc.

    Characters running with me tend to level at pace of 1 level every 2 -3 sessions for the "lowbie" levels (5 and under), and in the 5 - 7 range for "high levels" (14+), which I think is a fair-ish balance. This way they can get a good feel for their character at each level; it's *not* about racing to 20, a la JohnD.

    My games have a tendency to be RP heavy, with lots of puzzles and mysteries. When there are battles, they have a tendency to be on the "huge grand epic" scale. Because they're more fun.

    I hope that answers some of your questions.
    I agree. Mass Epic Combat (tm) is a blast. I adore rules that include them.
    Aliens.... Go fig?

  4. #24
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    Ultimately Im happy for players to level up every 2-5 sessions because as they get more powerful I can get meaner and nastier with them... looks like lots of different ways of handing out experience - and certainly some interesting ones.
    As to handing out XP for treasure - i too think its kinda lame - but the XP for defeating monsters is set so low tno one goes anywhere... personally setting monster XP *way* higher seems more logical if you are being strict....

  5. #25
    I apologize, S Ferguson, in that so focused on XP awarding I ended up completely ignoring the second part of your OP -
    ... how they handle between-level training
    I assume you mean how I, as a DM, handle chracter leveling - "What training needs take place?" etc ... So that is the question I will answer.

    For me, it depends on the setting. I have allowed leveling on the spot (in-between battles), automatically after the end of an adventure or campaign story arc, and have required PCs to seek out trainer NPCs.

    I don't run too many published adventures anymore, probably because I ran them so much in high school and in college that I've become bored with them; so most of my DMing is in home-brew environments.

    If it's a readily established and orderly society that has strong government and religious organizations, more often than not I'll require trraining at a trainer. However, if it's a weastern Europe c. 700AD type of setting, with mercurial government structure and sporadically available religious authority, I am more inclined to allow instant leveling.

    But it's also a matter of role-play as well - are the players more role-play oriented (lending itself to a "seek out a trainer to level" rule) or are they more action oriented (lending itself to the "instant gratification" rule).

    With regards to approach, i think it important that I, as a DM, be flexible to find common ground so that everyone is having a good time. If not, then what's the point?

  6. #26
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    I usually require time to pass for training, but in some cases not. For example in 3.5e/PF if the PC is advancing in Sorcerer or Warlock, where the powers are self learned or just kind of appear... I simply require a period of rest no less than 8 hours.
    "I am a Canadian, free to speak without fear, free to worship in my own way, free to stand for what I think right, free to oppose what I believe wrong, or free to choose those who shall govern my country. This heritage of freedom I pledge to uphold for myself and all mankind."

    - John Diefenbaker

    RIP Canada, February 21, 2022

  7. #27
    Yeah, even for those "instant" levle-ups, it's normally during a rest period after a battle. In fact, I cannot remember any instance where there was a battle, the heroes leveled, and walked around the corner directly into another battle.

    But like I said, my battles have a tendency to be big bad epic events.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistindantacles
    But like I said, my battles have a tendency to be big bad epic events.
    With a good DM almost any encounter can be turned into an epic experience!
    "I am a Canadian, free to speak without fear, free to worship in my own way, free to stand for what I think right, free to oppose what I believe wrong, or free to choose those who shall govern my country. This heritage of freedom I pledge to uphold for myself and all mankind."

    - John Diefenbaker

    RIP Canada, February 21, 2022

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnD
    With a good DM almost any encounter can be turned into an epic experience!
    My favorite is the scritching noise in the background. The players always go for their weapons. Could be just a few rats or....
    Aliens.... Go fig?

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