Untrained Skills

[RangerOps]

I have been playing in a couple of campaigns and as I understand the rules that have been played it was said that Skills can only be used if you have assigned points in ranks. I was reading page 86 of the Pathfinder Core Rulebook and it says "If you are not trained in the skill (and if the skill may be used untrained), you may still attempt the skill, but you use only the bonus (or penalty) provided by the associated ability score modifier to modify the check". It also goes into it on page 87 as well.

Does this apply in PFS organizational play?

[lachancery]

I have been playing in a couple of campaigns and as I understand the rules that have been played it was said that Skills can only be used if you have assigned points in ranks. I was reading page 86 of the Pathfinder Core Rulebook and it says "If you are not trained in the skill (and if the skill may be used untrained), you may still attempt the skill, but you use only the bonus (or penalty) provided by the associated ability score modifier to modify the check".

Does this apply in PFS organizational play?

There are skills that can be used without any ranks in them (untrained), both in & out of PFS. The skills that require at least one rank before they can be used are labeled "Trained" within their description in the FG module. The Skill List in the Pathfinder SRD also indicated whether a skill can be used untrained.

Note that there are class abilities, like the Bard's "Bardic Knowledge" (which is replaced by the Dervish Dance feat for the Dawnflower Dervish), which overrides the training requirement (ie. having at least one rank) for some skills.

Did this answer your question?

[RangerOps]

Yes. It answered 2 questions I wanted to ensure I had a grasp on.

Thank you.

[Blackfoot]

Basically knowledge skills, disable device, use magic device... and several other skills require ranks to use for any check that has a DC higher than 10.

And yes.. this applies to PFS play as well as normal Pathfinder.

[Trenloe]

Basically knowledge skills, disable device, use magic device... and several other skills require ranks to use for any check that has a DC higher than 10.

That's not strictly true...

To work out if you can use a skill untrained follow these steps:

1. Review the skill descriptions table found here: https://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/...criptions.html or in your core rulebook. If a skill is listed as "Untrained" = Yes then you can use it untrained. If it is listed as "No" then the base rule is you can't use it untrained - but see step 2 below.
2. If a skill is listed as Untrained = No, then consult the individual skill description to see if it has an "Untrained" section - usually at the bottom of the skill description. This will give details of what you can accomplish with this skill if you don't have any ranks in it. If there is no "Untrained" section then you can't use the skill at all without at least 1 rank assigned to it.

For example:

• Disable Device. There is no "Untrained" section in the skill description so you cannot use it untrained. There is no DC 10 maximum or anything like that - you can't use it, period.
• Knowledge skills. The skill description has:

  Untrained: You cannot make an untrained Knowledge check with a DC higher than 10. If you have access to an extensive library that covers a specific skill, this limit is removed. The time to make checks using a library, however, increases to 1d4 hours. Particularly complete libraries might even grant a bonus on Knowledge checks in the fields that they cover.

• Use Magic Device. There is no "Untrained" section in the skill description so you cannot use it untrained. There is no DC 10 maximum or anything like that - you can't use it, period.

[RangerOps]

I am unable to find where it talks about untrained skill cannot be used if DC 10 or higher.

Edit: Trenloe just posted. Now I see why I could not find it.

[Gwaihir Scout]

EDIT: Nevermind, already answered.

[lachancery]

Hah! Thanks Trenloe (and others) for the clarification. I didn't notice that some trained skills had an "untrained" section in their description... I'll blame age for this shortsightedness (although Trenloe could eloquently argue that, as he's born in the same year as I...)

[Blackfoot]

It's not the 'untrained' skills that cannot be used.. it's the 'trained only' skills...