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  1. #1

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    D&D 5th Edition Surveys

    I am in favor of 5Es open Beta. This is because its clear from the release of 4E the designers/play testers were playing a different game from the one released which lead to tons of errata and the obsoleting of the first books released in just a few months. An open beta will stop that type of thing as well as a number of other problems 4E was plagued with.

    However, when I worked at a game company I was not in favor of open betas (except for networking tests or marketing reasons) because you often have the tail wagging the dog. I am deeply skeptical that WotC realizes that only a small portion of players and DMs are responding to their surveys and these respondents may not closely represent the whole of the people that play D&D.

    That being the case, I encourage you all to respond to the blog surveys and make sure your opinions are heard.

    Just go to the Playtest link here: https://www.wizards.com/dnd/DnDNext.aspx
    And go through the Related Articles on the bottom right. Most have a few survey questions for you to vote on.

  2. #2

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    This is the quote I've found the most interesting so far about 5E: "However, our standard goal is to remove minimum group sizes, allow for a complete adventure in one hour of play, and satisfying campaigns in 50 hours of play."

    This is out of this short article where there they are discussing their third goal: https://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article....d/4ll/20120409

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griogre
    This is the quote I've found the most interesting so far about 5E: "However, our standard goal is to remove minimum group sizes, allow for a complete adventure in one hour of play, and satisfying campaigns in 50 hours of play."
    I'd guess this is their way of trying to adjust to a falling attention span of the average person in their target market.

    We can already do a complete adventure in one hour with a "group" as small as one; have been able to since the D&D blue box and/or 1st edition.

    The "satisfying campaigns in 50 hours of play" bit has me thinking that they have a different definition of both what is satisfying and also what campaign means than me.
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  4. #4
    The "satisfying campaigns in 50 hours of play" comment seems like they are trying to emulate a computer RPG instead of creating a pen & paper RPG.

  5. #5
    dr_venture's Avatar
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    After hearing this, I've gone from being intrigued at WOTC's acknowledgement of problems in 4e, to a strong feeling that they continue to have marketing and concept people making decisions about a Marketable Product, and not gamers making something satisfying to play. *sigh* Every version of D&D has moved farther and farther from what I'm interested in playing - sounds like 5e will continue that progression. C&C (and maybe Rolemaster) for me, then.
    "A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." - John Shedd
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr_venture
    After hearing this, I've gone from being intrigued at WOTC's acknowledgement of problems in 4e, to a strong feeling that they continue to have marketing and concept people making decisions about a Marketable Product, and not gamers making something satisfying to play. *sigh* Every version of D&D has moved farther and farther from what I'm interested in playing - sounds like 5e will continue that progression. C&C (and maybe Rolemaster) for me, then.
    I've been getting this uneasy feeling too for some time now. I fear the machine at Hasbro has really left its mark at WotC. I was really hoping that Monte Cook's return signalled a promising future for 5E. Still hope so, but becoming less convinced with everything new I have been reading.

    I'm considering a retro return to AD&D.
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  7. #7

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    Don't get too freaked out yet guys. This from the guy that was extemely freaked out... Remember combat in AD&D was like 10-15 minutes per fight vs. the Standard 1 hour per fight of 3rd and 4th edition. If an "adventure" is basically the same as a 4E delve (3 encounters: 2 normal, 1 boss) playing a delve AD&D or C&C style would probably take an hour. In 4E it take two delves plus a quest to level. In 3E it would take about 3 delves plus two quests to level.

    Currently my gut feeling is "Core Only 5E" is going to be an updated AD&D probably much like C&C. Then from there you add the amount of complexity you want (if any) via rules modules so you can end up with everything for just an upgraded AD&D to something similar to 3rd or 4th edition.

    This works with their 2 hour sessions but for this to be true they have to get combat time back down to about 3-4 per hour for standard encounters. The best thing about the beta is we will get a chance to see what they really do before we have make a use or not use choice.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by DrZeuss
    I'm considering a retro return to AD&D.
    Sign me up, Doctor!

  9. #9
    dr_venture's Avatar
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    Anyone interested in AD&D retro - *please* consider Castles & Crusades: to my mind, it's AD&D, but smoothed out enormously and *very* easy to house mod. It's just a great system for this type of old school gaming.
    "A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." - John Shedd
    "Why is it every time we need to get somewhere, I get waylaid by jackassery?" - Dr. Thaddeus Venture
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  10. #10

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    My problem with C&C is that saves don't work well, in particular, at around "Name" level or higher. The way stats are rolled, I feel saving throw values are better based on level/class AD&D style instead of prime/secondary stats C&C style.

    To me, old school means class is at least as important as stats. I certainly had my share of 13 St fighters with 10 Cons and 9's in Wis, Int and Ch. In C&C past low level it seems to be almost impossible to make saves based on secondary stats.

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