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This set of posts have become undatable... a new thread has been created here:
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...ftware-Summary
It is being updated and is where new suggestions should be placed. This thread will be closed and unstickied.
Graphic Programs that are Used to Make Maps
These programs are graphic design programs that can be used for many things, including making maps for RPGs. Often you will have to find custom "brushes" "symbols" or graphics to use to to get the look and feel you desire, or at least to make map making quicker.
Name Website Platform/OS Base Cost (USD) Cost with recommended add ons Description Pros Cons Examples Notes GIMP GIMP Windows, Linux, OSX Free (GIMP) N/A Full blown graphics application. Ultimate flexibility, free, online tutorials Steep learning curve, need to find/organise own mapping objects ??? Photoshop CS5.x/CC Adobe Windows, Mac OSX $10/month $10/month Professional 2D/3D Raster Image software. Includes full suite of support tools, automation, effects and styles. Premium choice for professional artists. Professional quality output. Can be overwhelming at first but has the best performing pipeline. Considered by many to be the number one image raster tool and as such enjoys a plethora of support tools and add-ons. Need to find own library of textures/symbols. Zeus Examples
For modern stuff the google floorplanner is quite useful.
https://www.google.com/enterprise/ma...ery=floor+plan
You can make 2d or 3d maps and then export in the format of your choice. There's a good selection of item to populate your maps with. It works a lot like Pyromancer but a tad more complex. It's free to use. As for the cons well, like I said, it works with modern stuff only and seems to be limited to room design, could work in some sci-fi too. But it's a good thing, not enough modern VTT maps out there!
I finally broke down and purchased Campaign Cartographer/Dungeon Designer yesterday. The first map I was trying to make was a large outdoor tactical map where my PCs would be part of a larger army battle. I found that neither overland mode, nor dungeon mode did exactly what I wanted, but eventually settled on dungeon mode, scattered some boulders, bushes and trees around, put a creek running through the middle and called it good. It took me the better part of 5-6 hours to really get ramped up on the software (watching and reading tutorials, exploring all the options, etc.). Hopefully my next effort won't take quite so long, but I find my initial impression, especially considering the cost, to be overall 6/10. I'm sure my attitude will change with more experience, but I thought I'd post my experience so everyone has a data point in their decision.
I'm curious, does anyone know what the commercial guys (Paizo, WotC, etc.) use to create their maps?
Finally, is there a walkthrough somewhere of how to use Photoshop to create maps? Zeus's maps look pretty spectacular, and I'm wondering how much he did using native PS, how much was add-ins or external bitmaps, etc.?
Wanna share your map so people an see what you did? CC definitely takes some time to learn and the real power and tricks come in once you played around a bit - especially using sheets and effects.Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenan
Paizo use a lot of different cartographers (the majority freelance) and they all use different tools to make the maps.Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenan
Zeus imparts a lot of info in this thread: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...-Tactical-Maps Particularly post #12.Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenan
You may want to keep an eye on this for when the books start coming out later this year: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...als-guide-book
In the end, making great looking maps is not going to be a quick process until you've learned whichever tool/s you'll be using and get together a good library of tiles, bitmap objects, etc..
You've paid for Campaign Cartographer - stick with it, watch a few more videos, experiment and look at some of the examples, go through some of the step-by-step tutorials, and if you haven't done so already, pick up the Tome of Ultimate Mapping: https://secure.profantasy.com/products/tome.asp which is an awesome CC resource (600+ pages of tutorials) and comes with a lot fo good support files.
This first map ended up being not very sophisticated. Not using sheets or effects at all. I really just needed to get it done so all I really did was:
1. Create a new dungeon, not from template. Set custom size and custom background.
2. Drop boulders from the Cave symbol set all over the map. Learned how to scale said boulders so that they weren't tiny (why is the default size so tiny?).
3. Ditto with bushes and trees from the Vegetation set.
4. Drew a stream down the middle using the water tool.
That's really it, nothing fancy at all. I'll take a look at those resources you linked, thanks a lot.
When you first create your map the width x height dimensions you enter should be your measurement units on the map (e.g. feet or metres) not the end pixel size you want. The symbols are then scaled specifically to the map size based based off this "real world" scale.Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenan
The default dungeon map that is created with the wizard is 1000 x 800 feet (pretty large), hence the symbols come out as very small compared to the overall map. What size did you use for your map?
EDIT: The "DD3 Essentials.pdf" that is installed in your CC3 Documentation directory has a good outdoor areas quickstart guide starting on page 31.
After a few tries, I settled on 300x400. Since this fight starts out on horseback, I wanted plenty of space for them to run, and I figured 80 five-foot squares vertically would be about right (horses have 50ft movement). Also, there are a lot of bad guys (around 20) so I wanted plenty of horizontal space for them to spread out. I think the end result was about right, we'll see how the encounter works in practice (probably still at least a month away at this point).
A long time ago, I bought a startup little program called Dungeon Demon. It wasn't very spectaular, and didn't have much art, but it sorrta, quirkily funcioned. I just checked on it again, and they've scrapped it and made an online version of it that is now in Beta. Perhaps it's something someone would like to check out. You can find it at https://www.rustyaxe.com/
A program I actually use is ArtRage, from https://www.artrage.com/. It aims to provide "natural" tools for drawing, painting, inking,... I like its interface. I've attached a map I made with ArtRage to tets it out; it's a rendition of the D&D 4e world, but done in the DnD 3.5 style.
I also know of Fractal Mapper, found at https://www.nbos.com/products/mapper/mapper.htm. I never played with it much, but I know a few people who seem to like it.
Nice map. That looks like an interesting tool particularly if you don't want to shell out on PS or can't get to grips with the GiMP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mellock
darrenan@: I posted up some short tutorials on YouTube a while back which you might find useful. The styles and textures I used are available for download from my website (see sig.)
Funny - I just found that one over the weekend too...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mellock
I will need to check out that one too.Quote:
A program I actually use is ArtRage, from https://www.artrage.com/. It aims to provide "natural" tools for drawing, painting, inking,... I like its interface. I've attached a map I made with ArtRage to tets it out; it's a rendition of the D&D 4e world, but done in the DnD 3.5 style.
Rite Publishing has some pretty nice map packs that I tend to use.
I use it quite a bit. Its fairly easy to use, actually easier than CC3, but like everything has a bit of a learning curve.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mellock
Personally I use both FM and CC3 (with almost all the CC addons)
I like them both.
I do put everything through Photoshop 7 to gussy them up with blood/grime... that sort of thing.
I think i have mentioned this one before, but for those that own Neverwinter Nights 1 or 2... you can make a seriously detailed battlemap in less than 5 mins by taking a top down screenshot! Not as great for dungeons due to the 3-D walls...but if you broke the dungeon map out into rooms then you will have super impressive maps indeed!
This one, I created using Fractal Mapper for the basics, adding a few CC3 Debris/Fount Items, and adding my own Fractal Mapper Doors/Portcullis (easy to make your own symbols in FM).
Then importing into Photoshop, Selecting the Black/walls copy/paste onto a new layer over top and adding a bevel effect to make the walls "pop". Then add a rendered 2-color cloud layer (use Multiply or Darken or other layer effects) to make it dirty looking.
Attachment 6572
I can use this one as my players have already gone through this part.
This one was done using CC3 and adding the cloud layer in Photoshop to make it more dirty:
Attachment 6573
Always put in a 5'x5' reference square in you maps to make them easier to line up a Map Grid in Fantasy Grounds.
This map was created in Fractal Mapper... I made the Mountain and Hill symbols myself within Fractal Mapper. Stamped them on where I needed.
Attachment 6574
Finally one made entirely in Photoshop:
Attachment 6575
And this one I used Manga Studio 4EX:
Attachment 6576
Just a partial of a vast City...
You can use anything that works for drawing, there are tons of software out there. I also have Artrage, Open Canvas, Dogwaffle, Zbrush (going to use it more soon),.... even stuff I cant remember.
NWN is GREAT to use as well, good mention! NWN2 is really awesome if you want to make Cities, Villages and Towns.
NWN's graphics engine shows it's age from about 15-ish years ago, but it is still pretty serviceable. Here's one map I made a while ago - yes the barn is on fire.
Attachment 6577
Now that just makes me want to post a NWN2 battlemap! :) Related...i also made token in NWN2. Create you pc, equip them, color them ect.
Plop them down on the ground and give the ground a black texture. Pan the camera so you can capture the top down angle you want then Screenshot...take you saved screenshot and plop into tokentool.
Yeah NWN1 was handy, the NWN2 set of castle pieces and buildings can be rotated any way possible... an you know you can buy it for like $10 (platinum) Not a bad price at all for a 3D map maker if you ask me.
Also Skyrim (if you mod it) can make unlimited Faces for Tokens.
I'm not sure if this is helpful for anyone, but here's a couple of examples that I have created with Campaign Cartographer (my personal mapping software of choice). I also use Photoshop and GIMP if I need to make touchups or just want to do something the "hard way" ;)
The first one here is clip from my own campaign world.
Attachment 6584
This next one is a map remake I did to create a battlemap for Scourge of the Sword Coast (D&D Next game). The resolution is fairly low and the pixel size is fairly large, but you'll see that there is still some fair detail to it. Sorry about how dark it is, I was playing with Lighting.
Attachment 6585
I would like to also recommend that you include Fractal Mapper in this thread. I would describe it as a very light version of Campaign Cartographer, with reduced feature depth... but along with that, greatly reduced price and complexity. It's a decent mapping program at a reasonable price point, and as Magnatude showed above, does a lot more than a tiling or web-based freebie program. A good mid-priced option.
Toyed around with both FM and CC, but nothing beyond demos. I couldn't produce anything close to being half as good as what has been thrown up in this thread...really nice stuff.
It takes a little time to get used to the software, but its really about letting the software do what its best at. CC is CAD based mapping, there's a steep learning curve to it...just like with Photoshop and GIMP, but once you get past that, you can produce some pretty amazing results quickly. That dungeon map wasn't "quick" but I've produced some in an hour or two. the campaign map...well, its still not finished. I have lots of open areas in it but that's my fault ;)
When I GM'd tabletop it was mostly in Kalamar or the Forgotten Realms so didn't need much in the way of maps that I couldn't do by hand. Then in the lull in my playing there was no reason for me to make maps. So it was more from not needing to make maps, then lack of a desire, that I didn't spend a lot of time trying to learn any kind of mapping software.
Though I did pick up Campaign Cartographer (with both Dungeon and City Designer) today so I will force myself to learn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortar
Just keep in mind tho...
You have to get used to the tools. FM doesn't have much tutorials out there, I'm one of the few mappers that use it and actually makes his own vector symbols within it. I've used CC3 for years as well, and there is a lot more learning with that as well.
I'm also using one of those fancy WACOM Cintiq's, (a pen/tablet or tablet PC or your touch-phone with an app will work great as well)
The Vector mapping tools (FM and CC3) are excellent for zoom in/out and keeping the shapes nice.
Using bitmap (even in the Vector based mappers) distorts the pixels when you zoom in.
Story is key tho... yeah nice maps are cool, but I also play in games where the GM makes due with simple drawings or "borrowing" images... and I like their storytelling skills, which keep me coming back. I know, yeah, some people just like hacknslash over a nice backdrop of mesmerizing color...
If you can draw... scan it! Take a photo of it... try different things, sometimes even "Paint" works in a pinch.
Remember the old Middle Earth map? .. so simple yet brought so much imagination.
Attachment 6596
Oh yes... sometimes I just find a picture of the inside of a Tavern, not a map, just a picture, there are quite a few online using Google Images. AND I also have photos I bring in, of swamps and stuff...
Attachment 6598
GM: You're going to ride the horse and cart through the swamp?
Player: Yeah, swamps are no big deal... I'll make a Riding/Animal Handling skill check, be through there in no time...
GM:
Attachment 6597
Player: Oh... I guess not.
Anyone know what happened to https://quickanddirtymaptutorials.com/ ?
I've been following that site waiting for the book to be released in August, and as of a few days ago the web site no longer works. It just redirects to some other weird site. It was a kickstarter that made WAY more than the goal.
Follow Michael Turney (the author) on his Google+ page: https://plus.google.com/114973083292...8/posts?cfem=1Quote:
Originally Posted by TalonKaine
He posts lots of maps he is working on. I download them all and add them to my map library! :)
He is still an active member of Library of Gaming Maps Google+
He makes a lot of creative maps :)
Cool.. I'll follow him there. Is he still planning on releasing the books?
I haven't heard anything to the contrary. He's been a bit quiet on the subject after posting that the first book might have been out early. The original schedule was for August 2014...Quote:
Originally Posted by TalonKaine
I came across "Other World Mapper" just now. Their kickstarter campaign ended successfully a month or so ago. They hope to have the product finished before end 2015, with an alpha before May 2015. You could get the basic package for $25 from kickstarter, or $35 for the one with more art. They want to make it DRM- and royalty-free. They seem to take a middle-ground between the ease of some programs, and the functionality of Campaign Cartographer (While also trying to avoid the latter one's learning curve).
Too bad I missed out on their kickstarter. I'm gonna keep an eye on this one, it looks like a good addition to have for running FG games.
Kickstarter campaign (ended)
Their website: otherworldmapper.com
You can find them on facebook, google+, and they have forums, all accessible from their website's "community" menu.
Any opinions on Dundjinni?
Years ago, it had some features/bugs that irritated me, but I've mellowed out considerably. I guess it's ok in my book. There's plenty of artwork to be found for it on their forums. I haven't used it in a while, but it also didn't see updates for it come out since then either. The owner of the company has sort of "disappeared" for quite a while (a few years now, I think), but I think you can still get the software. But ask on their forums first, to be sure. I remember you had to email a user called Kepli on the forums with your license key, and then he's set you up with a download to get it. Not sure if this is still going on.
Any know of a place to get texture for use in GIMP?
You may use these for free for commercial or non-commercial use. For commercial use you need to give them credit and a link: https://www.spiralgraphics.biz/packs/index.htm
These are mostly tileable.
I like https://www.cgtextures.com and use the resources there quite often for base quick to use natural world textures. As for tileable I often just make my own; grab yourself a decent high MP digital camera, go out into the real world and snap away. In GiMP/Photoshop user High Pass and Offset filters to make the textures tilable. Simples!
If your into making your own textures you might find these tools interesting:
https://www.texturemaker.com
https://neotextureedit.sourceforge.net
I use Neo Texture Edit quite a lot to create my own custom textures.
DeviantArt has a good selection of textures as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by bnickelsen
I have had a lot of success with Dindjini. I still use it today. The folks in the forums are very helpful and supportive. But, unfortunately, the development has not kept up with the times and it is getting outdated.Quote:
Originally Posted by bnickelsen
-BearSpiritGuide
I have autodesk sketchbook which can be great for touching up (or blending away parts not wanted from maps you are working on) - especially if you can drop a hexagonal layer on top. Rivers and mountains can be made more realistic etc. You can generally pull the images into other programs afterwards if you wish.
The Vintyri project (open RPG symbols and fill styles) has updated it's cartographic collection with Campaign Cartographer 3 and 3+ installations: https://www.vintyri.org/vintyri/vccindex_cc.htm