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Title says it all. I'm curious what sealed the deal for you all. What made you decide that investing in this application was worth it over the free software that's out there at the moment.
I'm 95% sure I'm going with FG but after an email discussion with a friend this morning, I'm still undecided.
Thanks.
Our group fell for the design, the dice and the rpg feel of the software.
I've played around with both OpenRpg and Maptools, but they were both "just another window based application" to me.
I've only barely looked at Kloogewerks and Battlegrounds, but neither caught my eye when I was originally looking for VTTs a few years ago.
Now, there are several functions that I'd hope FG had that you can find in other VTTs like dynamic lighting and better support for macros etc, but the character sheet, dice and module support that FG has makes it the better choice IMO. Of course depending on your needs, your mileage may vary.
is FG the only app with 3d dice?
While some see it as FG's great weakness that there is no central servers for it, I see that as it's great strength. I do not have to rely on anyone else to be able to game.
Since it is flexible enough that I can modify it myself I can and have made it my own with both rulesets and extensions.
Most of all though when compared to the free versions, it is fast. It doesn't lag up the computer and looks good.
- Obe
interesting.
So with Battlegrounds, I have to connect to a server?
Also, can I play "offline" like you can in BGs? The ability to test out some combat situations before I commit people to a campaign is appealing to me.
I have no idea about battlegrounds actually.
But I do know, yes, you can load up the server even with no players around and check the challenges against their characters.
To answer the other question, yes, FG's 3D dice are unique.
- Obe
interesting. thanks.
For me its the versatility that the engine provides. Unlike most of the other systems out there that give you a set environment that you have to tailor your games to, FG offers you an environment where all of the tools, and I do mean -all- of the tools, are built within the engine using the same scripting language that you are using to customize it for whatever game you are building the ruleset for. This gives you huge potential for what you implement because you can literally build in almost any functionality you want.
Add in the fact that you can build out the interface to appear however you want, that is a great boon for the platform and a draw for the publishers as well. They know that if they sign a deal to get a ruleset for their game into the environment they can be almost certain its going to have a very unique environment for people to play in when compared to other games playing on the very same platform.
FG is definitely in the lead
For me it was the interface, the simplicity and power of the character sheet, the combat tracker, the list goes on and on. I'm currently building some modules that I hope to DM soon and the ability to package it all together is outstanding. I looked at them all before I bought and in my opinion there is no better VTT out there. Where FG lags I am confident that enhancements will be made.
Our group started using FG when FG2 first came out. Previously, we had been using mostly kLoOge and maptool, although we had also looked at a couple of others.
I think it's fair to say that we were seduced by the design and the dice, to start with. FG2 looked good, ran smoothly and did everything we needed of it (maps, characters, combat management) so we went with it and are glad we did. Yes, it has some limitations (my pet peeve is clients being unable to manipulate the map), hence the various wishlist posts on this forum, but the recent changes in developers have proved to be an extremely positive move so far and there is no reason to think that will change.
In summary then, FG2 looks better than most other VTTs, it has some USPs (such as its dice and design), it is very customisable and extremely well-supported by both the developers and the community, and it is going from strength to strength.
Hope this helps.
I ran Klooge for a couple of years. The program is very un-user-friendly for those who never touched a VTT app before. There was a major learning curve (more like a 90 degree angle), it was an intense memory hog, and it was a cluster**** to get anything organized.
Its high points is that it did have a fog of war that you could apply effects to (such as a sun rod effect or darkness spell effect.) Targetting was a lot easier and able to be done both on Master and Client side. A lot of things were automated.
hope that helps
Our very own moon_wizard was responsible for the best 3.5e kLoOge ruleset definition. You won't be surprised to hear that.
I've been using Fantasy grounds since 2005.
It was the dice, at first.
Other VTTs have come along and I've looked at them but not really tried them because:
FGII the GM is the host, no external servers to rely on.
It doesn't try to automate everything!
It's "easy" to modify and create your own stuff (this varies by person of course)
It is the closest too sitting round a table and handing out maps and moving miniatures.
AND it has 3d dice! :P
Style and dm control.
You log into a DM's computer like you'd go to their house. There doesn't have to be anyone else involved - players and a DM. The dice are elegant but not too flashy. The resources available are virtual notes, dice, and books.
It won't play the game for you and it won't get in the way when you play the game.
Other VTTs are worth a look. Maptool is probably my second choice. Fantasy grounds however, has very open management, is extremely flexible, and I enjoy its style.
For me, a tank of gas is now more than the cost of the full license. I couldn't drive to see all the people from even one game on a tank of gas.
Sigurd
I admit that the eye candy was one of the reasons we choose FG. It was nice to be able to actually roll the dice. Other then that, it seemed very intuitive and easy to use from a player point of view. We looked at a bunch of other virtual table tops and Maptools was the only one that came close in our minds.
Also, FG had the most active forums.
The only complaints I have about FG are that 1) I wish it was native to Macs and Linux (espically linux), and 2) I wish there was a much easier way to create rulesets and character sheets. For someone whose not much of a programmer, creating a 'full' ruleset can be somewhat daunting.
As an IT Project Manager, I first defined my requirements. I wanted a tool that would enable me to manage an online campaign, store notes and have rule sets easily available for game systems that I like to play. My requirements were Call of Cthulhu, Rolemaster, D&D, and Castles and Crusades.
I have maptools, which is superior to the mapping portion, but vastly inferior to Fantasy Grounds for a campaign particularly for the rules I like to play with. It's strengths include characters line of sight and lighting where in FG it is clunky. If my requrements were for dungeon crawls (mostly one shot) or face to face gaming I would use maptools. I might integrate maptools with FG2 and get the best of both worlds but not all of my players have two monitors which makes it a bit difficult to flip back and forth.
Battlegrounds looked excellent if my requirements were for hex based games. If my thing was Mechwarrior, I would likely have selected Battlegrounds.
I also looked at the other VTTs and Klooge looked as a potential with some ways to import characters with character generators so it was close for me because FG lacks that. However I felt that character design in Call of Cthulhu isnt that complicated nor is RMC so FG2 won.
I have found FG2 to be very stable and we've had a blast. I don't regret one penny for having purchased the Ultimate License.
And one final note.. and this is coming from an IT guy running and securing one of the largest networks in the world. If you rely upon a central bank of servers and that company goes under, that server gets hacked, or the data center where the servers are located gets flooded... will your game go on?
If I have the software on my own pc or server and people can direct connect through my IP address I can ensure 24/7 uptime. I just need a high speed connection and I'm set. Soon I will have a wireless aircard so even if my ISP takes a hit, the game can go on!
done deal. FG it is.
Well, you're already decided but I'll state the obvious from the responses you've gotten;
The community.
None of the other VTTs have as prolific and helpful community as FG2. I've seen projects get started over someone's favorite rules and next thing you know we've all got a new full featured ruleset to game with. This also goes for tokens, maps, themes/skins, and ruleset assistant extensions.
In addition, you can come here and often within minutes get an answer to a quesiton, no matter how obvious or stupid it may be to some. Let me tell you, I've started working with extensions and I can't tell you how helpful the posts here have been.
All the other stuff is great, 3D dice, DM servers, and now the new licensing options... but, if I had come here back in 2008 and seen flame wars and competing VTT recriminations, and a generally unsupportive and unfriendly community, I would have bought something else. As it was, I was immediately happy, and have never looked back.
Another thing to consider is that, unless the limitation is in the core programming, most of the limitations can be coded out with FGII yourself, where in many other platforms you don't have that option.
Well:
* i love FG dices rolls, makes me feel a little kid (bcuz i remember my first gameplay session).
* Fg is Stable,
* Always upgraded
* The char sheet is amazing
* Notes...
* you can improve ur role play with Ventrilo , so easy to creat a server to use a Voip, and the ventrilo not feed ur connection like skype
*And the DICES again!:D
I've been trying to get friends back into TT gaming, but it's been an uphill battle. For the times we can't get together, I've been evaluating VTT apps. Unfortunately, for a non-committed group, getting them to pony up cash for the app isn't going to happen.
Even though there's free tools out there (MapTools, etc), the thing I like the MOST about FG2 is the ability to have the adventure IN the tool. I can write the adventure and PLAY the adventure in one location. I don't need clumsy workarounds or multiple apps. Just FG2.
Maptools has a good mapper, BUT, only that, Maptools requires a lot of TIME of Game Master building MACROS, thats a boring works, and dont have a good Char Sheet. With Fg u need only sit in a chair, grab some images in ddi compedium, or buy some stuffs in store, and u r ready to play! :)
To invete people try Orkut, Facebook, flicker, ... , like me a lot of people dont have any other guy(s) to play in REAL (face to face) table top, but if u have REAL table top u can use the FG to manage ur game session with combat tracker effects modifiers...;)
I choose FG for playing RPGs online because it is character sheet centric. Most of the other VTTs are all based around manipulation/display of the map. I also chose it because it closely mimics an actual game table so it has a very low learning curve for new players who have played in a face to face game.
FG also has low data input requirements. It's quite possible to use FG to run a game with just a printed module or notes by the keyboard. With the more powerful combat trackers these days you do usually want to have the NPC's/Monster data input, but that is about all the data you really need input. A few map images is nice too, but you can just sketch stuff out on the battlemap if you want.
Finally, the lack of central server was important me for so I was not dependent on someone else's server to be able to run my game and have others connect. I didn't want to worry about down time or Smitework's financials.
FG was and is stable - almost all crashes are bandwidth or connection problems when you are using a mature ruleset.
Community size and third party support were also important factors for me. There are other good VTT's out there. I like MapTool and Battlegrounds - they both have very good developers. If you look at each VTT, most have something they are better at or they do that others don't. For me FG had the most right for running an RPG online.
That's hit the nail on the head for me there. I actually bought a full license without realising that my players needed their own player licenses. I had it in my head that they would just be able to connect but not be able to work offline. Turns out that's the ultimate license :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Scopique
It's nice that the ultimate license offers that. I've been able to get one of my tabletop group to play in another GMs game (Aracons CoC game) without having to buy yet and that's given him a chance to see how nice the package can be.
I understand the devs are working on guest licenses to allow people to play a limited number of games with their regular group and be converted over to the ways of FG2 - so that's been addressed.
That's something I like about FG2 most of all, beyond the obvious eye candy and tabletop feel - the fact that things get addressed. There's a very cool community here and I'm already loving my new online gaming group :)
edit: From my experience there's always been at least one or two people in my offline groups who have never bought an RPG book in their lives. Doesn't surprise me this extends to FG2 - The GM always shells out the most on his/her materials :)
I looked at several of them, but decided to with Fantasy Grounds II basically because they had the Castles & Crusades ruleset. That's what sold me. :)
Bcuz only that! :confused: :confused: :confused: and about the DICE?! :p
I like FG because it's just so beautiful and straightforward. I've tried many other VTTs and while they have all the functions you could possibly desire, the learning curve is generally steep and it feel like I'm playing a game full of windows on my PC.
Fantasy Grounds looks just the way it should -- like a table top. It has dice, your character sheet, and any handouts the DM wants to give you. It runs like a real D&D game, rather than PC software, and so even new players can jump right in and play. You don't have to sacrifice the game table atmosphere like with other VTT software.
I could list off all of the things I love about FG2, but all of them pale to the alpha and omega of my draws to it.
Them beautiful rolling dice. There's lots of other cool stuff--almost as cool as those dice!
I had a long time interest in Maptools and watched as the community around it just exploded in size and development; all kinds of rule-sets, macros, custom setups, dice rollers, etc.
Unfortunately, none of those things were straight-forward to use or create, unless you were coder-savvy.
While I DO love Maptools for it's battle-mat; token handling, light and line-of-sight, having an object layer (like a moving ship, a cart, trees) that allows flexible scaling of objects, et al. I don't like the fact that you need a macro to make anything useful to happen.
* Character sheets? You need a macro.
* Campaign/Story handout? You need a macro.
* Powers dice rolls with fluff text? You need a macro.
Unfortunately, if you run enough macros, it can slow down the software pretty badly.
With FG2, I paid for a full license, and within a week had entered in an entire module with story, links to maps, combat encounters, fluff text, character sheets, NPC stats, treasure parcels, etc.
I never would have been able to do this in Maptools, with the same speed or ease of use.
Many on the Maptools site argue that it's the best battle mat and most flexible (because its not rules specific) free VTT on the market and maybe they are right; it has many good qualities. Unfortunately, after using FG2 for a week, I found it lacked what I needed; a tool to get a game up and running quickly with everything I needed to run one.
I will admit that I had the demo of FG2 installed just for the dice rolling while playing the Dark Awakenings module. I would have loved the ability to zoom or scale the dice box window so my friends could see the dice rolls over the web. I am surprised SmiteWorks doesn't release just the dice rolling tool. I am sure it would have sold a ton if there wasn't one out already for the iPhone.
Consider me happily converted.
Hi!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stitched
I read your post and just had to comment because it echoes my experience and feeling perfectly.
I tapped into Maptools nearly at its beginning. I saw the potential, I even donated money to its development.
But then things I really wanted from the program, individual player views, restricted movement, doors that open and close and alter the FOW accordingly and others either got delayed by months (or even years) or are still not implemented, mainly because of instituting macros or other things my personal preferences deemed less important.
The frameworks and macros are very useful and powerful, but require time to implement and learn that I don't have. I am mostly a DM, I wanted something that facilitated my job. Something with links to maps, story texts, encounter groups, reference texts and a combat tracker in a ready to use easily accessible form.
..and there's rolling dice...
I cannot stress enough how important this is to some gamers. Gamers like dice and like TO ROLL THEM. Sure I understand that its no different from any other random number generator, but I felt the maptool developers never understood how important this is to the "feel" of playing any game in a virtual environment.
FG is the closest thing to actually having people around the table doing the things we normally do at a tabletop RPG. You roll dice, there's battle maps, readily accessible books for looking up stuff tokens representing your minis all in a ready to use format that require little investment of time beforehand. All the work is stuff you would do normally as prep work and even that FG makes easy for me. Anything and everything is a clicked link away....
Mind you Maptools is still my choice for face to face games, because I use an overhead projector to show the map to players and its map features are second to none. I would never player play a face to face game without maptools, its that good.
But, at least to me, I needed different things in a VTT. Maptools (nor any of the other commercially available), does not replicate the tabletop in a virtual form the way I need it too. A VTT for me needs to be as close to the real thing as possible (dice, battle maps, reference books all a fingers reach away) and in my experience FG has delivered in a way none of the others could.
Another, very happy, convert.
Primarch
I think, for me, another aspect that is awesome to FG2 is the fact that, as a framework, it allows you to build out support for so many different systems. And that support can go so much further than a generalized software platform. For example if you made a system that let you have icons on a map and make character sheets.. That's all you would get. Nothing more. But with FG2, you can not only build in full support for all the systems including the combat map with initiative, health and effect tracking. You can add little features like character portraits.
By giving this underlying framework to work with, we've been given a platform for not only the current games we like, but to go back to older systems, even ones that maybe nobody has ever heard of, and build rulesets for them. Sure ruleset construction isn't for the faint of heart, but if you build it right, you create an environment where the difficult development only has to happen once. From that point on everyone benefits.
Add into that the extra effort that is being put in by Smiteworks to get contracts signed by the publishers out there allowing official content to be modularized and accessible. You find yourself in a position where, once that is done you have access to everything you could want for a system. That is why I support this software so fervently. There are plenty of other multimedia platforms out there to support VOIP, music, etc. This is by far the most powerful environment for creating the tabletop environment, virtually.
Primarch,Quote:
Originally Posted by primarch
I've always wanted to try the overhead projector thing (I like the idea of an fg map and combat tracker on the table-its one of the reasons I picked fg), but I cant find a clean way to get the projector set up. I've seen the ENWorld thread, but what did you use to get the projector set up? If you find an easy/elegant solution, I'd love to hear it.
I too was inspired by that ENworld thread and that's what prompted me to use an overhead projector.Quote:
Originally Posted by Talen
The most optimal setup is using a laptop. You could do it with a desk IF the place you play is the same one and not obstructive of the regular things that go on in your house.
You can get either a 10' USB cable or if you projector model permits a 10' HDMI cable (which is what I use). They are somewhat expensive (40-75 dollar price range), but you really can't rely on the cables it comes with (if any) due to their short length.
The positioning of the projector is the hardest and unfortunately most involved part of the setup.
I have not seen a "portable" solution that is really practical or easy to use. I have a dedicated space (game room) for this sort of thing so I went the route of placing the the projector directly fixed to the ceiling. IMO this IS the easiest most quickest and reliable long term placement of the projector since you can use it for games and seeing movies (good way to sell it to the spouse..... ;) ).
Word of caution, not all projector mounts are created equal. Do some research before you buy one for your model of projector. A few things to keep in mind:
1. Carefully look at the pitch and yaw parameters of the mount (the degrees of tilt the mount will allow you). You be surprised that most mounts DO NOT permit a straight down (90 degree) angle (which is what you want for best map projection, straight down on the table), but you can get away with mounts that have less, as long as your projector has a good keystone correction.
2. For a ceiling mount get something that has a extender or a pole between the fixture to the ceiling and the projector. You need some space between the ceiling and the projector for cables, and working with the projector as well as heat dissipation issues.
If you don't want to mount it on a ceiling, you options narrow quite a bit. At first I used to used a high bookshelf to project to a table. It was clunky, to say the least. Also due to the angle, you'll need to prop/fix in a certain position to get a good picture and the projector runs the risk of falling off the shelf due to the precarious angle. I got around this by fixing a weight to the projectors base. Not optimal but it worked.
Also, you could get one of those boom stands (those large tripod devices studious use for large mics or light). It has the advantage of being portable, being able to get a good angle on the table, but are expensive and clunky to set up.
The final method I have seen was to set the camera on a chair and aim it of an angled mirror beneath the playing table, which has a clear top. The setup up is very clunky and people at the table may constantly hit the mirror with their feet and the projectors line of site can be easily blocked.
While installing a ceiling mount sounds hard, I did the one in my house myself, with no professional help. It really is the best solution, since its out of the way when not in use, can be used to watch movies and has great angle on the table top, where ever you place it in its vicinity as well as no one can walk and block its line of site to the table.
In essence, there is no "quick fix" for this, but I think with the ceiling method its a one time thing and it will be easy to use and accessible forever thereafter.
Primarch
A lot of people have said it already, but it bears repeating that the best thing about FG2, to me, is that it has no idea how to actually /play/ the games. :)
When playing RPGs in the real world, I would often search for a good PDF fillable character sheet for my players, but they always did a little TOO well when it came to filling out the forms for me - there was no room for me to tell it that in MY campaign, people don't automatically get languages other than common and anyone with an Int under 10 was automatically illiterate. There was no room to tell it about my custom gods, or add multiple miscellaneous modifiers for little boons and curses I would throw at my PC. There was no room on the demographics area for me to track my characters' hair and eye colors, skin tone, sexual orientation (I learned to ask for this after describing an alluring woman in detail only to discover the player was playing a gay PC), and left - or right-handedness (Or, for that matter, my custom Ambidexterity feat). I couldn't let my people play an elderly character without the sheet automatically applying the age penalties/bonuses, and in many sheets they couldn't play a child character at all (the sheet would "reject" numbers below the minimum). I could go on and on with all of the limitations.
So when I decided to take my game online, I was very wary looking for a system that could handle all these quirks. Through customizability, I could modify an FG2 character sheet to contain whatever demographics I saw fit. Because FG2 remains largely rule-ignorant, I can write in custom feats or custom ways to deal with language without dealing with any programming hassles (and even if there were any, root access to the ruleset code would allow me to simply gut them out).
Last but not least, MAJOR plug to Xorn, because I can't say it enough - this program is CRAZY hard to learn, and without his tutorials, I wouldn't have even paid $40 for a full license, much less the $150 I paid happily for my Ultimate one.
Here is a Blog post that I made regarding this very topic back in the day...
I would like to add, that since that time, I have purchaced most every one of the products I was evaluating. I find that each has it's strong points. and I can't wait for John Lammers to finaly come out with his epic table software.
here is the link: https://blog.wadehone.com/2009/04/vi...ing.html#links
My personal take is that Battle grounds is best for Board Games, (or Card Games,) or, very tacticle combat senarios.
Fantasy Grounds has the biggest most engaged Community of all the 'pay' VTT's.
and it's rule sets and character sheets are great if your willing to put the work into learning the tools and the set up.
iTableTop - long live Video Conferencing. and now that they have gone to 'silver light' many of the tools that were lacking when I made my desision to go with FGII have been implemented into the product so it's now a viable contender.
Those are the 3 that I have ended up paying for, I have the 'Ultimate' style licence for each one. (meaning a GM client, + several floating licences for each product.)
Currently I have been spending most of my time in iTabletop as it's pretty exiting seeing whats going on... but, Fantasy Grounds II certainly has the crown of pre made content and like I said, the community is huge and seems, perhaps because of the numbers, more active.
actualy... most of my time recently has been spent at work... but winter is coming on and work is slowing down, so I anticipate more activity in the VTT world.
zWolf -out.