Special Announcement - Kickstarter

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Originally Posted by Trenloe

See damned's example above - there are plenty of software companies who charge more for upgrades from earlier (longer owned) versions.

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From the same version (see my example) to the upgraded version? I'm not aware of any...that's not saying that there aren't. Besides, I seem to remember (faulty or not) that when I bought it, it said the one time fee entitled me to free upgrades forever...

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Originally Posted by Trenloe

I also fail to see that you using some software you bought in 2006 for 13 years (I'm making an assumption here, based off your profile join date) without paying for any upgrades makes you a loyal customer and therefore entitled to a bigger discount than someone who has only recently purchased FG Classic - probably knowing that a new version was imminent.

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A company living up to the agreement they made to provide free upgrades has nothing to do with loyalty. Also, I never said anything about veterans getting a bigger discount than rookies....I merely said that it seems like veterans are getting penalized for buying into Fantasy Grounds earlier (i.e. paying more than someone that more recently paid for the same version you have)

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Originally Posted by Trenloe

A "loyal customer" is someone who comes back again and again, spending more money, supporting upgrades, etc.. If you bought a car in 2006 and you're still using it now and haven't purchased a new car, would the car dealer class you as a loyal customer? No they wouldn't.

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Clearly you have no visibility to DLC that I have purchased. And you apparently missed the first sentence in my post that I gladly paid the $60 for the veteran upgrade.

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Originally Posted by Trenloe

Now, if you've spent a lot of money on DLC over the years, you may think that makes you a loyal customer - but does that make you more loyal than someone who bought an ultimate license last month and bought all the 5E material for many hundreds of dollars (yes, people do that).

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So how did level of loyalty get into this conversation? I never mentioned it. But since you brought it up...I believe that I am a loyal customer because I bought into Fantasy Grounds when it was a fledgling VTT back in 2006; upgraded to the ultimate license in 2017; have hundreds of dollars in DLC; have gotten several people to purchase at least a standard license by praising the product; actively support the community by providing extensions; was one of the first few hundred to pledge the veteran ultimate package. I think that qualifies as loyal if anything does.

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Originally Posted by Trenloe

You're still getting a big discount on your new FG Unity license, all of the products you've purchased before will work with FG Classic and also with the new FG Unity. And, like I've said, the bigger discount for newer purchasers has been public knowledge for over a year now.

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Once again, I'll refer to my previous post...first paragraph:

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Originally Posted by deer_buster

Have paid my 60 Veteran Ultimate upgrade, without a second thought. Great features for the money, plus the money should go towards additional resources to make it even better. So WIN WIN!!!

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I am clearly in the court that thinks the upgrade is worth the price.


Having said all that, regardless of whether or not it was public knowledge, based on the number of people that have questioned/complained about it, it doesn't seem like the information was clear enough to people, as I am sure that most people don't have unlimited time to scour the forums for a bit of information. SW's apparent disregard of the concerns (and seemingly on the offense in their responses) of those that have expressed them, however, is concerning in and of itself.

I'll stress once again....I was one of the first few hundred that happily purchased the upgrade and can't wait for it to become available to supporters. I would however like to suggest once again (as I have done in many places), that you toss a bone to the people that you made pay more for the same upgrade by maybe throwing in alpha access too. It might drive the pledges up even higher from the rookies that want access earlier too.

Just a thought to help the two sides come together.

Wow!!! $200k (officially) of $29k funded!!!!

John (Moon Wizard) spoke on FG Fridays today about why their is a technological desire/need for taking a phased approach to the number of testers. By having a limited pool of Alpha tester, then a larger pool for Beta (and even that in 2 stages) testers helps both with technology and customer relations. Not that everyone has to agree with the approach, but it is reasonable for both technical and customer reasons and I think it pretty firmly set as the policy SW will be moving forward with.

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Originally Posted by deer_buster

... that I gladly paid the $60 for the veteran upgrade.

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Your paragraph beginning “Having said that...” sounded like a complaint to me, which was what I was responding to. I’m pleased to hear that I was wrong and that you’re happy with it all.

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Originally Posted by Trenloe

Your paragraph beginning “Having said that...” sounded like a complaint to me, which was what I was responding to. I’m pleased to hear that I was wrong and that you’re happy with it all.

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Easy to mistake criticism for a complaint with online media...

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Originally Posted by ddavison

They are just PNG and JPG files - mostly PNG for anything that needs transparency. The files are packaged into a .mod file. We would be open to getting some other contributions as long as you are the artist and it is your work that you are contributing.

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I'll get onto Photoshop when I get back from my weekend away with the missus. As an aside what is the typical pixel size of each element? I.e. floor graphics, wall tiles, etc?

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Originally Posted by Saz

I'll get onto Photoshop when I get back from my weekend away with the missus. As an aside what is the typical pixel size of each element? I.e. floor graphics, wall tiles, etc?

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You may be better contacting [email protected] for techy stuff.

Just thought I'd throw my name in the hat if you need help testing things out on LX for the release. Have already threw in my contributions for the kickstarter and caught this bit in your notes:

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We make notes on things that we know we need to check into for Mac and Linux support but we have not yet attempted builds on those platforms. It is possible and expected that there will be a delay between releasing versions for Windows PC and Mac and Linux. In the worst case scenario, Windows PC users may complete the entire Alpha and Beta process before the Alpha and Beta process begins for other platforms.

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So if an extra pair of eyes is needed to see how things go with running campaigns on LX ... just let me know as am happy to help out.

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Originally Posted by deer_buster

...SW's apparent disregard of the concerns (and seemingly on the offense in their responses) of those that have expressed them, however, is concerning in and of itself.
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Two big NO's on this regard.

SW has bent over backwards for literally years to address this topic, using virtually every form of media that their user base routinely accesses.

That some people would seemingly require a personal visit from SJW at their doorstep, followed up by a weekly advertising campaign comprised of billboards and aerial banners to get the message is not a fault of SW.

Neither has SW been on the offense in dealing with the "professed" level of ignorance (I say "professed", because quite frankly, I do not believe it).

SW and the vast majority of the folks around here have shown near infinite amounts of patience and kindness in dealing with this topic. There are a few more vocal a$$$$$$s like me, who have gotten a little weary of the saints at SW and these forums having to spend their time and resources dealing with it again and again. SW, would most likely prefer that I just shut up, but continues to demonstrate their charitable nature by letting me voice my opinion.

*I don't work for SW, and this commentary is not directed at you personally, but rather at the rabble of the pretend-outraged. If you are not a member of that rabble, then you should not be offended. Please note that it is not possible to claim that the rabble does not exist.*

"Whaaaat? The sign says all-you-can-eat buffett! What do you mean, I have to leave after 6 hours? It says 'ALL YOU CAN EAT!', and I'm still eating! I've been a LOYAL customer, feeding my face at this all you can-eat-buffet, for 10 years now! LOYAL, I tell you! It's an outrage! *shakes bag of Cheetoes*. Oh, the humanity!"

Yes, this is the internet, and everyone is now probably terribly, terribly angry. In *real life* I'd buy everyone pizza to soothe their feelings, but alas as noted, this is the internet. If only I could find the proper emoji to convey my feelings, I'm sure it would all be better.

I suppose anyone who dislikes the pricing model sufficiently realizes it is possible to not back the Kickstarter and continue to use FGC for "years" to come, and then pay full price for FGU after release.

The perpetually triggered/offended segment by anything/everything of the general population will never be happy. No matter what is done someone will be complaining.

The pricing methodology has been explained and everyone is free to exercise voting via their wallet at this point. Personally I'm quite happy that my purchase over 7 years ago has worked out so well, and I've been given a $90 discount on my upgrade price.

From what I can see Smiteworks has treated it's customer base pretty well over the time I've been using FG, it seems likely that will continue.