Paizo and SmiteWorks sign an agreement for official Pathfinder support!

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Originally Posted by JohnD

I doubt it would be free; the cost or some permutation of it would be baked into the price (or Paizo's portion of it at least).

I personally don't think that there's a hig deal here. Doug can't do anything about Paizo's pricing strategy.

In my online experience, everything I've tried to run has been accompanied by a pdf and/or a printed copy of the adventure in addition to the FG version or what I entered myself. It just works better that way for me. I suspect that the vast majority of people running Pathfinder here have their own printed or pdf copies of the rules and adventures.

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I don't see any big deal either, John. It isn't going to change my purchasing habits or product choices. While I prefer having a physical book I do want a PDF to go with it because I may not always be able to lug a stack of books everywhere or have a chance to go find a book on a shelf when I'm running a session. It is often easier to open the PDF and carry on. That is the thing I really like about Paizo's subscription and Frog God Games - you get the PDF with the purchase of the physical copy. WotC could learn from that.

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Originally Posted by Zhern

I don't see any big deal either, John. It isn't going to change my purchasing habits or product choices. While I prefer having a physical book I do want a PDF to go with it because I may not always be able to lug a stack of books everywhere or have a chance to go find a book on a shelf when I'm running a session. It is often easier to open the PDF and carry on. That is the thing I really like about Paizo's subscription and Frog God Games - you get the PDF with the purchase of the physical copy. WotC could learn from that.

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Plus one

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Originally Posted by JohnD

I suspect that the vast majority of people running Pathfinder here have their own printed or pdf copies of the rules and adventures.

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That's because they've had to up til now. And each GM had to make his own copy of his module to run in FG, yadda yadda.

So far I've only been a player for Pathfinder -- PFS specifically, in person and once here on FG. So other than my dead tree Core Rulebook, I don't need anything else. But if I wanted to try my hand at GMing Pathfinder here on FG, only to be told first I have to go buy the PDFs from Paizo then come back here and buy the same content for FG... that's a disincentive in my book.

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Originally Posted by ddavison

There will not be any requirement for a check on whether or not you own the PDF.

The unknown portion is whether or not you will get a discounted price for the FG version if you buy it directly from the Paizo website and already own the PDF.

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Will the full cost from Steam or the FG Store include a copy of the PDF then?

Looking at all the options across RW, D20 Pro and FG it looks like FG will get the short end of the stick? Correct me if I'm wrong here but so far:

The expensive option in RW gets you the RW Content + ownership of the PDF.
The expensive option in D20Pro gets you the D20Pro Content + ownership of the PDF.
The Fantasy Grounds option gets you the Fantasy Grounds Content.

Is this correct?

I don't actually own any of the Paizo material currently but was looking into it so the actual complaints getting around don't really apply to me. Instead I'm in a situation where I can pick one of the providers above based on the best offering and quite frankly, the ability to own the PDF alongside the content is appealing.

No additional information has been released and probably wont be until the stuff is available for sale.

"short end" depends on what you are looking for from your product.
Fantasy Grounds is easily the best tool for playing online Pathfinder. It has so many more smarts about how it handles combat in particular.
If thats not what you are using it for your value assessment will differ.
You're coming from RW so you most likely have different uses for your content.

Id personally like PDFs with products as they are generally easier to read than any other digital interpretation (although the new options in the FG reference manual close this gap considerably) but my digital purchases today are based on what Im running in FG and nothing else.

All of my play is online anymore, so having the content in FG is fine. I do end up buying the physical products that come with a PDF as often as possible and subscribe to most of the Pathfinder subs for that reason. I don't really look at it as the short end of the stick given the amount of functionality FG has with it. Incidentally, I do own Realmworks but haven't had time to use it - I've conned my wife into entering all the Frog God stuff into it, though. She's currently working on Bard's Gate.

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Originally Posted by Zhern

All of my play is online anymore, so having the content in FG is fine. I do end up buying the physical products that come with a PDF as often as possible and subscribe to most of the Pathfinder subs for that reason. I don't really look at it as the short end of the stick given the amount of functionality FG has with it. Incidentally, I do own Realmworks but haven't had time to use it - I've conned my wife into entering all the Frog God stuff into it, though. She's currently working on Bard's Gate.

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I have RW too but dont use it.
Lucky wife...

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Originally Posted by Zhern

I do own Realmworks but haven't had time to use it - I've conned my wife into entering all the Frog God stuff into it, though. She's currently working on Bard's Gate.

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Oh to be so lucky :) Sounds like Frog God Games is going to be getting quite a bit of content in officially.

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Originally Posted by daplunk

Oh to be so lucky :) Sounds like Frog God Games is going to be getting quite a bit of content in officially.

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She's not doing it officially, but depending how it turns out and what the submission guidelines are like, maybe we will send them over to the content market but only after I ping Bill and make sure the Frogs are on board with it and all, seeing as it is their IP and I'm not looking to profit off of that and all.

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Originally Posted by Zhern

She's not doing it officially, but depending how it turns out and what the submission guidelines are like, maybe we will send them over to the content market but only after I ping Bill and make sure the Frogs are on board with it and all, seeing as it is their IP and I'm not looking to profit off of that and all.

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From what I'm hearing the Frogs are already on-board and working with LWD.

Great!

Any news on the approval front? I am dying to see the Pathfinder content - but I understand that such processes take time.

Several of these have been approved. We (SmiteWorks and Paizo) would like to release with the Bestiary 1 as well, but we are trying to track down an issue where big bads (i.e. spellcasters) take up to 50 secs to drop onto the Combat Tracker. Everything still works, but FG looks like it is non-responsive when the copy happens.

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Originally Posted by ddavison

Several of these have been approved. We (SmiteWorks and Paizo) would like to release with the Bestiary 1 as well, but we are trying to track down an issue where big bads (i.e. spellcasters) take up to 50 secs to drop onto the Combat Tracker. Everything still works, but FG looks like it is non-responsive when the copy happens.

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Thank you for the quick reply! I hope you get to track them down soon - I am especially eager to see the Kingmaker Campaign later on, which I already partially converted for FFG on my own. This will be a big timesaver for me.

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Originally Posted by ddavison

Several of these have been approved. We (SmiteWorks and Paizo) would like to release with the Bestiary 1 as well, but we are trying to track down an issue where big bads (i.e. spellcasters) take up to 50 secs to drop onto the Combat Tracker. Everything still works, but FG looks like it is non-responsive when the copy happens.

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That sounds normal to me. Loading the combat tracker is frequently a "ok everyone go grab a drink" moment. This is especially true for npcs with large numbers of effects. If it helps, the problem is significantly worse when players are connected as opposed to preloading the tracker with no one connected.

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Originally Posted by ddavison

but we are trying to track down an issue where big bads (i.e. spellcasters) take up to 50 secs to drop onto the Combat Tracker. Everything still works, but FG looks like it is non-responsive when the copy happens.

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Moonwizard and I corresponded on this before. We had tracked down the issue but no fix was planned. I've noticed the test version has had some changed made to address this (finally). I'm glad to see that. Good luck with the coding. I'll be happy to not have to use dummy npc for spellcasting anymore.

Are the Bestiaries going to be free as part of the OGL? What about tokens to go along with the creatures in the Bestiaries? Will that be premium content we have to purchase the Bestiary to get (basically access the art that's not OGL) or will those be part of the virtualization of another product line like Pathfinder Pawns? Thanks!

We are not going to change any of the SRD stuff that ships with FG. There are already extensive OGL libraries available for these, but we will be selling an official bestiary that has the images and tokens linked, as well as having more detail on the stats - specifically with regard to the extra abilities, spells, etc. of the creature. The pawns are nice but that might make more sense with FGU because they are meant for stand-ups.

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Originally Posted by Galymyr

Are the Bestiaries going to be free as part of the OGL? What about tokens to go along with the creatures in the Bestiaries? Will that be premium content we have to purchase the Bestiary to get (basically access the art that's not OGL) or will those be part of the virtualization of another product line like Pathfinder Pawns? Thanks!

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All the new content will be at MSRP.

MSRP? You mean "Miranda's Sure Ready to Pay"?

is curse of the crimson throne going to be up before the end of march? my group had planned on starting it this month but with the delay we are doing a short interlude adventure but everyone is greatly looking forward to starting.

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Originally Posted by ddavison

We are not going to change any of the SRD stuff that ships with FG. There are already extensive OGL libraries available for these, but we will be selling an official bestiary that has the images and tokens linked, as well as having more detail on the stats - specifically with regard to the extra abilities, spells, etc. of the creature. The pawns are nice but that might make more sense with FGU because they are meant for stand-ups.

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davison, I would prefer to have those before FGU. I hate top-down tokens and prefer pogs or frontal tokens. I doubt I am the only one with this view?

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Originally Posted by Bidmaron

davison, I would prefer to have those before FGU. I hate top-down tokens and prefer pogs or frontal tokens. I doubt I am the only one with this view?

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You aren't the only one by a long-shot.

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Originally Posted by Bidmaron

davison, I would prefer to have those before FGU. I hate top-down tokens and prefer pogs or frontal tokens. I doubt I am the only one with this view?

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I think you mistake Doug's words or aren't familiar with what the Paizo pawns are. Pazio pawns are 3D standees: https://paizo.com/pathfinder/miniatures/pawns Hence Doug's referral to making more sense in FGU, which might end up looking something like this: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...l=1#post270659 (Nothing official - just trying to portray what the Paizo pawns are more aligned to).

As Doug says, there will be tokens with the official Bestiary module, which are based off the art in the Paizo bestiary.

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Originally Posted by damned

All the new content will be at MSRP.

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Will that cost include a copy of the pdf?

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Originally Posted by daplunk

Will that cost include a copy of the pdf?

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Smiteworks doesn't sell the pdf's. You'll have to get those from Paizo.

Trenloe, I own all the pawns from prison, but I doubt many know what they are. I find that the scans make for great frontal tokens. Yes they are designed like 2d miniatures, but the images could be frontals.

I like those possible but unofficial mock-ups. It solves the problem that comes with 3-D models, which is making a lot of content. Anyone who understands alpha layers could make tokens like that for the masses!

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Originally Posted by Bidmaron

Trenloe, I own all the pawns from prison, but I doubt many know what they are. I find that the scans make for great frontal tokens. Yes they are designed like 2d miniatures, but the images could be frontals.

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I hope you didn't get the pawns from prison! You know we frown on nefarious sources on these forums. ;-)

Your questionable sources aside, compare the artwork of the "Bestiary Box 1" pawns with the artwork from the Bestiary 1 PDF. You'll find the Paizo pawn products are made from the same artwork contained in the PDF product.

The tokens in the Bestiary 1 FG module are made from the PDF artwork. From your comments so far, I don't think you'll be too disappointed in them.

As Martin says, it is basically full body portraits for the pawns versus cropped versions from the same artwork, but better designed to fit into squares.

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Originally Posted by Nickademus

Smiteworks doesn't sell the pdf's. You'll have to get those from Paizo.

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All of Paizo's digital content partners have the same license requirements but it seems the FG implementation will be slightly different because of Steam. With all the other partners there is a back end library service that sychs your official .pdf purchase across all the platforms and the Paizo store. The benefit here is that you don't have to repurchase the official content on each virtual platform. Here's my understanding of how this is all going to work.

Realm Works example: if you buy an adventure path .pdf on Paizo.com you can then buy the same Adventure Path in Realm Works but only have to pay the developers cost. If you don't already own the .pdf then you can purchase it directly from the Realm Works store, along with the Real Works content, and it will be available on Paizo.com and sync across all the other platforms.

Fantasy Grounds example: we had a long conversation about this earlier and I think I have it figured it. FG has some restrictions due to Steam that do not allow them to check for external content before allowing a purchase. The workaround it seems is charging the consumer full MSRP of the print product. Basically FG buys the .pdf from Paizo at MSRP on your behalf and gives it to you in the form of FG content (note that you do not get the .pdf itself in this instance). Their costs/profit are then covered by the cost increase from .pdf MSRP to the print MSRP. ddavison did mention that they are working on how to implement a discount via the FG store if you own the official .pdf. I assume this would credit you the MSRP of the .pdf and you would only then have to pay the difference between that and the print MSRP. So this is the the same license model as everyone else, they just have to go about it a bit differently because of Steam.

Please feel free to smite me if I got anything wrong or misrepresented something. This is simply my honest view of the facts as they have been presented thus far.

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Originally Posted by Trenloe

I think you mistake Doug's words or aren't familiar with what the Paizo pawns are. Pazio pawns are 3D standees: https://paizo.com/pathfinder/miniatures/pawns Hence Doug's referral to making more sense in FGU, which might end up looking something like this: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...l=1#post270659 (Nothing official - just trying to portray what the Paizo pawns are more aligned to).

As Doug says, there will be tokens with the official Bestiary module, which are based off the art in the Paizo bestiary.

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What sweet wonder is this FGU! 3D virtual tabletop gaming? Is this seriously in the development pipeline? Oh be still my heart! Sorry for the amazement over what may be old news for you all, I didn't show up to the VTT world until I heard about the Pathfinder license.

OOPS! That should have been paizo not prison! (danged auto-correct)

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Originally Posted by Bidmaron

OOPS! That should have been paizo! (danged auto-correct)

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LOL! I thought that was the case, but wasn't going to miss that opportunity. :D

I probably should be in prison, or the nerd farm (at least that's what my wife thinks).

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Originally Posted by Bidmaron

I probably should be in prison, or the nerd farm (at least that's what my wife thinks).

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Darn, I was hoping to start a cult following for FG in the prison system. Now who can I have lead the initiative?

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Originally Posted by Galymyr

What sweet wonder is this FGU! 3D virtual tabletop gaming? Is this seriously in the development pipeline? Oh be still my heart! Sorry for the amazement over what may be old news for you all, I didn't show up to the VTT world until I heard about the Pathfinder license.

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Don't get too excited. It could be years before we see it yet (and has already been years as is)
It will be great when it does come though.

I had a big sigh of relief when I saw the 2.5 mockup. A lot of pure 3d VTTs seem to die out. Something like what I saw could be used by someone with average graphic design skills, but still hold promise for premium 3d in the future. I am all about the text, but minis are minis! :)

I am with you Lindsey. As someone once observed here recently, the best cooperative role playing games use theater of the mind. I fear 3D will not match that mental picture. Part of me says if that is what u.you want, just play on of the quest-oriented mmorpgs.

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Originally Posted by Bidmaron

I am with you Lindsey. As someone once observed here recently, the best cooperative role playing games use theater of the mind. I fear 3D will not match that mental picture. Part of me says if that is what u.you want, just play on of the quest-oriented mmorpgs.

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Better to direct someone to something like divinity original sin 2 in that case. There really aren't any MMORPGs that have a meaningful amount of roleplay built into them mechanically.

Sure you can roleplay almost anywhere and in anything. But they just aren't suited to a GM running a narrative in 90% of the time nor will they give a remotely similar experience.

Divinity original sin 2 is perhaps the closest a computer game has gotten to tabletop freedom that I have experienced so far.
And given that it will have robust module creation tools and a GM mode, most apt of a comparison.