why did you chose FG over other VTT apps?

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Originally Posted by Stitched

I had a long time interest in Maptools and watched as the community around it just exploded in size and development; all kinds of rule-sets, macros, custom setups, dice rollers, etc.

Unfortunately, none of those things were straight-forward to use or create, unless you were coder-savvy.

While I DO love Maptools for it's battle-mat; token handling, light and line-of-sight, having an object layer (like a moving ship, a cart, trees) that allows flexible scaling of objects, et al. I don't like the fact that you need a macro to make anything useful to happen.

* Character sheets? You need a macro.
* Campaign/Story handout? You need a macro.
* Powers dice rolls with fluff text? You need a macro.

Unfortunately, if you run enough macros, it can slow down the software pretty badly.

With FG2, I paid for a full license, and within a week had entered in an entire module with story, links to maps, combat encounters, fluff text, character sheets, NPC stats, treasure parcels, etc.
I never would have been able to do this in Maptools, with the same speed or ease of use.

Many on the Maptools site argue that it's the best battle mat and most flexible (because its not rules specific) free VTT on the market and maybe they are right; it has many good qualities. Unfortunately, after using FG2 for a week, I found it lacked what I needed; a tool to get a game up and running quickly with everything I needed to run one.

I will admit that I had the demo of FG2 installed just for the dice rolling while playing the Dark Awakenings module. I would have loved the ability to zoom or scale the dice box window so my friends could see the dice rolls over the web. I am surprised SmiteWorks doesn't release just the dice rolling tool. I am sure it would have sold a ton if there wasn't one out already for the iPhone.

Consider me happily converted.

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Hi!

I read your post and just had to comment because it echoes my experience and feeling perfectly.

I tapped into Maptools nearly at its beginning. I saw the potential, I even donated money to its development.

But then things I really wanted from the program, individual player views, restricted movement, doors that open and close and alter the FOW accordingly and others either got delayed by months (or even years) or are still not implemented, mainly because of instituting macros or other things my personal preferences deemed less important.

The frameworks and macros are very useful and powerful, but require time to implement and learn that I don't have. I am mostly a DM, I wanted something that facilitated my job. Something with links to maps, story texts, encounter groups, reference texts and a combat tracker in a ready to use easily accessible form.

..and there's rolling dice...

I cannot stress enough how important this is to some gamers. Gamers like dice and like TO ROLL THEM. Sure I understand that its no different from any other random number generator, but I felt the maptool developers never understood how important this is to the "feel" of playing any game in a virtual environment.

FG is the closest thing to actually having people around the table doing the things we normally do at a tabletop RPG. You roll dice, there's battle maps, readily accessible books for looking up stuff tokens representing your minis all in a ready to use format that require little investment of time beforehand. All the work is stuff you would do normally as prep work and even that FG makes easy for me. Anything and everything is a clicked link away....

Mind you Maptools is still my choice for face to face games, because I use an overhead projector to show the map to players and its map features are second to none. I would never player play a face to face game without maptools, its that good.

But, at least to me, I needed different things in a VTT. Maptools (nor any of the other commercially available), does not replicate the tabletop in a virtual form the way I need it too. A VTT for me needs to be as close to the real thing as possible (dice, battle maps, reference books all a fingers reach away) and in my experience FG has delivered in a way none of the others could.

Another, very happy, convert.

Primarch

I think, for me, another aspect that is awesome to FG2 is the fact that, as a framework, it allows you to build out support for so many different systems. And that support can go so much further than a generalized software platform. For example if you made a system that let you have icons on a map and make character sheets.. That's all you would get. Nothing more. But with FG2, you can not only build in full support for all the systems including the combat map with initiative, health and effect tracking. You can add little features like character portraits.

By giving this underlying framework to work with, we've been given a platform for not only the current games we like, but to go back to older systems, even ones that maybe nobody has ever heard of, and build rulesets for them. Sure ruleset construction isn't for the faint of heart, but if you build it right, you create an environment where the difficult development only has to happen once. From that point on everyone benefits.

Add into that the extra effort that is being put in by Smiteworks to get contracts signed by the publishers out there allowing official content to be modularized and accessible. You find yourself in a position where, once that is done you have access to everything you could want for a system. That is why I support this software so fervently. There are plenty of other multimedia platforms out there to support VOIP, music, etc. This is by far the most powerful environment for creating the tabletop environment, virtually.

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Originally Posted by primarch

Hi!

...I use an overhead projector to show the map to players and its map features are second to none.
Primarch

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Primarch,

I've always wanted to try the overhead projector thing (I like the idea of an fg map and combat tracker on the table-its one of the reasons I picked fg), but I cant find a clean way to get the projector set up. I've seen the ENWorld thread, but what did you use to get the projector set up? If you find an easy/elegant solution, I'd love to hear it.

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Originally Posted by Talen

Primarch,

I've always wanted to try the overhead projector thing (I like the idea of an fg map and combat tracker on the table-its one of the reasons I picked fg), but I cant find a clean way to get the projector set up. I've seen the ENWorld thread, but what did you use to get the projector set up? If you find an easy/elegant solution, I'd love to hear it.

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I too was inspired by that ENworld thread and that's what prompted me to use an overhead projector.

The most optimal setup is using a laptop. You could do it with a desk IF the place you play is the same one and not obstructive of the regular things that go on in your house.

You can get either a 10' USB cable or if you projector model permits a 10' HDMI cable (which is what I use). They are somewhat expensive (40-75 dollar price range), but you really can't rely on the cables it comes with (if any) due to their short length.

The positioning of the projector is the hardest and unfortunately most involved part of the setup.

I have not seen a "portable" solution that is really practical or easy to use. I have a dedicated space (game room) for this sort of thing so I went the route of placing the the projector directly fixed to the ceiling. IMO this IS the easiest most quickest and reliable long term placement of the projector since you can use it for games and seeing movies (good way to sell it to the spouse..... ;) ).

Word of caution, not all projector mounts are created equal. Do some research before you buy one for your model of projector. A few things to keep in mind:

1. Carefully look at the pitch and yaw parameters of the mount (the degrees of tilt the mount will allow you). You be surprised that most mounts DO NOT permit a straight down (90 degree) angle (which is what you want for best map projection, straight down on the table), but you can get away with mounts that have less, as long as your projector has a good keystone correction.

2. For a ceiling mount get something that has a extender or a pole between the fixture to the ceiling and the projector. You need some space between the ceiling and the projector for cables, and working with the projector as well as heat dissipation issues.

If you don't want to mount it on a ceiling, you options narrow quite a bit. At first I used to used a high bookshelf to project to a table. It was clunky, to say the least. Also due to the angle, you'll need to prop/fix in a certain position to get a good picture and the projector runs the risk of falling off the shelf due to the precarious angle. I got around this by fixing a weight to the projectors base. Not optimal but it worked.

Also, you could get one of those boom stands (those large tripod devices studious use for large mics or light). It has the advantage of being portable, being able to get a good angle on the table, but are expensive and clunky to set up.

The final method I have seen was to set the camera on a chair and aim it of an angled mirror beneath the playing table, which has a clear top. The setup up is very clunky and people at the table may constantly hit the mirror with their feet and the projectors line of site can be easily blocked.

While installing a ceiling mount sounds hard, I did the one in my house myself, with no professional help. It really is the best solution, since its out of the way when not in use, can be used to watch movies and has great angle on the table top, where ever you place it in its vicinity as well as no one can walk and block its line of site to the table.

In essence, there is no "quick fix" for this, but I think with the ceiling method its a one time thing and it will be easy to use and accessible forever thereafter.

Primarch

A lot of people have said it already, but it bears repeating that the best thing about FG2, to me, is that it has no idea how to actually /play/ the games. :)

When playing RPGs in the real world, I would often search for a good PDF fillable character sheet for my players, but they always did a little TOO well when it came to filling out the forms for me - there was no room for me to tell it that in MY campaign, people don't automatically get languages other than common and anyone with an Int under 10 was automatically illiterate. There was no room to tell it about my custom gods, or add multiple miscellaneous modifiers for little boons and curses I would throw at my PC. There was no room on the demographics area for me to track my characters' hair and eye colors, skin tone, sexual orientation (I learned to ask for this after describing an alluring woman in detail only to discover the player was playing a gay PC), and left - or right-handedness (Or, for that matter, my custom Ambidexterity feat). I couldn't let my people play an elderly character without the sheet automatically applying the age penalties/bonuses, and in many sheets they couldn't play a child character at all (the sheet would "reject" numbers below the minimum). I could go on and on with all of the limitations.

So when I decided to take my game online, I was very wary looking for a system that could handle all these quirks. Through customizability, I could modify an FG2 character sheet to contain whatever demographics I saw fit. Because FG2 remains largely rule-ignorant, I can write in custom feats or custom ways to deal with language without dealing with any programming hassles (and even if there were any, root access to the ruleset code would allow me to simply gut them out).

Last but not least, MAJOR plug to Xorn, because I can't say it enough - this program is CRAZY hard to learn, and without his tutorials, I wouldn't have even paid $40 for a full license, much less the $150 I paid happily for my Ultimate one.

Here is a Blog post that I made regarding this very topic back in the day...

I would like to add, that since that time, I have purchaced most every one of the products I was evaluating. I find that each has it's strong points. and I can't wait for John Lammers to finaly come out with his epic table software.

here is the link: https://blog.wadehone.com/2009/04/vi...ing.html#links

My personal take is that Battle grounds is best for Board Games, (or Card Games,) or, very tacticle combat senarios.

Fantasy Grounds has the biggest most engaged Community of all the 'pay' VTT's.
and it's rule sets and character sheets are great if your willing to put the work into learning the tools and the set up.

iTableTop - long live Video Conferencing. and now that they have gone to 'silver light' many of the tools that were lacking when I made my desision to go with FGII have been implemented into the product so it's now a viable contender.

Those are the 3 that I have ended up paying for, I have the 'Ultimate' style licence for each one. (meaning a GM client, + several floating licences for each product.)

Currently I have been spending most of my time in iTabletop as it's pretty exiting seeing whats going on... but, Fantasy Grounds II certainly has the crown of pre made content and like I said, the community is huge and seems, perhaps because of the numbers, more active.

actualy... most of my time recently has been spent at work... but winter is coming on and work is slowing down, so I anticipate more activity in the VTT world.

zWolf -out.