I know you're not the only one. Grim Press had announced a new extension on twitter, but by the time I clicked on it, it had already been removed from dmsguild.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentRuin
I know you're not the only one. Grim Press had announced a new extension on twitter, but by the time I clicked on it, it had already been removed from dmsguild.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentRuin
I can't tell if your joking or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by similarly
The name they announced... ah never mind. It does seem its only me after all :(
That IS him.Quote:
Originally Posted by similarly
Is there a way I can buy your combat group ext. privately? DragonBetween(UTC-7)#9389 Is my discord IdQuote:
Originally Posted by SilentRuin
This is not the first time that WoTC has had previously allowed content pulled. Character sheet automation was banned once they had a license with Curse that became D&D Beyond. D&D Beyond is now being used to power play on Roll20 (they are licensed but don't sell books in their system) and Foundry (no license). Content is being scraped from D&D Beyond as well.
Doug has a good relationship with WoTC (he was the first VTT to get the 5e license and managed to get AD&D licensed which I never thought would happen). He has already said that he had a solution to sell extensions started and is advanced in considering turning it on. I would assume that DMsGuild will be slow in taking other action until Doug has something ready. He has always done better for the community than I have seen almost any other business leader do, so if he says he is trying to get a good solution turned on, I trust him.
I don't like that WoTC "owns" the code on DMS Guild as I always thought that Smiteworks would have easy access to it if they wanted to work with the programmer to incorporate it into the ruleset.
Seems there are some who think Hasbro is cleaning up house in order to shop/sell WOTC? The two licensing lawsuits seem to indicate they want to tie up any loose ends to package things nicely. Maybe this is a result of an in house audit of licensing and such?
That was an article with terrible reasoning. MtG is the jewel in WoTC, not D&D.Quote:
Originally Posted by i3ullseye
Not at this time I'll let you know when it has a home though. Grim Press will likely be doing something in the near future for this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonBetween
((slaps forehead)) Oh. Now I got it. You're "Grim Press"? I'm sorry. I didn't know that. That said: I LOVE Grim Press stuff and was really looking forward to that new one.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentRuin
I'm not grim press :) They handle my extension marketing now though as I'm simply to lazy to do it. I don't know where they post stuff but evidently twitter is one place - I don't even have a twitter account :)Quote:
Originally Posted by similarly
Good choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentRuin
Yup. Saw it on twitter. Shame. Really looking forward to that one. Hope this gets worked out soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentRuin
Note on Hasbro selling WotC, AFAIK Hasbro has NEVER sold an IP. They will let it sit on a shelf for years or decades before bringing it back out.
I feel I should point out - Extensions = RISK - as per my paragraph in all my extension page 1's. Read the .txt file that comes with them BEFORE you buy as it covers any additional risk on compatibility with other extensions that may use the code I reference that is "copied" not "overriden, while calling the original code still". I don't know of incompatibilities but I do know there are so many extensions out there - they will be there if we share the same "there can be only one" code. At that point the loadorder will determine who's code actually gets run.Quote:
Originally Posted by similarly
Sorry to be on a soapbox there - but its a "thing" with me and warning about extensions :)
Thanks for letting us know about this. That is nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentRuin
My guess based on 5 years of experience with DMs Guild (AND THIS IS BY NO MEANS OFFICIAL, it's just a guess) is that DMs Guild will implement a rule and disallow any FUTURE .ext publications, but they will forego the EXTREME nightmare of nerfing anything already published.Quote:
Originally Posted by ddavison
Although it is bonkers (IMO) for WotC to shoot themselves in the foot (financially and PR-wise) to not allow sales of .ext files (for whatever reason), I don't think they want to upset a strong subset of the community by taking away files already on the server. I would imagine that would cause even a GREATER uproar than the small one happening now. Imagine a corporation receiving complaint after complaint from people who purchased an item and it no longer receives support or access to download it. I mean it COULD happen, but I would think they wouldn't want the trouble.
Again, I must stress, this is just my GUESS as to what they will (not?) do...
Based on what ddavison said (thank you for those details!), it sounds like a "we don't understand this, shoot it!" type of knee jerk out of WOTC.
Side note: I hope the new Forge isn't built off of the current FG Store framework. I'm sure it's just me but I find the FG store a bit painful to find things and to browse compare to just about any online store on the internet. It feels like there is more packed into that store then it was originally intended to hold.
I doubt Hasbro/WotC care for the .ext .mod under DMG. It is something hard to control from end to end. They already went the slippery slope without way back with the removal of races and other things...
Sounds to me like they only want 5e D&D stuff on DMSGuild and so have put an end to sales of FG extensions. Simple enough and it gives the control and sales of extensions to Smiteworks (eventually) where they should be. Then Smiteworks gets a cut and we get a better product with the extra money they have. Win win.
Exactly. It is no more complicated (or nefarious) than this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiminimonka
It was never intended to be a marketplace for "All things digital /VTT" and this is a correction back to that intended purpose. I was always surprised SW *ALLOWED* extensions to be sold period. But that's a separate conversation. It makes complete sense to me that WotC is not interested in providing a marketplace for third party "expansions" for a software they don't own, and that does not related to their IP.
This is what happens when modders in Foundry violate in very brutal way every copyright. I am surprised that Hasbro waited so long and didn't send the big guns already.
Don't know anything about Foundry modders and their ways. FGU is better than that thing anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valyar
I don't think it's not that WotC doesn't want the extensions or the community sales, but rather that they never planned for it. That makes lawyers jumpy/cautious.
If you actually read the Community Content Agreement which is what authors agree to when they post something, it is wholly inadequate to license software. It just doesn't address software code in any effective way. And, if you were to apply what it says about creative content other than images, it would mean that all the code written by one extension author can be used by any other extension author on the Guild. Not sure all the extension authors understand that. There are other things too, such as harm to your computer etc.
But, anyway, think of it like a machine built to dispense little toys. And that anyone can upload a toy and the machine will sell the toy for anyone who comes by the train station etc. But then someone goes and starts putting sandwiches and food in the machine for it to sell. The machine owners come buy and see that food is being sold and think to themselves "Uh oh, what happens if someone buys one of these sandwiches and gets sick? We're not license by the health department to sell food. We need to not allow people to sell food! (Not that we don't want to make money from them, but if we allow food to be sold, we are liable for things we didn't plan for.)"
Not that a machine can't be made to sell food (software code), but this one was not made or licensed to do that.
Yeah, I completely agree :) I think it is wrong now to say that WotC acts with an "evil purpose" or that Foundry has to do something with that (EDIT: as some others said, not you, LordEntrails :D). As one sees in Doug's answer, WotC was simply not aware of what extensions are and that they actually exist (on Dmsguild). That shows that they put up the agreement just with modules in mind, which makes sense as others said, because code stuff has not really something to do with 5e, it is then about a VTT on which you can play 5e but which is strictly speaking a programme and not related to the IP of D&D in a sense like adventure modules etc. :) Maybe one could even argue that the agreement between SmiteWorks and WotC/Dmsguild is strictly speaking not allowing extensions (but I do not know how it is formulated). At least the agreement does not fit for such things, especially the exclusivity agreement which just causes problems then. As it happened here: SmiteWorks needed to ask Dmsguild whether they are allowed to integrate a code based on their programme. And WotC suddenly has "responsibility" for that. I can understand when WotC does not want to be connected to that, or that they at least now take a step back first. (A step they never willingly did as for modules)Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEntrails
As others mentioned, with the FG forge things can just be better, especially with respect to licenses and it is easier for SmiteWorks to approach developers about integrating their code :)
There is some direct link to 5e. Anything that adds spell effects and uses all the spells that are not in the SRD need to be sold at a place like DMsGuild.com. Any extension that just works on the 5e ruleset also has a link. They specifically don't want you to create your own world, but do accept generic modules that don't have additional world info are OK. The license carves out art from being grabbed by WoTC but everything else is.
I can vouch that this is no longer true in DMsG. My extensions are written for 5E rulesets and have no connection to data - just FGU 5E(based on CoreRPG) ruleset code. And it was whacked. First. So its any extension at all now that is not allowed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrdin Potter
From a user perspective, yes. But such agreements are heavily based on terminology, modules faciliate 5e data and add new things, while the code adds automation for such data to some programme. I would not wonder when that actually makes a difference in licenses and agreements. I cannot simply upload a module for 5e using their adventure modules, but I can always upload an extension or my own VTT automating effects and stuff from the 5e rules arising in certain modules and that has then nothing to do with WotC (then only with SmiteWorks when it is about extensions for FG) :) So, there is certainly a difference in agreements when it is about modules and extensions :) Data is not the same as automating rules from that point of view :) The copyright is distributed differently etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrdin Potter
I'm not sure where this puts my purely FGU 5e (which is based on CoreRPG) ruleset code architecture (no data) extensions. Asking them for clarification - but also figured I'd ask here based on this mail DMsG just sent me.
Quote:
Wizards of the Coast has given us more clarification regarding Fantasy Grounds file types. As a result, we have decided that it isn’t the file type itself that goes against our site guidelines, but the function of the extension that could potentially be in breach of the community content guidelines.
If the extension combines content that is supplemental to a product specifically designed with Dungeons & Dragons 5th edition rules and/or uses Wizards of the Coast IP that is licensed for use on DMsGuild, then it is approved to stay on our platform.
If an extension is designed in a way that it could be used by another game system or is a general update or alteration to the Fantasy Grounds platform itself, then it is better suited for DriveThruRPG.
If you can provide a list of your titles that you believe would be better suited for publication on DriveThruRPG, we can migrate those titles over to DriveThruRPG for you. For us to get started, all you would need is a publisher account on DriveThruRPG.
I apologize for any inconvenience. I know this came as a surprise, for you and for us as well.
I've seen folks suggest this more than once but seen no evidence of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valyar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentRuin
I am totally confused - now they are telling me this...Quote:
Wizards of the Coast has given us more clarification regarding Fantasy Grounds file types. As a result, we have decided that it isn’t the file type itself that goes against our site guidelines, but the function of the extension that could potentially be in breach of the community content guidelines.
If the extension combines content that is supplemental to a product specifically designed with Dungeons & Dragons 5th edition rules and/or uses Wizards of the Coast IP that is licensed for use on DMsGuild, then it is approved to stay on our platform.
If an extension is designed in a way that it could be used by another game system or is a general update or alteration to the Fantasy Grounds platform itself, then it is better suited for DriveThruRPG.
If you can provide a list of your titles that you believe would be better suited for publication on DriveThruRPG, we can migrate those titles over to DriveThruRPG for you. For us to get started, all you would need is a publisher account on DriveThruRPG.
I apologize for any inconvenience. I know this came as a surprise, for you and for us as well.
But combat extensions is limited in ruleset use to 5E only - how can this not be still ok if the others are ok? I'm utterly confused.Quote:
So in the case of the title in this thread, Combat Groups Extension, it could be used with Savage Worlds or Dungeon World, it alters the way FG works, but isn't a part of an adventure module for Dungeons & Dragons.
Looking at another of your titles for an example is https://www.dmsguild.com/product/324...-Grounds-Unity. This uses D&D 5e mechanics to work. "Damage is carried back to your true form (as per RAW), and you revert to your true form automatically." This title would be ok on DMsGuild as it is specifically for and uses Dungeons and Dragons rules.
Your Combat Groups Extension would be better suited for DTRPG and we can migrate it there if you have a publisher account set up.
That sounds like they might be reconsidering. But I don't think DriveThruRPG can work (for the stuff not tied to 5e)...isn't that stopped through a different agreement?Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentRuin
I'm still trying to get clarity. That's all I want to understand what is and what is not good for DMsG. I can read the current responses like all my stuff are applicable but am being told one is not. Its getting kind of frustrating. Ruleset 5E is in all my extensions - its a thing. Even Combat Groups is 5E.Quote:
Originally Posted by DM_BK
I think they are in the process of figuring out what is correct in the moment, too; but, when I understood correctly, a shift to DriveThrough is not simply allowed, see https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...ing-Read-First! :) (also the posts afterwards, one needs a separate agreement).
SilentRuin, if your ext is coded to only work in 5e and won't run for Savage Worlds or Dungeon World, then it would appear they've been mis-informed somehow? I'd let them know that your ext will exclusively only run in 5e?
Give them time. And until Doug says otherwise, FG code can not be sold on DriveThru.
Sounds to me like people are trying to figure it out, and trying to keep authors informed, but I don't think they have consensus yet that they need.
Really? Because the last mail I got has me even more confused. Almost contradicts the previous one.Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEntrails
And now your saying FG extensions can't be sold in DrivethruRPG?Quote:
The specification we have is that for a Fantasy Grounds title to be allowed on DMsGuild it must be supplemental material for Dungeons & Dragons, like an adventure, not something that updates the general use of the Fantasy Grounds program.
We state this in our FAQs on Content and Format as well as our FAQs on Fantasy Grounds.
We are not singling you or your title out and are offering you the option to move this title, and others like it, to DriveThruRPG, which we can do for you as long as you have a publisher account there.
I've CC'd some of OneBookShelf team on this email as well.
I am utterly. Completely. Lost.
No idea what is going on anymore with FG/DMsG/WotC.
About DriveThorugh: Yes, not simply allowed from SmiteWorks' side, see my link in the answer above :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentRuin
As LordEntrails said, we should wait until everything got figured out :)
Read Doug's earlier post in this thread. There are two ways prior to this week that FG extensions could be legally sold;
1) with a license agreement with SmiteWorks
2) Via the DMsGuild.
#2 now has been removed (permanently or not)
Note that DriveThru is not on his list. SmiteWorks does not have an agreement with DriveThru. Yes DriveThru and DMSG are both operated by OBS, but that doesn't mean that OBS/DriveThru has an agreement with SmiteWorks to sell FG extensions on DriveThru.
I suspect the support person who works for OBS doesn't know this and is trying to be as helpful and responsive to you as they can be. But they don't know that FG XML code is protected by copyright. I'm sure they assume you own the intellectual property rights to everything in your code, but you don't. Hence the problem with just moving it to DriveThru.
A solution might be for SmiteWorks to sign a contract with DriveThru to allow such, but that too is going to take time. And it looks like Doug was trying to see if he could get the FG extension Forge up and running in a reasonable amount of time. But if I remember correctly he said that would take them a week or so to figure out.
Hence why I keep suggesting patience.
I am coming to the conclusion that nobody knows what they are talking about. Skipping the mails I've been receiving I'll simply give my last response as it applies to FG/DMsG/WOTC.Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEntrails
Anyone. Anyone at all, that tries to explain to me that people are telling me things with clear clarity is simply not seeing what I'm seeing.Quote:
See if you can understand my frustration from my point of view.
I was told WOTC had clarified it was not all .ext files.
I was told not two responses ago that one of my extensions was good to stay.
I said there was no difference between that one and any of my others, all were for 5E D&D ruleset in Fantasy Grounds Unity.
I was then told the complete opposite from the last messages.
I was then reaffirmed that no .ext are allowed and they've been very clear about that.
I was told that I should move all my stuff to DrivethruRPG.
I'm now told by Fantasy Grounds that, no that is not allowed.
I do believe any rational person would see my point of view about the need for clarity. And trust me - I don't have it.
I've been given contradictory information by all parties.
But I suppose only I have that opinion.
Tell them that the Combat Groups Extension only works for 5E.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentRuin
Also as LordEntrails said, patience. See how it pans out and try not to worry.