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Also, we are continuing to look at the lag issues with the Auras extension as an outstanding issue for the v4.6.0 release; so it's not that we're not looking at it. However, we do prioritize core behaviors over extension behaviors when working on fixes and new items.
Regards,
JPG
Thanks for the update Moon Wizard. I appreciate your comments and I understand that the priority is not if extensions work but fixing the core behaviors. I apologize to you as well in an earlier post of this thread. With Doug being the face of the company, I didn't think to give you credit as a co-owner of Smiteworks.
Maybe this needs to be in a different thread, but I've had discussions in this thread about the topic already:
I guess my point is more to the end user's feeling (my feeling). Fantasy grounds as I've said has been my VTT for over a decade. I have never left it's side. Have I looked at other platforms, sure but just a glance and immediately know that the comfort level and what i am looking for in a VTT fantasy grounds completes. To me it's sort of like my choice in smart phone (iphone vs android). My first brand of a smart phone I purchased and have been with it ever since. This is because am so familiar with it and overall it always works to my needs, I never take a serious look at the other brand. The arguments abound about which is better, I choose to stick with what works for me and probably due to my first choice in smart phones and my comfort with how it works.
My limited understanding of human behavior shows when it comes to products that have similar function but competition in the world, is that once you 'hook' the user, it takes a lot to push them away from that product. So, unless iphone really screws things up and I can't use it like I typically do, I never look at the other product because I am so comfortable with the iphone I deal with a small issues/changes. You could say the same for old school cable companies (streaming services now), internet services, lyft vs uber, etc, etc.
But if my iphone or internet service is not working as it did previously for several weeks, or it just isn't functioning as it did the previous patch. I start to wonder, is this product really worth me putting more of my hard earned money into? I try to continue to have patience with working through the resolution of those issues. However, if for several weeks, it continues to have issues despite multiple attempts to fix it. Well, then I start to look at other options, because just like your time and enjoyment is important, mine as well as my players are equally if not more important as RPG gameplay is for enjoyment not frustration. I get plenty of that during my job.
The sad thing is, is when I or an 'end user' chooses to leave a product (which I understand many have done in the past), the odds of that user returning after several months of using another system (learning the insides and outs of modules, extensions, UI of that new program, and pouring money and more importantly personal time into the product) likely will not return to spend money on dice, maps, tokens, modules on the program they've left.
Again, this is just one individual who uses Fantasy Grounds out of many and there may be many many more users that want the items you have decided for your strategic focus going forward.
However, it was pointed out to me that it appears that this project was in fact a 'pet project' of Doug's as he stated in Fantasy Grounds Friday video back in May of this year. The video is long, but it was very informative to me about the process and some behind the scenes work on the focus on this 'feature' of fantasy grounds.
https://www.youtube.com/live/rraqj8H...7NuOwmTx&t=312 (Link to Doug discussing this very fact).
It's great to have these projects to continue to move your company forward, but there is discussion about this 3D look being like the old school wolfenstein appearance and that in Bryce's opinion there is a niche calling for it. If the desire is to pull this niche into fantasy grounds, sure, but what is the market percentage that want that if your idea is to pull more people into fantasy grounds vs the alienation of your current base due to suboptimal performance and gameplay during these 'innovations'? I am sure you have the information on that.
But then Doug discusses the challenges with Fantasy Grounds and what he sees as the future challenges (appreciate his candor on the topic) and then the question arises again as stated above: Is trying to grab more of the market with a niche look that is more and more competitive according to Doug as well as your biggest market share (D&D) is working so hard on it's own VTT (frankly if it work out for them, smiteworks will never compete with from a visual perspective), worth causing issues with what is working and alienating your base users to go to other products?
https://www.youtube.com/live/rraqj8H...Yk2ffWo&t=1143 (Link to Doug discussing his thoughts on the State of Fantasy Grounds)
Doug even states in that video, almost 9 months ago, that Auras (the apparent current scapegoat of the debacle of 4.6 patch, yes it's been a debacle) was the number one voted feature in that video. So, clearly you can decide to not focus on that extension, but over the past 9 months, your userbase seem to think it's important enough to put at the top of your only real feedback mechanism (Wish List and forge subscriptions) of what your current users want.
https://www.youtube.com/live/rraqj8H..._dVauwI&t=1369 (Link to Doug discussion #1 on Wish List)
For those not wanting to read all above:
1) Thank you for your continued hard work on trying to fix what was broken in 4.6 and trying to get the program back to what was functional in 4.5.
2) I understand core mechanics are the key to looking at currently for fixes, not extensions; however at what cost does this pet project (3D) lead to pushing out your base consumers?
3) I ask you don't forget your base users and community developers that have used fantasy grounds for a long time and have used/created the same extensions for a long time which enhances the Fantasy Grounds experience. That uninterrupted experience is what keeps users around, when that gameplay disappears, it makes fantasy grounds less appealing to use (why else would I use an extension if it didn't enhance the current experience).
4) I also have had the faith that your engine and programming will support those community creators and those who have purchased those extensions through these updates. I suspect that if you support it on your website/platform and collect some of the income from those extensions placed on the forge, you do ultimately have some accountability to them being able to be used on your platform. If this isn't the case, then why do I support those community developers if you won't do the same?
5) Most importantly, please don't forget or minimize what has helped this business grow exponentially since your (Doug and John) acquisition of Smiteworks. - Your long time users of the platform. Again, if the platform goes backward in stability or usability and takes weeks or months to fix, then that base (including myself) will take harder looks at alternatives. There are lots of alternatives now that have licensing agreements with those RPG publishers now, and as Doug stated in the video links above, "We have challenges in front of us, the competition is steeper...".
Respectfully,
Artrem
None of the current issues are related to the new features of 2.5D, expanded dice features, or text on maps. The issues were all caused by refactoring that was meant to improve performance, provide multi threading support, and other core system enhancements.
The new features got linked with those changes because our system doesn’t make it easy to unwind those features to push them independently of each other. We even have this with something as simple as a new dice pack. The dice pack get linked with whatever other development is occurring because it
is a client update.
Thanks for the update and further explanation. As time goes on and each week the gaming experience hasn't returned to what we had prior to the 4.6 release, the frustration continues to build not only with myself but the players that I play with weekly.
If I could go back in time, I would have never accepted 4.6 update (never felt that way before with FGU) and followed LordEntrails model of staying in 4.5.10. Sure, I could play in Prev now but never gone from live, to prev, then back to live. Maybe I shouldn't be shy about it as have used TEST when Trenloe was working on PF2 R19, but there's enough issues now already. I don't need anymore. I will try to keep the faith that it'll be better next week (been saying that every week so far).
If I didn't love using Fantasy Grounds so much, I would just move on and not voice my concerns or worries. Thanks for the additional information.
Respectfully,
Artrem
We appreciate you sharing your thoughts and frustrations. We are working diligently to get back into a nice stable and performant environment. We will keep working on it until we reach that point.