So everyone (GM at least) playing PF2 is first confirmed to have purchased the PDFs via Paizo before they can download the content into Foundry?Quote:
Originally Posted by Weissrolf
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So everyone (GM at least) playing PF2 is first confirmed to have purchased the PDFs via Paizo before they can download the content into Foundry?Quote:
Originally Posted by Weissrolf
Everything coming with the core system should be OGL covered and thus does not need to be confirmed. Since Paizo themselves published some Foundry Pathfinder 2 Bounty modules I assume that they know well enough what is included in the Foundry PF2 core system.
The PDF importer checks PDF files for being paid for (likely via the watermarks), but I guess that this can be tricked. It's not the Foundry PF2 community's responsibility to keep their users from creating forged PDF files, though. And since I am a legally buying customer of PDF files I never had to check if such theoretical forgery works or not.
Use of OGL content with the appropriate license is 100% fine and legal. It is the intended use of the OGL. When people say "you get everything for free on Foundry", they are not talking just about OGL content. They are talking about the ability to get a module with all the boxed text, descriptions, and tagged images preloaded and configured for play on Foundry, much like they are for FGU. The specific distribution of non-OGL content after a watermark check is the part that is debatable. It is debatable in the very sense that IP attorneys who specialize on this sort of thing can look at it and see that it could be argued both for or against. What is not at all debatable is that it is not publisher friendly.
Weissrolf, you seem to like dissecting things and analyzing stuff. I'd be curious to see what you found with the Foundry2PDF tool if you sniffed the packets coming down over the Internet. I suspect very highly that the content is not being pulled from your PDF directly and is instead coming from your online source. If any non-OGL content is being distributed from a source other than Paizo, then that is by definition illegal. Non-OGL content includes most of the non-stat based text, names, and images.
Where is this Paizo statement regarding this claim of being "explicitly allowed"? Given the copyright/OGL at the end of all the PDF modules I own state the images, story, etc are outside the OGL and copying requires written permission, I would assume this written permission must appear on Paizo's website somewhere:Quote:
Originally Posted by Weissrolf
"Product Identity: The following items are hereby identified as Product Identity, as defined in the Open Game License version 1.0a, Section 1(e), and are not Open Game Content: All trademarks, registered trademarks, proper nouns (characters, deities, locations, etc., as well as all adjectives, names, titles, and descriptive terms derived from proper nouns), artworks, characters, dialogue, locations, organizations, plots, storylines, and trade dress. (Elements that have previously been designated as Open Game Content, or are exclusively derived from previous Open Game Content, or that are in the public domain are not included in this declaration.)
Open Game Content: Except for material designated as Product Identity, the game mechanics of this Paizo game product are Open Game Content, as defined in the Open Game License version 1.0a, Section 1(d). No portion of this work other than the material designated as Open Game Content may be reproduced in any form without written permission."
I can't find mention of VTT usage as an exemption on Paizo's FAQ page regarding sharing/copying PDFs either. I'm not trying to be confrontational. I'd genuinely like to know where I can reference to know this is allowed.
Cheers,
Brian
Again, Paizo's PDF files *explicitly allow* content copying. They could have restricted that if they wanted, just like they restricted other PDF actions. I own the PDF file, so I am allowed to copy content out of it into my Foundry VTT session. Using an automated script to do so makes no practical differences, even if the watermark would not be checked.
https://i.imgur.com/cj3Z0S6.png
As far as I know the content is directly extracted from the PDF file, which you have to browse to via file-picker. Since my FGU PF2 sessions is about to begin I cannot cut the internet connection from my desktop PC running the browser session right now, but I can report back later (connecting the desktop browser to my local Foundry server while importing a PDF).Quote:
Originally Posted by ddavison
When you point the importer to an interactive map PDF it will extract the higher resolution maps therein, too.
You as a customer are allowed to copy content from a Paizo PDF for personal use. Nowhere does it allow any of that content to be distributed. If the tool requires any use of non-OGL stuff to do what it does, then this is not allowed by the OGL license. I don't know what the difference is between Page Extraction and Content Copying in regards to document restrictions.
We have written tools to extract content from InDesign and from PDF files for use in our internal processes. Content is not always in the proper order, not always tagged and generally requires a fair amount of massaging to get into proper format. To me, it is very telling that there is always a period of time after release before a PDF import is supported for a new product.
What a PDF "allows" via the file settings does not create a legal agreement. Those settings also allow printing. That doesn't mean I can just print dozens of copies and give them to my friends for free. I would not advise making legal judgements based on the PDF flags configured. I would suspect those settings are done for the convenience of "personal use" rights only.Quote:
Originally Posted by Weissrolf
Cheers,
Brian
I think this is also going on a bit of a sidetrack.
5E is the most popular VTT gaming system for FGU, Roll20 etc.
While it might work for some systems, clearly a VTT option for 5E (which again is the most popular) my points still stand above why people likely are going to be using Roll20 or FGU for a long while before changing to FoundryVTT. Assuming that Roll20 or FGU don't upgrade to change things that make the comparison into going to another VTT less likely.
Personally, I still see people leaving and going to FoundryVTT because FGU is slow to update and change, Roll20 has a massive number of users and it's likely the least liked but easiest to currently use/get into.
The PDF importer module does not distribute the content. The GM's client browser extract the data from the local PDF file and then writes it to the local Foundry PF2 world folder (if hosted locally). This works with the internet completely disconnected.Quote:
Originally Posted by ddavison
It does not.Quote:
If the tool requires any use of non-OGL stuff to do what it does, then this is not allowed by the OGL license.
The difference is that copying allows single elements of the page content to be copied out. Page extraction extracts complete pages into a new PDF file, including formatting (and searchable text layer). Personally I don't like that distinction, because it makes it harder to share single pages (like feat or item lists) with players and is rather easily circumvented anyway (so another "punish the paying customer" thing).Quote:
I don't know what the difference is between Page Extraction and Content Copying in regards to document restrictions.
The PDF import module is written by a single person and of course has to be manually massaged by said developer to properly extract the content, but the content is still extracted from the PDF file, not downloaded from the web. Additionally wall, lighting and token placement data has to be added (and thus manually be created by said person). The module developer offers this for free, but can be supported via patron to collect some money for buying the PDF files from Paizo for import preparations.Quote:
We have written tools to extract content from InDesign and from PDF files for use in our internal processes. Content is not always in the proper order, not always tagged and generally requires a fair amount of massaging to get into proper format. To me, it is very telling that there is always a period of time after release before a PDF import is supported for a new product.