All it would take to discourage a lot of it would be for the the devs to secure licensing agreements and then openly condemn seedy practices ... as Smiteworks has done.Quote:
Originally Posted by celestian
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All it would take to discourage a lot of it would be for the the devs to secure licensing agreements and then openly condemn seedy practices ... as Smiteworks has done.Quote:
Originally Posted by celestian
And as Foundry system developers are doing, at least for Pathfinder 2 and Starfinder. DnD 5E is developed by the Foundry developers themself, though.
PF2 system is a blast. For "flagship system", 5e is quite bland on Foundry, very disappointing. Requires too much modules to be playable and with good immersion factor.
They've already done the first and getting a license with WoTC/Hasbro isn't as simple as wanting it as I am sure you are aware.Quote:
Originally Posted by similarly
So Foundry has a way to go before it's even close to FG in anyway... but it has shiny graphics and players don't need to install software because most OS come with a browser installed (and the OS is usually installed already when they buy the computer too, eliminating another hurdle).
Do you mean Foundry or do you mean the 5E system?
What do you think they are lacking at the moment?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiminimonka
For comparison sake, let's go through the list:
Absolutely.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentRuin
Even more so than in FGU, because modules in Foundry can change fundamental properties of the system. There was a module that changed the whole lighting system to be faster and better, part of which was then incorporated into the Foundry core in v9. And there are modules that improve the toolset for map editing (walls, lights, etc).Quote:
coding to make a wide range of data (modules) or change the core ruleset behavior (or make a ruleset) with extensions and ruleset coding
You can create better looking and more useful maps in Foundry, because lights and walls offer more options, flexibility and bling.Quote:
plus the bling factor (which means nothing to me as I just want the best tool for making my life simple running the game as a DM
Maybe not for ourselves as GMs, but for our players we should. Even more so if the UI gets in the way of players mastering the tools you aim to use with FGU and then the work falls back on the GM again. My players only get into contact with FGU every 2 weeks for 4 hours and then they also have to remember the adventure content and game system mechanics (mostly PF2).Quote:
I don't care about the look/feel of the UI as long as it does the job)
Furthermore we all just keep staring at a mostly static screen. And while the GM is nearly 100% busy most of the players are just waiting for their turn to happen. A boring, unwieldy and then impractical (when the turn comes) UI only leads to players being less immersed and reading websites, watching videos or doing other things away from the game.
Foundry is $50 (+VAT), Fantasy Grounds Ultimate is $149. Discounts on FGU are larger when they happen (the whole discounts being on and off is a nuisance and kicks people in the hurts that happen to not buy during the many, many, maaany discount times). Most systems on Foundry don't cost additional money, but then you also cannot buy much adventure content to begin with and have to enter it yourself. PF2 is an exception where on Foundry you even get more content for less money than on FG.Quote:
and the ability give all this to those that play in your game for free (you still have to pay a pretty penny as host)...
Foundry is marketed as a solution for developers and many people on the Discord are part of that crowd. Most non-developer users seem to prefer hanging on Reddit, which also makes it easier to find answers to questions already asked a thousand times (Google works there for instance).Quote:
Then I don't see why they don't advertise this more in the other apps. For sure they did not show me that when I looked to the extent I wanted (or even as I look now at games broadcast using these apps - maybe I'm just not looking in the right places).
Work in Foundry, even more so in that tokens on the map don't have to originate from the CT. So you can populate your map and still have the CT clean. The CT is less powerful in Foundry and usually only is relevant during combat. Because of the CT being less functional and overall less important in Foundry compared to FGU most people do install the "Token Action HUD" for quick access of character actions/options without having to use character sheets. That being said, FGU's CT is more functional for GMs than players and that HUD module mostly replaces the Action tab in FGU.Quote:
But right now - I have my players only see things on their clients that are visible LOS in the map (overrode CT [Combat Tracker in raw FGU] to not show them anything of a different faction and/or of a different combat group).
Same in Foundry if you give ownership of a (N)PC to any player.Quote:
I can treat the control of PC/NPCs for my players (clients) as the same as the host would have where they fully control the NPC
The CT is the same for players and GM except for the turn controls, which means it is equally minimal for both and offers much less functionality than FGU's CT.Quote:
and can use the CT to trigger their combat features just like in host CT
I have not looked at 5E, so I don't know how NPC sheets look compared to PC ones. In PF2 NPC stats are very different from PC stats, so it makes sense that there are differences.Quote:
(my biggest beef with 5E ruleset is NPC sheets are so different form PCs FYI).
Looting directly out of corpses is in the PF2 system core on Foundry, but other systems likely need a module for that.Quote:
I can drop loot out of the PC/NPC when they are dead without doing anything and players can pick it up without me as DM doing anything if I want to allow it
At least in the PF2 system GM can mark combatants as defeated in the CT, which then also shows on the map. No idea about 5E. Automatic marking likely is up to either systems or modules to implement (especially with how different systems have different forms of defeat/death).Quote:
(plus they get marked in map and CT with token showing they are dead or dying).
Since you can basically reprogram every system and even the Foundry core you can do all that and more. How easy or hard this is going to be is another question that I am not qualified to answer.Quote:
I can implement many things in 5E that FGU does not support simply, like generic action conflicting die rolls, application of range rules, etc. I can make any polymorph type of transformation (wild shape, polymorph, animal shapes, etc.) a simple thing that requires no effort on my or my players to make it happen or change back - following the existing 5E rules for what was done or not (homebrew).
All I did myself was to patch up a module to change token elevation via shortcuts from code snippets thrown at me on the Discord. I had to learn Javascript + tools + some Foundry API for that, which took me about a week of intense pursuit (with GIT being the worst part).
Which is/was an extension specifically limited to 5E in FGU. There are even two extensions offering this, but both don't work for my PF2 group, because the CT is so different to the 5E CT implementation.Quote:
I can preset up as session where all the encounters I expect my players to run into (or ones that I wish to be permanent) as combat groups pre placed on the map
In Foundry the CT stays empty until the GM switches selected tokens to be in combat which then puts them on the CT. You can select tokens via selection rectangle for that, but also have to select player tokens to make them take part in combat (CT). There are no predefined groups, unless there may be a module for that (haven't looked yet).Quote:
but separately controlled for visibility in CT (part of that earlier thing I mentioned where I like to disassociate the map visibility from what is visible in CT I mentioned earlier).
Again, depending on the specific system implementation or modules being installed.Quote:
I can drop persistent containers (parcels) on the map that the players can interact with - or not interact with without unlocking.
Again, depending on ownership of said NPCs. If players owns a token then they can control every aspect of it.Quote:
I can setup a session where I, as DM, literally have to do nothing as the players are all controlling all the PCs and NPCs (I have one or more players running the opposing NPCs) on the map. I just concentrate on the flow of presentation of the game experience. No tracking of rolls - no having to run NPCs myself - just run the game. Or the odd NPC when its required :)
Gist is - none of what I just mentioned is in FGU 5E raw. I made those things because I wanted them.
If you are telling me foundry and roll20 has that power to do these things? Great. Glad to hear it.
I am, now, an expert in this one. So here I'll stay :) My previous post is just why I like FGU and why I think others like the more simple world of the other apps. If you say they are equally rich in complexity that I can modify to my desires - I'll believe you - as I am by no means an expert in those.[/QUOTE]
Well as your telling me Foundry does everything (except CT) equally smooth as I get in my modified FGU 5E I don't see why everyone is not flooding foundry.
I can't make a judgement myself as I don't use Foundry, but you seem to be saying its all easy to do what my modified FGU 5E does so not sure why Foundry is not showing all this stuff in their demo videos - seems silly not to advertise that stuff.
Having said this, its one thing to say you can do it, and another showing its done in a comprehensive game players are actually running in. I've seen nothing as your describing for sure - again - I may not know where to look for it.
Still as I said - I've got my game where I want it (and modify it when I find something I don't like) so me and my players are happy to "play the game" and not sweat the mechanics or how it was done (they leave that to me). Sounds like you don't like FGU, the direction they've taken, and like Foundry a lot.
I'd stick with what you and your players like as a framework and don't worry so much about what me and players like as a framework. Nobody likes everything so I applaud the fact their are choices out there.
I've made mine. Sounds like you've made yours. May we both enjoy our games ;)
I leave tribalism to other people, so I neither try to sway anyone from one VTT to another nor propagate its superiority other than doing comparisons. My comparison was for the comparison's sake in context of this comparison thread.
Like I wrote before, from my point of view:
- Foundry's main benefits are accessibility, technical quality, superior walls, lighting and sound options and price (especially for PF2 groups).
- FGU's main benefits are availability of content for sale, higher level of automation (depending on the system and availability of modules) and more combat-tracker centric operation (for those wanting/needing that).