Wasnt this your original post?Quote:
Originally Posted by daplunk
They are different products for different markets.Quote:
If FG isn't bound by this restriction there's going to be an obscene uproar.
Fantasy Grounds comes with the best and most featured pathfinder ruleset available - for nix.
All things have their merits and their short comings.
Correct and there is absolutely a camp of people who are not impressed with Paizo's new policy. They are the people who have purchased physical books over pdf's and have started using digital tools to supplement their experience. It's not a happy camp.
The more we read between the lines by looking at all the various offerings that are about to hit the market though it would appear there could be another unhappy camp ready to form?
I'm just speculating here but based on the detail provided by the dev's here and elsewhere; it would appear that you will end up paying the cost of the pdf in your purchase and not get a copy of it. Which is fine if all you use now and all you plan to use in the future is Fantasy Grounds. But ownership of the pdf will get you discounts should you need to purchase the same content in other market places and therefore I feel it's a question that should be answered.
Honestly I could care less about Pathfinder... but Starfinder is coming and a sensible man would likely put money on Paizo setting up a framework now for a model that will be replicated in the future.
There will be plenty of people that wont pay for Pathfinder books on FG just like they wont pay for 5e books on FG - but the 5e experience suggests that there will be plenty of people happy to pay for someone else having done the work. At no stage has Smiteworks suggested any pricing other than MSRP so I doubt there will be too many surprises.
There is a big chunk of OGL stuff that will still be available and the tools to implement stuff direct into FG are improving all the time. I dont see where anyone misses out so I dont see where or why people will need to be unhappy.
People can only spend their money once and for some its a matter of watching every cent whilst for others who have a disposable income it will be more likely a convenience spend and then there is everything in between.
I am really puzzled why there is so much wondering about the license when Doug is the guy that consistently cracked open licenses and markets that others have not. A FG adventure is always as automated and as good an experience as possible. Why not wait and see and if you prefer the other prices/model offered, look at the other choices? Otherwise there is nothing really to discuss.
Axe grinding and doom saying.
Put very simply, we know exactly what we will be getting from fantasy grounds and what the maximum price and benefits will entail... there is no questioning it at the moment they have been very clear. It is the same model they used for 5e.
People who DO expect some sort of compensation for having a pathfinder physical book are out of luck (spoken from the perspective of someone who owns every hardcover paizo have released to do with pathfinder and a tiny number of pdfs)
The books weren't made with redemption methods in place and it is VERY hard to implement something of the like in retrospect. Paizo needs to do right by their own business and to do this they need to charge money for content.
The complaints on the Realmworks forum are unreasonable and realistically made by a minority.
On a happy note, I shall be buying the complete package in the same way I have for 5e, and already know two friends who will do so as well.
The licensing agreement and the distribution of Pazio/PDF's will be what it will be. One way of distributing PDF content would be to perform something as a part of the FG update as this is common regardless of where the item was purchased from (Steam or FG).
For example the FG upgrade process could do one of two things:
(1) Download a PDF with signed/coded to the FG folder structure.
(2) Provide a code which is a one time use on the Paizo store to grant you the PDF for free or discounted.
So its all possible from a software perspective - its just licensing and the process that will limit what is possible.
I do not see anyway of offering a redemption for purchased physical books - moving forward physical books could have a redeemable voucher but I can not see Paizo doing that.
I would say your first sentence about Steam is correct. However, don't panic just yet because the developers are still looking at ways to make this a non issue for their customers. ddavison mentioned they were looking into a discount if you purchase from the FG store (and own the official .pdf on Paizo). I also thought I read that the content may be able to be purchased on the Paizo web store, or maybe i'm confusing Pathfinder with 5E. Either way buying FG content from either the FG store or Paizo store would eliminate the Steam problem and link your FG account with your Paizo account giving you credit for all your purchases elsewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by daplunk
The important thing for us to do as customers is explain just how important this is to us. Everyone has their own unique gaming situation. My situation will have me using both Fantasy Grounds (VTT) and Realm Works (Campaign Management) for online play, and Realm Works for my in person play. Since I'm taking advantage of multiple platforms the ability to link all of my .pdf's is very important to me and if FG cannot offer that then I'll move to a competitor. Even though FG may be the best, I'm not going to buy content from them that doesn't include access to the .pdf on all other platforms when that is exactly what their competition is able to offer me. All the .pdf's for an adventure path cost $108, that is not an insignificant amount of money considering that I wouldn't be paying that on any other virtual platform.
For those of you who exclusively use Fantasy Grounds for all your Pathfinder play, you could care less about this. But please don't dismiss the concerns of gamers who will be impacted by this and want to encourage the devs to continue to work toward a solution so we can enjoy this product the same as you.
I was one of the one's who was voicing my, as you aptly put it unreasonable displeasure with this almost instantly. I think it was more sticker shock than anything since I own every hardcover. I'm over it now and ready to spend more money :DQuote:
Originally Posted by lostsanityreturned
Galymyr, what I believe you mean is that you will turn elsewhere for your VTT because the price will be cheaper, since you will already obviously have the PDF through Realmworks (or if you already own it).
Damned, this is the point, and your notion that people will pay whatever they charge because of the superiority of FG is not true the higher that price is, especially if there is a competitor selling similar content for less (because there are some who must watch their coin so closely that the difference matters, regardless of how superior FG is to the other VTTs. The continued existence of those other VTTs kind of proves the point).
I think SW is getting ripped off here. RW (which is the only other thing I watch because I use it, like Galmyr says) gets to sell at a reduced price relative to MSRP for those who already own the PDFs (yes, the hard copy folks get screwed, but that is a weakness of the medium and selling mechanisms, because Paizo could, if it wanted, offer reduced price to anyone who had bought the hard copy from them). Or, if they do pay MSRP, they get the PDF in addition to the content. There are countless folks on here who actively reference the PDFs during their games, even with FG running (though I suspect that will diminish once professional content is available), so PDFs are not totally worthless to many active FG users.
As to the "just wait and see what happens" mindset, well, it appears we know everything there is to know about this. There is no reason to anticipate that the announced license mechanisms on either side will change from what they have both very openly declared to be their arrangements. UNLESS THEY DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT BECAUSE WE VOICE OUR OPINIONS.
And talking about 5e is kind of non sequitur because they don't have PDFs, as I understand it (I gave up on WOTC when they did the disastrous 4e - D&D built like a video game for computer usage which never materialized).
Now, at the point that SW says knock it off because we have made up our minds and have taken our users' concerns into account ... then we should stop, but until then, we need to voice our opinions.
Personally, I am at the point in life where I have the income to handle whatever comes, but that is because my job sucks and I spend a great deal of my time away from the office working rather than doing my hobby. At some point, I am going to get fed up with that and permanently retire. At that point, I will care very much about the mechanism SW uses for its products.