The only negative might be for some people who already did the Standard to Ultimate upgrade of FGC this month so they could get the Rookie upgrade.
The price points are very fair.
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The only negative might be for some people who already did the Standard to Ultimate upgrade of FGC this month so they could get the Rookie upgrade.
The price points are very fair.
Smiteworks do a 30 day money back thing. They might be annoyed 'til you tell them they can get their money back.Quote:
Originally Posted by damned
Doing #1 will probably get you an upgrade from me. My whole group has Standard edition copies, so as DM I don't really need Ultimate. But I've occasionally considered getting an Ultimate "just in case" always but shot it down as too expensive for a 'maybe scenario'.Quote:
Originally Posted by ddavison
This upgrade tier would probably convince me to upgrade. And I'm a newbie, so my pledge would go from $15 to $100 if it happens.
I doubt they will upend their Kickstarter for a select few, especially when it's doing so well right now. The good thing is that you don't really need Ultimate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Three of Swords
Doug asked for input. It was his idea to include a new tier, not mine. I would never have asked for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Temmpest
Was just letting him know that it might get some people to upgrade to help make up for those that might drop their pledge because of the new theoretical tier.
So I just backed the $30 Rookie - Upgrade Ultimate. How quickly do we receive the subscription code (Steam) to update our FG to BETA?
See "What if I am a Steam Customer?" in post #1 of this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Achernar22
For FG Unity (not Steam) the beta test version will be released later this year, after alpha testing is complete - there is no set date as yet, but it should be before the targeted release date of December.
I just added this as a new tier.
FGC Standard to FGU Ultimate
Not a problem either way, very excited. But not sure if it was clear that the BETA will be released in December or if the 'official release of fantasy grounds unity' will be released in December. I see where it stated that Steam will release the same time as on the Fantasy Grounds website.
Just another incredible example of how much Smiteworks cares about their customer base. They're the most responsive company I have ever had the pleasure of dealing with.Quote:
Originally Posted by ddavison
The official release is targeted for December. We don't have a fixed date for the Beta, but it will be some time before the official release. Only after it looks like there are no major issues being reported from the Beta will we do the official release.Quote:
Originally Posted by Achernar22
Also... if anyone upgraded their FG Classic license to Ultimate just to get the FGU Ultimate license, they can contact us ([email protected]) for a refund of that so they can back at the new tier level. The difference is that they will remain on the FGC Standard license until FGU releases.
Thank you for the quick response. I think the adversity in the maps (various weather effects, etc.) and line of site are game changers. Looks superb. Will definitely be using this online as well as in our face to face games. And props to you for adding in the latest kickstarter 'tier' to allow for the upgrade directly from standard to unity ultimate.
Fantastic! Thank you for the obvious caring of your fan base and players! You guys ROCK!Quote:
Originally Posted by ddavison
Easy, now. Don't heap too much praise - Doug might release another dancing video if you do :)Quote:
Originally Posted by YamaShintaku
No more dancing. At my age, I'm likely to injure myself.
Not only is FG awesome software, the SW team is second to none when it comes to community involvement and customer service.
Here is a stretch goal that won’t threaten release: have extension updates automatically download like rulesets and modules!
Have you considered a backer bundle tier of both FGC and FGU either Standard/Ultimate? Eg $45-50 for FGC&FGU Standard or $170-175 for FGC&FGU Ultimate? I understand the focus of the Kickstarter is Unity, but something like this might attract newcomers as it's a bit cheaper than buying FGC on their own then backing the Kickstarter.
I like this one too. I know their are numerous concerns, not the least of which is security, but I also know those issues are solvable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bidmaron
I know such a system was spec'd at one point by a community dev, and I think Doug mentioned implementing this or something in FGU, but not sure when. But then again, my memory is not as good as Trenloe's :)
One thing that was talked about on a Friday FG video is the work needed to implement a co GM mode/build/addition and how to handle multiple people opening/editing the same files or sections withing FGU. This seems like a simple thing as far as permissions go. The person running the campaign (client considered running the game or gm-ing the game) always has priority and overwrite in every aspect. This would imply general game permissions are coded into FGU for access to certain area's of the game I.E. Map, specific modules, chat etc.
Now I am not talking about how much work it would take to code that in, but just the "True" GM always admin over the session like an Operating system.
Unfortunately, That not how operating systems handles file permissions. In an SQL or relational data base, it would be easy to do what you suggest, in FG which is effectively using a couple of text files as it's database, you have to deal with operating system file handling. So what FG would have to do is to create a set of function for the host (GM) to handle all file transactions (caches, staging areas, transaction logs, garbage collection, etc). Not impossible, just labor intensive and you would have to do extensive testing to make sure you never allow the file to become corrupted or commands lost.Quote:
Originally Posted by ssj4megaman
And, of course, Smite Works is not a Google. They aren't big enough, nor do they dodge enough taxes to afford to do all that. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEntrails
They're already rebuilding the engine anyways, there's no better time than now to implement that functionality. And it is vital functionality, given that their competition already supports that feature, and it's a common need for many gaming groups. Better to bite the bullet and get it in when the program's being overhauled than wait until it's done, then try to go back and stick it in in the future.
Except it's 90–95% done at this point. A lot of effort has been spent making sure that the new engine loads all the DLC that the last one could handle. It may have been better to add this as they worked, but as far as I know, that boat has sailed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valatar
The ability to share a campaign between GM's is already supported - you just zip up the campaign directory at the end of a session and send it to the next guy - who unzips it - runs the session - and repeats.
That does require the GM's and players to have the right licenses - as you can't move the 'ultimate' license between seats. The licensing is fundamental to how the program runs - and honestly I can't see that changing at all.
I don't see the necessity of a shared GM workspace **inside** the Fantasy Grounds client.
Doug mentioned potential companion apps in the FGUnity FAQ video--maybe a shared GM Drawing Board app, where a group could open and edit Story, etc. files could garner enough interest to merit development.
I don't think the problem is sharing the campaign. What groups with rotating DM want is to just have one person buy a license and the DLC and everyone is able to share that license and DLC no matter who is hosting the game. Therefore 6 people buy one Ultimate License and one PHB instead of 6 Standard Licenses and 6 PHB's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ckorik
There's no incentive for Smite Works to entertain that at all, is there?
Other than the architectural changes under the hood, there's also significant licensing issues for official products.
I do not understand the intentions to purposely try to get around the licenses model. Smite Works has taken the time to develop a tool that we all can use, no matter where we are in the world. Why wouldn't the community want to pay for that service? It is not even that much money in the scheme of things. Honestly, if you take and apply a dollar value to the number of hours you spend in the VTT, it pays for itself in no time. When I see people complaining about the price, I scratch my head in confusion. Personally, I think their licensing price is very, very generous - for what they have given us, it is worth more. If all those who are complaining and attempting to get around the licensing model sat down and calculated how much money they have spent on games for a computer or console, that they have spent, and played (beat), and most likely are collecting dust on their shelves, that would be something to complain about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zacchaeus
This is a standard price on something that is yours, that you can use every weekend (in my case), without interruption, and anywhere you have a digital footprint. I have used mine in the middle of a combat zone on "down time". I play every weekend with friends I have met throughout the world.
To me, that is Priceless and worth every penny spent.
Which is my I am scratching my head at people who are complaining about the price or trying to share licenses?
If we do the math:
$1,000 (Kickstarter - What I chose to support - A high end choice) / 12 Months = $83.33 a month
$83.33 / 4 Weeks (Weekly login) = $20.83
$20.83 / 8 Hours (Game Session on Saturday) = $2.60
That means I am paying $2.60 an hour to play a game that I love, with friends I enjoying spending time with.
Once again, just an example of what I chose to support - at the high end - not pointing fingers, just using my own logic to find a reason for the complaints.
To me, it is well worth the $2.60 an hour.
If you want to do the math on the proposed pricing model - today, Smite Works is practically giving you an amazing tool for practically nothing.
I think they should charge us more, personally.
Everyone has different levels of expendable income that they can dedicate to the hobby. A lot of people also don't play every week. Or they've already spent money on a physical PHB, D&D Beyond, etc. and they struggle to justify buying the same again (potentially 6 times across a rotating group of players and GMs). It's an understandable "complaint" for some people. We're also in an environment of free or very inexpensive apps (that then hit you with adverts or micro transactions to make their money), where spending more than a couple of dollars for an "app" is against the norm. We know how advanced FG is, and the many thousands of hours that have gone into development, but people purchasing something for the first time and see the (potentially) high level of investment can seem off putting - especially if they're expecting a much less feature rich and in depth application than Fantasy Grounds actually is (based off experience of other apps/purchase models).
Hopefully most people will look past the initial costs and realise, if they're going to use FG for a while, that it's very worthwhile and will hopefully fit within their long term gaming budget. But there will always be some instances where it might not be financially viable (like the 6 player/GM rotating group mentioned) and they need to make the decision of whether the cost vs. advantages of FG is worthwhile for them.
I see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trenloe
You bring up some valid points.
I guess I see things differently than most people.
I do see your point though - even if I don't agree.
Thanks for taking the time to respond.
When I stopped tracking this my cost/hour using FG was just under $0.24. That's over 7+ years and around $1700 in licensing and DLC. Entirely worth it.
Exactly my point!Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnD
Thank you for re-enforcing it.
Practically nothing...
To be completely clear - I 100% support SmiteWorks pricing and licensing model. I just think that we should not look at just our own situation and should try to see things from all angles. If someone says "to do what I want in Fantasy Grounds is too expensive for me and my group", all we can do is point out the average game costs over time and let them make their own decision as to what is too expensive for them or not. I don't have the right to judge what is "too expensive" for other people, only what is too expensive for me. It's perfectly within people's rights to ask for a change in the model to better fit their requirements - SmiteWorks can review that request and decide what they want/can do based off their licensing restrictions and long term vision. For example, the subscription license came along relatively recently due to people saying the cost of entry was "too expensive" and wanting alternatives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantherin
Also add on the issues of regional pricing and currency conversions...
This whole "shared gm license" is just a thinly veiled attempt to get something for nothing (or practically nothing). I'm not fooled, the folks proposing it aren't fooled, and I'm sure that SW isn't fooled.
What was once a hobby that was shared locally has now become a global, and that means that the potential for abuse increases proportionally. SW needs to take care that all of a sudden we don't have "GM swapping groups", that include GMs in the East Coast US, West Coast US, Brazil, Japan, Norway, Australia, Russia, etc. all "conveniently" only playing in their local time zone for the majority of the time (perhaps with a token login every blue moon).
Every dollar that SW loses to this sort of chicanery is a dollar that is not being spent on improving the experience for everyone else.
I think people are looking at that functionality (shared GMs) in Roll20 and saying we want this in FG as well.
But Trenloe is absolutely right; whatever we personally might think of the pricing it is not for us to judge whether that's affordable for others. And whilst there would be people who would abuse it if it were possible there are genuine groups out there that do rotate DMs on a regular basis and if they were doing so at the table top one copy of the PHB would be all they needed.
Let's not getting into assigning or assuming motives of other people. That's a downward slope and all with little to no benefits.