Printable View
Alpha is only available to hackers at the top 2 tiers. Beta will be available to all backers at some point before December. Initially only for backers, but then at some point for demo users for FGU Ultimate backers.Quote:
Originally Posted by revanmaster
Hackers?Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEntrails
Edit: Count me in! :o
Only if they're really good hackers.
JPG
Are top tier hackers good enough?Quote:
Originally Posted by Moon Wizard
I can just imagine a bunch of NSA folks sitting around laughing at us poor sods who had to wait for the KS!
Not to complain too much, but I'm kinda disappointed the upgrade difference between me, who bought FG in may 2017 for $39, and someone buying it fresh is only $6.
You've had FG for 2ish years. Presumably you've received value from having it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhym
I mean I could complain to because I bought it back then but the way I look at it is that I have been enjoying the product more then someone who would have bought it say yesterday. In all honesty I feel like the people who have had it for a long time should step up and support Smiteworks more then your new person because they have yet to see what the potential of this VTT can do. I donated more then what was required, not to pat myself on the back, but because I see the potential for what can be accomplished now that we are moving to a 64 bit programQuote:
Originally Posted by Rhym
I honestly fail to see the logic in this approach. It's like saying people who've been loyal for longer are worth less to you than those who just rocked up. Generally, if you want to retain respect of loyal users who've been with the community for a long time, making them pay more than someone who just walked in to buy a little while ago is a pretty daft way to go about it. For Ultimate users, the difference is quite literally double the price for a longer user, and half that for the newer one. I'd love to know the reasoning behind this, and the excuse above about having had more value from FGC is a bit of a cop out, don't you think?
I don't get people sometimes. Congratulations on a successful KS!
No, it isn’t. Long time users have had years of absolutely free updates. New users have not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teknykk
The logic behind is that the 1-time licenses are a replacement for a monthly subscription that costs $10 per month. The longer you've had that and not paid a subscription, the more monetary value you've received from the license. New customers are likely to face buyers regret if they just bought 10 days ago. We are giving them a very steep discount that means they get more value from their original purchase. We are just being overly friendly and extending that even further all the way back to 2018. They can have owned it for nearly 17 months ($170 worth of subscription value savings) and they only have to pay $30 (the equivalent of 3 months). Beyond that, people get multiple years worth of savings but are only asked to pay the equivalent of $60 (6-months worth of subscriptions) to transfer that same savings to the newest version of the software. Meanwhile, it's an optional upgrade that doesn't invalidate their old version.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teknykk
We had one customer arguing endlessly over it for a license he bought in 2011 (8 years worth is $960 worth of savings in monthly subscription fees and he thought it was unfair that we want to charge him $60 for access to the new platform.
If it doesn't make sense to you, then simply don't back the KS or upgrade to FGU. FGC will continue to work fine for you and you can go on about your business.
I think the upgrade approach is spot on. I purchased my standard in 2015 and Ultimate in 2018. While I'm thrilled to be able to upgrade for $30, I would have happily paid full price. I use FG for both online and f2f play. I've been playing D&D since 1979 and can't imagine doing it any other way now. I've gotten my money out of it and then some.
I think it's useless to keep explaining yourself. This has been made clear over and over again. Honestly, I was expecting to pay more to upgrade. The price structure you have is more than fair! You have an awesome product, with great customer service (best in the business), and an awesome community. Look forward to the Unity.Quote:
Originally Posted by ddavison
actually i really appreciate the clarification( Ddavisons post should be added to the kickstarter faq :)
I would've thought a mid-range price between either would've sufficed. And I think any customer, like me, arguing over it is perfectly reasonable also. Especially if one were to consider the contribution they've made with other purchases, or more so, helping keep the community alive with their activities. For me, this is that sore point. I've been here a fair while now. Not as long as some, but long enough to be willing to put in endless hours to cater to players, free or otherwise, to give them games to play. If one were to factor that in, it's somewhat harder to swallow that they'd have to pay double what someone else with the exact same license will.Quote:
Originally Posted by ddavison
It makes sense from your longer explanation (and I haven't been around to see it earlier if this was made clear previously), but the other responses just struck me as short excuses in a ploy to gain new users.
You'll just have to forgive me if I factor in more than actual money here, because I think it matters.
That said, I have yet to check when my license was obtained. I fully want to see the success of this campaign, as FGC is really showing its age.
*I don't work for SW*Quote:
Originally Posted by Teknykk
No. I don't, and neither does the rest of the real world. SW has supported their user base with free upgrades for a very, very, very, very long time. New users have not had the entirety of that free ride.
Time for the *loyal* users to plunk down some coin, for the new product.
And I'm more than willing. I just wasn't aware of how different the prices would be. Though I think people should remember that without those loyal users, we might not be here today.Quote:
Originally Posted by seycyrus
There are many ways SW could have chosen to tier the upgrade price. Including have one set price across the board. Or perhaps the value added to the community at large would be a good measure like implied. But then how would you measure that? By # of forum posts? Or forum reputation? or number of times you have used the game alias feature (if they even track that type of data).
In the end, SW seems to have chosen the industry standard, and then been more generous with it.
As for the other replies to this query. They have probably been short and less than they could be because today alone this question has been asked here and on other sites at least a dozen time. It's something that has been discussed here and elsewhere for probably a year or more.
BUT, it doesn't mean that it is not a valid question/concern. It just means people might not answer in as full or sensitive manner as they might have otherwise.
Well put. What other company puts out updates on a weekly basis? It's unheard of.Quote:
Originally Posted by seycyrus
So you're getting Ultimate FGU for $60 instead of $150. Plus you've used it for however many years you've had FGC already. A $90 discount doesn't cut the mustard, eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Teknykk
So, you joined the FG community, contributed to it in some way and had many hours of enjoyable gaming (because of Fantasy Grounds) and you expect something back for that beyond a 60% discount? Was that kind of expectation *ever* set? I assume you bought products because you needed them or just wanted to see them, you contributed to the community because you wanted to or felt that was a nice thing to do, you played many hours of gaming (facilitated by FG) because you enjoy the hobby and playing with other players. Why would doing all of that entitle you to some form of frequent flyer discount beyond the 60% discount you're already getting?Quote:
Originally Posted by Teknykk
If you read back through the FGU threads, it's always been stated that any discount will be based off length of time of use of FG (when you bought your license) with the discount being more for new users, and the catch-phrase has always been "buy Fantasy Grounds for what it is now, not what it might be in the future". Quite frankly it staggers me that there are a number of people who have had many hours use out of Fantasy Grounds and feel entitled to a bigger discount or aggrieved that someone who's only bought it recently gets a bigger discount. I'm very happy that relative newcomers to Fantasy Grounds get an 80% discount (assuming an Ultimate license) to enable them to move to the new platform and keep exploring the wonders of Fantasy Grounds. I'm also incredibly pleased that SmiteWorks have extended a 60% discount to me as a "veteran" user - thanks SmiteWorks!
I don't get the entirety of this *loyal user* line of reasoning. It's not like you are some philanthropist who anonymously funded Doug's education, or bought SW their first batcave are you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Teknykk
I use FG because its by far the best product out there! While there are CERTAINLY users out there who go out of their way to support FG in the form of extensions, rulesets and other material, I'm not one of them. I don't think you are either.
Where's my free cask of Belvenie for being a loyal customer all these years?
I think enough has been said on the topic; and we should move along to more interesting notes, like:
The KS is up to $120K, and Doug and I need to get working on more goals.
JPG
Uuuh, congrats for that success of the KS :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Moon Wizard
I'd hate to beat the same horse but... what about those sexy Asset Packs!
Not to beat a dead horse (well, ok.. just a little)... I bought into FG back in Feb 2016 with an Ultimate sub. $10/month, kept it going since then (sure, I could have just bought the onetime license, but I'm lazy I guess). So, I've paid $380ish dollars for Ultimate, and I've spent $1100 on DLC since then. So, I'm in about $1500 right now.
And I'll keep my FGC sub going through at least December, AND I ponied up for the Newcomer Ultimate on the KS.
Why? Because this product has brought me and my friends joy and memories that are worth more than mere money to me. Also, I can afford to do this (some folks may not be able to).
Anyway, not once during this process did I feel like FG was trying to get more out of me than they deserve. Just the opposite in fact... the generosity of their business model is staggering.
Thanks Doug, Dave, Moon, Jen, and all the other Smities...
and thanks too to Trenloe, Lord Entrails, Zaccheus, DuluxOz, Rob2E, and countless others who work tirelessly to promote FG, help the users, and create content and extensions for us... without pay.
THAT is why FG is the dominant force in VTTs, and why *I* am happy to keep giving my time and money to this project.
So yea, what are you doing for the next 6 stretch goals? Though I really like art assets, I'm not seeing much differentiation here at the moment. EDIT: maybe modern/future? etcQuote:
Originally Posted by Moon Wizard
Maybe a different style or artist? Or perhaps more portraits? (which we don't know how many are in the initial offering anyway). Or what about other GM tools like... NPC personality generator? Or Tavern name and description generators?
Maybe... new dice skins? (If that is even a FGU possibility)
I think your words were the best said out of everything! I wholeheartedly agree with you!Quote:
Originally Posted by iotech
I can think of a few, so I won't place one company on a pedestal over it, and I don't think it really matters as far as my concerns were.Quote:
Originally Posted by Temmpest
As I said, depends on what else I factor in. In the end I doubt it would matter what I say, because it's pretty obvious some people are willing to defend against any opposing concern on the matter, and relentlessly in some cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnD
I don't think it entitles me, or anyone for that matter, no. I never expected anything, but I have also catered to a number of players who'd paid nothing themselves. Some of those people would now be paid users. My point is, I don't believe anyone should've been entitled to a bigger discount than the rest. My concern was purely from the thought that I in fact did think everyone would pay the same, or very similar, based on their license type. As I said, I wasn't around if it had been clearly stated earlier. I've had my own health issues in the last year gone, including depression, to not really be able or willing to be active to read anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trenloe
Now that Doug explained it, again for me in depth, I perfectly understand the reasoning, even though I do wonder if there could've been another way. But I'm no businessman.
I'm sure it is for you, and I've stuck with it because I don't like the approach of the others. And I have gone somewhat out of my way to contribute optional content. Most of, but not all of it, has been held back by copyright fears, so I've left it to personal and private use only.Quote:
Originally Posted by seycyrus
But I've gotten a clear explanation, and I see no reason go further on it now. That said, I've never backed crowdfunding. My biggest fear is even if it gets the funding, it will fail to deliver in one way or another. It was always a risk in the past, and in recent years that risk has actually increased with campaigns gaining funding but never following through to the end. And you can't always expect you'll get your money back either.
The thing that interests me right now is the assets packs. I assume those will be sold later on their own, or are they exclusively intended to be for those who back it on Kickstarter? Most of all, are those stretch goals going to go to every license backer, regardless of what they contribute?
We have some ideas for future packs but we thought we would have a little more time to pull them together fully. Those first asset packs were supposed to last a bit...
Teknykk,
The plan is to make the asset packs unlocked during the KS available to everyone.
Regards,
JPG
I said it 50 pages ago and ill say it again. I want my stretch goal Pizza order button. But seriously, though great job guys. Ive been lighting the fires to Gondor all day getting people to hit up this KS and the energy is electric.
Digressing I do have a stretch goal suggestion I'd like to see that shouldnt be too difficult. a "height indicator" for tokens for those pesky flying creatures thatll show height and maybe calculate distance when attack with ranged.
TFW the old dogs have to pay double. :confused:
Define "really good" - someone who holds an Ethical Hacker Cert, for eg?Quote:
Originally Posted by Moon Wizard
Oh, oh, I know the correct syntax for nmap, does that count??Quote:
Originally Posted by dulux-oz
Shame on you for being so successful!Quote:
Originally Posted by ddavison
Now don’t go thinking this is all because Unity has been hyped for so long that you can just dangle the next version over our heads for another several years :p
Will add-on items be fulfilled when FGU is released or sooner? I ask because those are existing products, and it'd be great to be able to use some of those in FGC while waiting for FGU. I understand it would at the earliest have to be after the KS ends and the questionnaire process happens, anyways.
Great job on the Kickstarter! I hope everyone at SmiteWorks is able to rest tonight. I think you'll have a lot of stretch goals to come up with! :)
If you don't mind answering, how is the Kickstarter going compared to expectations?
I figured the goal was set intentionally low because the product was probably coming out regardless of KS success and a quick funding success tends to bring more more attention to the project and thus more backers. But because you're still thinking of new stretch goals, maybe it's more successful than initially anticipated.
Just curious.
So to make sure I have the right of it. I think I do, but I want to make sure. If my Steam says I got the Ultimate Upgrade (it was added later, as my original license was Standard) on 10/07/2017, then I would indeed need to pledge the $60 one in Kickstarter? Which is actually $85 for me, but whatever. Or have I got this wrong?
That's correct Tek, the $60 USD pledge is the one to go for.