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Originally Posted by JoshuaBarbeau

More parents than ever before want some kind of positive activity for their kids to do after school that encourages social development, teamwork, math, language, and cooperative problem-solving skills.

An excellent example! My daughter plays in a Sunday group for kids who need help developing social skills. The game is run through a local counseling service. The young man who runs it is paid per player, and it's so popular, he now has two groups of 5+ kids.

Also, come on man. You can make your points about why you dislike paid-for games without going so low as to call me a prostitute.

Yup, made this point as well.

I find it hard to believe that anyone would argue against that particular use-case of professional GM. I think most that are against it are against the "hobby"-play GMs that are charging for their time. But, just like prostitution (or any vice, for that matter), it's (hobby-paid) only there because there is a demand for it for some reason.

I'm a professional GM and children's entertainer. I'm not going to get into the think of this discussion because I don't feel particularly motivated to argue any of the points (most of which have been argued to death already). I will just raise one point which I've not seen addressed once since everyone is approaching this topic from the mindset of "we're all adults and this is an adult game."

More kids than ever before are wanting to play Dungeons & Dragons. More parents than ever before want some kind of positive activity for their kids to do after school that encourages social development, teamwork, math, language, and cooperative problem-solving skills. Most (but not all) of my "clients" are parents and/or schools who have hired me to run games for groups of kids for a couple of hours after school. These kids love playing D&D, and the parents love that it is administered by a trained adult with children care skills who can supervise them and mentor them during play. Anyone who would argue that this is in any way like prostitution makes me feel sick to the core. The service I provide is more like a friggin' after-school soccer coach. There is a lot of positive things that this business I am running is doing for those kids, and I'd argue that this alone is a perfect justification for the existence of my business.

Also, come on man. You can make your points about why you dislike paid-for games without going so low as to call me a prostitute.

I was once paid to run a weekly game. At first it felt strange and odd to be paid for something I would have done for free. The people I was playing with insisted on paying for the game. I did have an initial worry that if I was too hard on them during the game that they would not want to play any longer. That was quickly dispelled the first time I killed one of the characters in what should have been a mundane battle with a mid-boss fight. They loved it and the player rolled a new character. I was no more lenient in the gameplay than I would have been in a "free" game. Any paid GM should hold a session 0 like any other game and outline this guidance and establish their expectations versus the group's. In the end if they want easy mode, then they get what they paid. I don't believe most people feel that way.
Here is the key thing. I would have never become friends with this group playing online. They were all friends looking for an experience in playing this game. I was the facilitator of the game, and they were paying me to remain committed to providing original content and running the game. In the end it was a pure business transaction. We all had fun and I pocketed some extra money.
In the end, I see nothing wrong with my time, which is the only commodity we have to barter with, being paid for.
I currently run a "free" game with people I'll probably never become true friends with, but we have fun together. In the end I see no difference between running a free game and getting paid to run a game with strangers on the internet. The analogy that you wouldn't pay to play a game is a bit flawed as I'm sure many of us have spent money to rent a table or played games at a shop and bought something while we are there. It is not unheard to reward the people who sponsor games. The paid GM is just a more direct way to get that result.

Originally Posted by Frunobulax

Well, that's not strictly true, is it, that "it's up to them." In the license for the extensions you've written you specifically prohibit them form being used in paid games. Everyone ignores it, of course, but it seems rather petty of you to be honest. If you want to take a "live and let live" approach you would remove the restriction. It wouldn't change anything, but it would be a nice symbolic display of gamer unity and freedom to choose the way we play.

Can't believe I missed this, but F is spot on with this. Can't have it both ways: "I totally respect your decision to pay for your games, but you aren't going to use MY (super useful and essential, and I mean that ) work while doing it...because I don't like paid games".

Originally Posted by dulux-oz

I'm talking about the inherent "conflict of interest" and increased potential for for corruption ie the referee being paid by one of the team of players (the only one) and the resulting potential fo the GM/referee to "go easy" on the players *because* if he doesn't then the players (ie the money source) may not come back.

I've been in a number of paid games now and I can categorically say those things just don't happen. First and foremost, in paid games the cost is shared by all the players, so there can be no favoritism. Second, since no one in the world, I think, makes their living by being a paid GM, the incentive to keep customers by coddling them is nonexistent. Everyone understands that games come and go, players come and go, and life goes on. It's not the same as, say, a salesman who works on commission. A GM would do *far* better and make a lot more money by just being a good, honest, talented craftsman who runs interesting and fun games instead of trying to weasel a few extra bucks by "going easy" on them. Good GMs constantly raise or lower the difficulty based on how things go anyways, it's part of the job,

You are also ignoring the huge benefits of paid games. I've been in a couple now and I LOVE them. Some of the best games I've every played! They run so differently. First, everyone shows up and they show up on time. There is a LOT less "oh I can't play tonight I want to watch a movie instead" kind of thing, a lot less dropping out at the last minute. People put it in their schedule and make other commitments around it - which they should do for any game but most don't take very seriously when it's free. If they know they can;t make it, they let the others know well ahead of time so rescheduling is possible.

Secondly, there is MUCH less screwing around and getting nothing done during the session. Sure, people still joke around and have fun, but generally they want the story to progress and do not waste time on stupid stuff. In one free game I was in, a guy with hundreds of gold pieces in his pocket took up about 40 minutes of game time haggling with a weapons merchant just to try to save a few coppers on a plain old mace. That kind of thing just doesn't happen in paid games.

Also, while the "money incentive" provides an incentive to the GM to do their homework, be prepared. plan ahead, and so on. And they feel pride in their work, get a good reputation, and feel like they get something tangible for all the hours it takes.

In general I'm saying people value things thy pay for a lot more than free things. As they say, "no one washes a rented car." When people are paying for a game they take it more seriously and try harder to squeeze in a lot of roleplaying and fun rather than sitting around chitchatting about nothing. Also, "problem" players are much more likely to be kicked out because no one wants their paid game to be ruined by some moron who can't behave.

I heart my paid GM!

Originally Posted by dulux-oz

IBut if people want to do it then that's up to them - I've outlined why I don't favour the practice, and its a position I've come to after many long hours of careful consideration over many years.

Well, that's not strictly true, is it, that "it's up to them." In the license for the extensions you've written you specifically prohibit them form being used in paid games. Everyone ignores it, of course, but it seems rather petty of you to be honest. If you want to take a "live and let live" approach you would remove the restriction. It wouldn't change anything, but it would be a nice symbolic display of gamer unity and freedom to choose the way we play.

Well as GM's we all know how much work it is to run a Campaign for our Players. Even running a official module takes work. For the most of us GM's that is part of the fun, many do that for Friends, so okay.
But: i could totally understand ppl that make this Gm ing for theyr Living. If they offer their Players a good, reliable Service, why not?
Seeing some streams in yt or twitch i cant help of thinking: yes, that Looks like so much fun, why should i not pay some Money to be part of it? Why not? Going to watch a movie or a theatre,Football game - anything entertaining will cost me some Money.
I cant see any wrong in beeing a professional GM

Comin' in late, comin' in hot...

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and of course the OP has stated his clearly. And it's ok to have that opinion. Simply put, D-O will not pay nor charge for RPGs he's involved in. But it's the justifications that are off base IMO.

Pretending that all RPGs are within the sanctity of everlasting friendship (I may be exaggerating here) and that is what makes it a great game is ludicrous. What about games at conventions? The RPG rooms at Gen Con, Origins et el are packed to the gills with people who have PAID to be there. And while those GMs did not directly receive cash from the players, each and every one of them was compensated for the time spent running those games. I have been in some EPIC one-shots at conventions with people I have never met, and have never seen again, and still will tell stories about what happened. No one thinks twice about forking over the badge fee, event fee, etc for a convention, and in these cases your players and GM are sight unseen. I've also been in some games with not so good GMs, but wrote it off as bad luck for the money spent. And btw, I tell stories about how bad those games were as well.

As far as 'conflict of interest' or the 'corruption' involved...what GM worth his/her salt doesn't fudge the dice or change on the fly for the benefit of the story? I've never been paid for a game - thought about it, still thinking about it, but it hasn't happened...yet. But I've fudged plenty in 40+ years of gaming in order to make the story better for all involved. I've also had bad luck take down many players in that time, and yet they keep coming back. Because the story is good. The money should make no difference. A good GM (and person) will have that discussion up front (along with quite a bit of other details) with their players. "Listen, we are in this together for the story, and while I appreciate your support, we aren't going to do this any differently because of the business relationship. My only guarantee is we will have fun." And if they aren't having fun, they are free to walk. It seems to me that the games I've seen advertised are a 'pay as you play' setup, so you aren't out $200 for a campaign you hate if you walk. You've only paid for the sessions you've been in. There is the added bonus that if the game sucks, the GM will be out of paying customers...problem solved.

The point D-O made that paid games = paid sex is just foolishness. Games with friends are fun, leave lasting marks, and provide endless stories. But they are NOT sacrosanct events that can only be achieved by the closest of friends and comrades. Stating otherwise is to be speaking from high upon the horse of righteousness, looking down on the the poor masses who will never understand true gaming greatness. To say that paying for the gaming experience cheapens it demonstrates a lack of empathy for the thousands of people who - I don't know - pay money every year (Gen Con, Origins) to play their games with strangers.

In the end, you vote with your $$$. Don't like it? Don't pay. But let's stop being so sanctimonious about it.

First of all, I do not get paid to GM, nor do I pay for that service as a player. However, I ask you to consider this: people pay master storytellers to entertain them -- Book Clubs, and other organizations pay for engagements with authors all the time. Should a GOOD storyteller who's medium happens to be Role Playing Games, not be afforded the same privileges?

As I said above, I have never paid a GM to conduct a game though if they were REALLY good, I might consider it.

If you want paid for your authoring/storytelling ability, package it up and sell it to others, IMHO. Good luck.