Focus on DM Tools? Y\N

[Sigurd]

Of course every simple improvement should be implemented but it occurs to me that FG is much more frustrating as a DM because you work with the interface more intently.

At this point, with ruleset wizards making things better for players, I'd love to see Smiteworks concentrate on making the DM's life easier. Attracting DMs is really necessary to growing the program and the hobby. The player sheet has seen far more care and modification than the NPC Sheets or the image, token and storyline systems.

I've had DMs simply drop out and I'm sure it was in part that the job simply got too difficult or took up too much time.

Is this a popular sentiment?

[Oberoten]

I am sure that most developers are in fact DM's. They do after all tend to be the ones most .. eh... obsessive about their games. (Myself included) My thought on this is that it would indeed be a good thing for SW to make the DM's work a lot easier.

How about drawing tools like lines, hexgrids, or even just a distance-counter for those systems that doesn't use neither squares nor hexes?

((If the last one was implemented I'd be all over making a WHFB mod.... ;) ))

- Obe

[Ged]

A good poll. I am not voting but will be very interested in the results. The level of specificity is such that it is very useful - it is not too detailed.

[Valarian]

I'd love to see the floating licenses implemented. If I could register Lite licenses with the Full version I've got, I could demo games other than Fantasy d20. I would recommend going with the three tier model suggested on other threads. With a registered Demo license (can connect only if GM has registered Lite licenses), the Lite license (as current) and the Full license (as current with ability to register Lite licenses for Demo connections).

[The Alchemist]

As it is now, FGII is far more developed than any other VTT application out there. (I have been around studying and trying to find an application that I would like to both DM with and Play on.) From what I have seen so far, It is almost a perfect replica of the Table Top experience. There are a few things I would like to see implemented. But besides those minor things I have seen a lot of amazing stuff that you just don't get with the competition.

I previously had been using AIM to join the group together, though that leads to dice cheaters, and from there we were planning on moving to Open RPG, though it is admittedly a primitive solution. And stopping dice cheaters is easier with it but it seems impersonal. (I have also found a way to cheat the dice on it. So I am not to sure about others doing the same thing.)

With FGII I've got to say, showing my gaming group some of the features and everyone is real excited about possibly implementing it as our dedicated gaming platform.

I would love to have a scrollable and scalable chat box. More drawing tools, and possibly a dock for minimized items. So far it's the best VTT I have found. So I can't complain.

[Valarian]

As it is now, FGII is far more developed than any other VTT application out there. (I have been around studying and trying to find an application that I would like to both DM with and Play on.) From what I have seen so far, It is almost a perfect replica of the Table Top experience. There are a few things I would like to see implemented. But besides those minor things I have seen a lot of amazing stuff that you just don't get with the competition.
I agree. Doesn't mean we can't ask for improvements :)
Especially when we ask so nicely. ;)


I would love to have a scrollable and scalable chat box. More drawing tools, and possibly a dock for minimized items. So far it's the best VTT I have found. So I can't complain.
The chat box can be scrolled within the buffer limit using page up/page down or the mouse wheel. For minimised items, I tend to place them along the right hand side, following the right hand toolbar. I tend to have the story and image boxes down the bottom of the screen. The screen centre is for images, maps and character sheets (when opened).

[Foen]

Hmm, I'd rather not start down the 'wishlist three' route, but on the wider theme I think there should be three target groups:

Players
Referees/GMs
Developers

And I'd vote for improvements that help the third bunch of guys (developers) deliver great functionality to the other two. Of course I'd say that, but there is a bit of a distinction between engine development and ruleset development. If the engine is right, the rulesets can be better, but if the engine is wrong, rulesets are limited.

This is already a great platform with which to work, so high level strategy seems bang on course. Top two things (back to that wish list, I guess) would be better multi-user access to shared resources (shared combat trackers etc seem to be bumping against this issue), and greater exposure of the internal APIs (where built-in functionality cannot be replicated in script).

Just my 2c!

Stuart

[Sigurd]

I can agree with Foen that the biggest improvements come from working up the tree: Developer, Game Master, Player. Helping developers is an investment and I'm in favour of it too. I also think that FG is the best available program but how does it stay that way, and more importantly how does it make its users happier and more satisfied.

I'd argue that there is a chance, especially with the demise of the D20 restrictions to make online gaming _easier_ than table top gaming. I think FG is in a unique place to do that because the interface is so elegant.

I'm thinking mostly of data juggling. Better module, note and personality support would be a huge help. Its not a tweak or a modification but an expansion of the dm tools. That's why I think it has to come from Smiteworks.

It seems like the focus for FG has been the game in play not the game in creation - a formula for not creating new games. An Adventure writing aid or a custom Word processor would be huge! Make DMing 10% easier and I'm sure you'll see 10% more DMs. They'll stay in the hobby longer and they'll create custom material. Each DM will look for 2+ people and so on and so on.

If nothing else changed in the interface but FG made it easier to manage game data or write adventures, games would increase. Everything else is important but I think data juggling and adventure writing are the most neglected piece of the puzzle.

I've run a campaign weekly for 50+ weeks. I have a million notes, many I didn't write. A hundred graphics, and a story line that I mostly have to write from memory at the end of each session.

There's a whole computer not helping me to organize my pictures, or work with my story arc. The program offers no new support beyond the operating system for me to keep playing or writing. I have seen very few dm's enter prepared text because its too much of a bother. I haven't seen one casually available adventure module but I've seen a dozen rulesets.

FG gaming should be easier than pen and paper because so much of the story is already digital and ready to be manipulated.

I don't want to have to retype anything that's already in the system and I want better help to organize and find things. As a DM I want the program to do more work for me. I want to associate images with text. Let me call up last session's chatlog, in game, without leaving the interface. I don't think it is a huge programming challenge to parse the chatlog better.

I'm in favour of everything else too but don't you think improving DM support has largely been ignored? Right now I think a lot of story arcs end in frustration for everyone because DMing is hard work. Undeniably much of that is the nature of the rules, but the interface could be made much more helpful for DMs. Not doing so shortens campaigns and leaves more players and dm's unsatisfied.

Every crappy task made easier for the DM generates time to consider players and make game sessions better. Each player wants time from the DM who has too much to juggle. Make it easier in the DM chair and more people will be (or stay) DMs.

Sigurd

[The Alchemist]

You bring up some good point's Sigurd, but I think your asking for a whole suit of DM adventure building tools. While it would be nice to have those as a part of the FGII experience I think It might be sufficient to say that's asking for a lot. FG is here to bring the table top to the internet and let us Take the adventure to a whole new group of people.

Everything you have mentioned are no doubt things that people would appreciate and undoubtedly use. But they are not the key components to making online PnP RPGs better or easier. As a DM I sit back, I write out adventurer hooks on a trusty pad of paper no bigger than my hand throughout the day whenever something hits me. Then later on at night I turn on my laptop and I start fleshing it out a bit on OOo Writer, After taking care of that introductory stuff and finding some supplementary material. (maps images etc... ) I am about ready for a game, all I need are some characters to lead through the adventure.

Running a game is the most difficult part of being a DM, and making that part easier is what we should be looking for. So little tool additions that let us take our already prepared material that could be used around the table and bringing it into the VTT with ease is what we should focus on.

Outside of that, how about a share option to show something to just one person? Rather than just /whisper to them actually share an image or block of notes.

(as for associating an image with text, you can already do that, just make a link to the image before your block of text.)

[joeru]

Outside of that, how about a share option to show something to just one person? Rather than just /whisper to them actually share an image or block of notes.

(as for associating an image with text, you can already do that, just make a link to the image before your block of text.)

You can drag an image/story page's shortcut box to a player's portrait and FG shares it with only that person.

As for the focus of further development, I think FG works well as it is on the player-side. Therefore anything to help GMs create and run campaigns would in my opinion be of more use to the community in general. Considering GMs can only work as effectively as the ruleset allows them to, it would also mean allowing ruleset developers more control over FG (both by extending the API and clarifying the already existing methods).

[Valarian]

Outside of that, how about a share option to show something to just one person? Rather than just /whisper to them actually share an image or block of notes.
Drag the small grey box in the story list to the player portrait to share with just that one person.

[Griogre]

You can also drag and drop chat frame text and it will whisper it to the player.

[The Alchemist]

Oooo Thanks. Haha. The Library thing seems to leave stuff like this out... unless I am overlooking things....

[Griogre]

The dragging of shortcut links to open the link only for an indiviual is in the docs, I think.

The dragging of chat frame text, I don't think is documented. I don't think the drag and dropping of a number or die roll out of the chat window and onto a PC portrait is either. I don't think the drag and dropping of dice or modifiers into the special abilities frame on the character sheet is either - but I haven't read the docs in a long time. :p

If in doubt, in FG it never hurts to try drag and dropping items. The default interface makes heavy use of drag/drops and the mouse wheel - and uses a lot of inheritance and OOP – so that ripples through out the interface. Which is usually good design, but can sometimes be extremely frustrating. :p

[The Alchemist]

Ohh heres a good one I was trying to figure out. A friend of mine dragged a number into her strength mod accidentially when filling out the character sheet.
It put a +10 token on the modifier... how do you remove that?

[Griogre]

Are you talking about a +10 "white bubble"? Roll the mouse wheel down until it is gone.

[EugeneZ]

Are you talking about a +10 "white bubble"? Roll the mouse wheel down until it is gone.
You may have to hold Ctrl while rolling the mouse wheel...

[The Alchemist]

Ohh gott thank you Now if she does it again I can just fix it >.> rather than listen to her complain about how we should do something 'easier' like use cameras ICQ and VOIP.

[Sorontar]

Ohh gott thank you Now if she does it again I can just fix it >.> rather than listen to her complain about how we should do something 'easier' like use cameras ICQ and VOIP.

Yeah but how do you get away with GMing naked then? :D

[Tenian]

Yeah but how do you get away with GMing naked then? :D

Fear the Purple Worm

[The Alchemist]

Yeah but how do you get away with GMing naked then? :D
Hrmmm well for most people you don't.. though I think I am shameless enough to not care hahaha.

[Phystus]

Overheard in a tavern catering to adventurers....

It's the darndest thing, lately all the treasures we've found have been either Rods of Lordly Might or Wands of Wonder....


OK, to get somewhat back on topic... :D

My vote is for more DM tools, and I second Sigurd's suggestions. In particular, better word processing tools would help a lot, as would the ability to use subfolders to organize images.

~P

[The Alchemist]

Yea subfolders would be great to order images and such, especially if you are doing an on the fly situation, having some extra material organised together to handle such things. (since face it players dont always follow the story you already have written. And you can't know EVERYTHING they may try ahead of time.)

[Bidmaron]

The ability to have actual hot-links between entries instead of forcing such links to be boxes at the start of a line or the first text would be priceless. The story window should be more like an html page from a functionality standpoint. It is ridiculous that we can't put a picture into a story entry also.

[Tenian]

It's important to remember that an image in FG isn't just a static picture. It is actually an object with a lot of code behind it (grids, tokens, masks, ect)

[Sigurd]

Re: Photos

Perhaps it could be accomplished with a stripped down object type. Something without the code overhead.

I'm not sure what that would do to bandwidth issues. Sharing a story full of pictures would potentially be a fair bit of data.

Sigurd

[Bidmaron]

It's important to remember that an image in FG isn't just a static picture. It is actually an object with a lot of code behind it (grids, tokens, masks, ect)
OK, but how does that affect the need to be able to put pictures into a story entry? Don't get me wrong, I love FG2, but it direly, desperately needs more sophisticated linking in story entries. It is just so arbitrary that you have to put the link at the start of a line. And I don't think more liberal linking disturbs the feeling of the gaming table.

[Tenian]

I too would love if I could put links anywhere, and links as pure underlined text as opposed to links with gray boxes next to them. That is not what I was commenting on. I was commenting on actually placing an image within a story entry. Something that I assume would look like:



<p>
Story text
</p>
<img = "blah.jpg">
<p>
more story text.
</p>


I was commenting that (currently) images in FG2 are not simply static graphics, they have all sorts of underlying code, thus throwing one in the middle of a story window is more than just displaying the image. So embedded images might not be as simple as they seem.

[Bidmaron]

Roger, Tenian, but it'd be a great advance just to have plain old, do nothing but look nice picture in story entries (or any other window for that matter -- yes I know you can circumvent with an icon, but icons are hard to install, relatively).