Helpful Advice?

[phloog]

I used FG in my first game this weekend. It was a True20 game, so already much of the functionality was a bit off because I was using a freely available stab someone took at a True20 sheet (for which I'm thankful, but I would love an official and fully-working version).

But the point for this post is the grid...this functionality seems clunky to an extreme...very inflexible.

I figured I was just doing something wrong in my first game, because I was trying to do something I thought was simple...'SNAP' a FG grid to an existing grid on a pre-made module. But I could never get it even close...I thought that there must be a nice way to adjust the grid...

When I got to the Library, my spirits lifted as I saw "Adjusting the Grid" as a topic...I clicked on it and got this:

"Adjusting the Grid

Disable the grid.
Crate (sic) a new grid using the methods described in 'Enabling the Grid'"

Seriously. Deleting and trying again is NOT 'adjusting'

I imagined what this advice might look like in other industries:

"Adjusting the contrast on your new plasma television:

Return the television to the store
Purchase a television with a contrast you like with the methods described in "Buying a TV""

Are there plans to improve this? (or actually ADD real adjustment)?

Thanks,
JT

[Griogre]

Probably not. It is not an easy problem to solve. Building on you television analogy you would be trying to tune into a broadcast channel than is a random number that shifts around from time to time with a TV that only picks up integer values. The real problem is not the TV - it is the channel. Or in your case – it’s the map not FG.

There are several issues, some which are more easily addressed than others. The first problem is that FG’s grid assumes the grid is set to integer values (whole numbers). It is pretty easy to fix your map, if this is a problem, by rescaling the map to adjust the grid size. There is also the fact that even with a real number grid that monitors work best on whole number settings – you can’t really cut on half a pixel – you can dither the pixels but that kinda defeats the propose of a precision setting. Dithering encourages grid drift. If you have a preexisting grid on a map the odds are very good, even it was originally set for a whole number, the grid is no longer “true,” square or an integer value. This can happen just because the map was scanned, or it can happen because of dithering, or because a drawing tool algorithm redrew the grid and moved it slightly when someone resized or converted the image type.

Cutting to the chase. The best thing to do if you have a map with a grid on it is to not use the FG grid. You will save a lot of annoyance. If you really want both then you should resize a map with the grid so the grid lines are on integer values - it’s a little basic algebra but easy to do (though because of grid drift the odds are really against a perfect fit). Xorn mentions one method how to do this in his Map Rescaling video tutorial on the FG download page here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/downloads/ (scroll down – its on the bottom right under community tutorials). Bear in mind that if the grid is far out of “true” resizing will only partly work or only work along one axis.

In a perfect world the map would have no grid and you would just use FG’s grid as close enough.

Edit: added punctuation, coherency :p

[Sorontar]

Griogre has it bang on pretty much.

If the maps aren't that big a little tidy up to remove the grid in anything as basic as paint could be in order, I've also found that if you start the grid in the center of the map where the action is then the drift is out at the corners.

[Sigurd]

Hey Phloog,

To make a new grid in FG, enter the layers radial menu and simply draw a square on your map over an item that gives you a good idea of scale. Fantasy grounds fills the rest of the map with squares of the same size, in line with the first one. I've reused a lot of maps with scales tailored for each encounter.

Grids are very well handled for my uses.

Did you take your tokens from the combat tracker to the map? The combat tracker does more than organize combat, it also establishes the identity of the sample token. (Actually, very clever I think). If you plop a token from anywhere else on the map it could be a tree, bridge, Winnebago etc.... The program can't know.

For some of the more ambitious things FG does, like colour squares or scale indiv. tokens, you need to pull the token from the combat tracker. If it comes from the combat tracker it's a named combatant.

I hope you're not talking about the grids that might be embedded in the actual graphic file? I can't see them half the time, ya can't expect the program to Scan and understand all the graphics formats.


Sigurd

[phloog]

Actually, for some of the maps I did go in using Paint (I have lots of better tools on my desktop, but my laptop is my FG machine) and remove all of the normal gridlines, and for the most part the new FG grid worked on those...it's just a pain to have to go in and do this...for my own adventures I can just create maps without a grid and us FGs, but when I'm using scanned maps from pre-made modules it's an ordeal to wipe off all the grids to use FGs. And with the maps I've tried, leaving both grids in place is a horrible option.

Here's a related question then...would it be possible for the FG people to introduce an Inviso-Grid option? Basically a grid that exists and has meaning for characters and effect templates, but isn't seen once you tell it to vanish? That way I could do my 'close enough fit' of the pre-made map grid, then tell the grid to remain in control, but be invisible. Tokens would still work, templates would calc, but my eyes wouldn't burn from looking at slightly out of whack dual grids.

I wouldn't expect it to scan and recognize the existing grid, but I'd like more adjustment options beyond the 'nuclear option'.

[Griogre]

I think being able to change the grid color, including to transparent, would be a nice feature. The current grid lines are impossible to see on dark backgrounds, so for those maps, the ability to change the color to a light background would be nice - and if they do that then a third option to transparent should be easy for them to do.

If you are using the mask and you don’t mind using the FG drawing tools instead of unmasking then you can also get around the grid on the map. If an image has a grid on it already, it usually difficult to see the image’s grid through the mask, so if put FG’s grid on top of the mask FG’s mask will stand out. If you trace the map with the tool instead of unmasking you also avoid the double grid “cross-eyed stare.” I did this with the RA reloaded maps because it would have just been too much work for me to make separate player maps because the maps were loaded with DM only info and there were a lot of maps. Example here:

https://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m222/Griogre/RAFight.png

If you look closely you can see there is actually a grid on that cave under the mask and in the corridor but it is almost unnoticable under the mask. When I draw something like the dungeon corridor I just draw it to the FG grid. There are some other advantages to tracing a map on the mask and I talk about them here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7126

Sorry for the huge size of the pic but it's hard to see the grid under the mask if I don't use a high rez pic.

[phloog]

I might have to give that a try...certainly seems better than going into every map I run and editing out all the grids!

The color/transparent grid thing...is there a wishlist thread? (actually, I'll go look myself)...thanks for all the advice!

[Ged]

...is there a wishlist thread? (actually, I'll go look myself)...thanks for all the advice!
Right here (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8625).