Maps-downloading.

[gregorias]

My maps are often ~120kB size, typically it's small, but for FG it makes very long download times for my players. How can i present those maps in FG so there will be downloaded as their should be(i have 30kB upload speed)? I tried simply "share sheet" and exporting it to module and that sharing the map from the module, but seems it's not helping.

[Sigurd]

The speed of your file transfer in FG is really affected by two things.

1. The speed of the slowest connection. There is often some handshaking involved and clients wait for the slowest link.

2. You may have a 30k connection but that is often your down speed not your own up speed. It is your uplink speed that is shared by the clients. Most all internet accounts are optimized for download.


After that you have the vagaries of the web - something going on somewhere is affecting you.


Nothing Smite Works does can escape these affects.


Sigurd

[Foen]

It is also worth noting that compress image types (such as jpg) don't help: it is the *uncompressed* bitmap that is shared across FG's comms. Using a smaller colour depth is supposed to help.

The other thing to try is Astinus' common module method (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7313) - he played FG using dial-up and needed a way to create content which was loaded locally by his players.

Foen

[Griogre]

I wanted to reinforce Foen's comment. It's the uncompressed size of the map that is transferred not the file size. If you have a jpg map you should take a hard look at the actual uncompressed size (saving the map as a bitmap will give you a good idea of the images uncompressed size).

To give a rather typical example I have a large jpg that is 2.66 Megs. The uncompressed size is 36.91 Megs. Needless to say, I don't use this map in FG - it would take *forever* to transfer to six guys.

[gregorias]

Ok i tried this:


1. Created a module with images stored as 'client' data with no index (so players can't browse it).

2. Added a story entry stored as 'host' data and indexed it, so the GM can browse it but not the players.

3. Used the story data to link to the images. I just created one story entry with the image links on it.

4. Pre-distributed the module via download from website.

4. Force loaded the module. When you open the module and select an image from the story page you created, it loads locally on the player's computer.

1.&4. Step, ok I did it(players put that module file in data/modules)
5. Ok, I gave that module which i distrubated a "forced load" mark.
2&3. I don'n know what do I have to do here and dont really see why.
Result: It's not working.
Can somebody explain how to do it(2&3 i think)?

[Tenian]

If you send your players data in module form, they can decompress the module and get to the raw images. It is not possible to keep the data hidden from them.

Remember .mod files are just .zip files with a funny extension.

[gregorias]

Tenian it's ok. But you didn't help me at all. I have 30kB upload speed(Yes, it's upload! My download is 120kB) and FG seems to be using 1% or less of it. I need a way, where i can show my players those map(in FG of course, and silently so they wouldn't know they have those maps like .mod files) without having to wait 20 minutes for them to download. I tried that method but it didn't work, propably because i didn't do something i should have done. I've listed everything i did. So can somebody actually help me?

[Sigurd]

There is an option to preload maps. It works silently.


I'm afraid there aren't any backdoors I'm aware of beyond mailing the maps out ahead of time.



Sigurd

Sorry about the upload speed gaff but to help the most people you assume the least.

[Griogre]

Ok i tried this:


1. Created a module with images stored as 'client' data with no index (so players can't browse it).

2. Added a story entry stored as 'host' data and indexed it, so the GM can browse it but not the players.

3. Used the story data to link to the images. I just created one story entry with the image links on it.

4. Pre-distributed the module via download from website.

4. Force loaded the module. When you open the module and select an image from the story page you created, it loads locally on the player's computer.

1.&4. Step, ok I did it(players put that module file in data/modules)
5. Ok, I gave that module which i distrubated a "forced load" mark.
2&3. I don'n know what do I have to do here and dont really see why.
Result: It's not working.
Can somebody explain how to do it(2&3 i think)?
Gregorias, you don't need the 2&3 steps and they may be confusing you. You don't need to index. Astinus was a bit confused and missed the tab with the map in the linked post (at that time common tabs were combined into one). Once you distribute the module you should be able to force load it. On your end to get the map to pop you also need a copy of that client module with the map too. Activate the map module and then click the Maps and Images button on the desktop - there should be a tap with your map(s) in it. The trick is you need to share the maps from the module you distributed them from not your original campaign module.

[Ged]

FG sends images as they are, i.e. jpg-images are sent as jpgs, gifs as gifs etc; or if there is evidence to the contrary, there is something very weird going on. Thus, the actual file size does matter rather than the decompressed image dimensions. Masks and drawings (meaning the drawing layer on top of an image), on the other hand, are handled in png-format as it is technically convenient that way, and png compression works well for typical drawings and masks.

[Foen]

Ahh, this is good news but runs counter to received wisdom ... Damn! Who is it that provides this so-called wisdom anyway :D

Any light shed on this is welcome, thanks Ged.

Foen

[Griogre]

Ged, I have noted that heavily compressed images seemed to take much longer to transfer than their file size would justify. We have only empirical evidence of this though - so maybe we aren't that wise after all. ;)

***

I started to post the above and actually I got curious about this and started a new d20 campaign called “Large Map” with just that large map 2,721 KB jpg map which is 30 megs uncompressed. I then started a second instance as a player and shared it. I counted about 14 seconds to transfer to the second instance. I was really curious to see the size of the cache file and it was 2,698 KB a bit smaller than the map actually.

I next found an old screenshot, converted it to a BMP and resized it to get close to the size of the other file. I then created another d20 campaign called “Large BMP” and drop in the cropped screen BMP which was 2,774 KB. I then started the campaign and started a second instance and transferred the map and with me just counting off seconds it took about 16 seconds. The cache file was also a bit smaller than the image at 2,056 KB.

I tried this more than once, deleting the caches and the transfer times did seem to vary but nothing like 2.7 megs compared to 30ish.

I take several things away from this – 1) Ged is correct and the file size is important. 2) Even with a just a single player instance connected to the host it takes a *long* time to transfer big maps. I’ve got six players in my each of my games over the Internet. I’ve been letting the size of my maps creep up recently and I need to stop that and work harder at keeping the size of the files small.

[MeepoSose]

This is a very enlightening thread. I've compiled a collection of maps that amount to roughly 360MB of space. It sounds like this might be good to make into a common module and pre-deploy to everyone and just keep any DM-specific ones in a separate module.

[Sigurd]

I can see a good practice where fully explored regions get turned into "travel notes" modules. Unexplored stuff could be hidden but if a party has explored a small town for example they should have a good idea of its structure.

Sigurd

Thanks for the clear view of graphics formats. Glad to know my careful sizing and format choice isn't wasted.

[Foen]

The other thing to think about is Xorn's method of having smaller-scale DM maps of the dungeon and restricting shared large-scale maps to specific encounter areas.

Just a thought (and based on Xorn's previous tip).

Foen

[Xorn]

I do tend to use battlemaps that just show the immediate encounter area. My overland and city maps tend to be much smaller scale, and about the same size. I remember the pain I used to have sharing my 50 px/sq maps of Sunless Citadel. :)