Networking Help

[[email protected]]

So, I'm trying to host a game. To do so, I guess I need some ports forwarded through my routers. I guess this is complicaited by the fact that there are two of them (my qwest dsl modem/router, and my linksys router). Basically, the problem is that my first router can't find my second router if I assign it a static IP address. Right now both my routers are set to dynamic and my computer is set to a static IP address. I found a site where I can handle the port forwarding, but I can't get my linksys router to work with a static IP.

Anyone know about this stuff?


Cheers

[EugeneZ]

Well, this probably isn't the best solution and I hope someone will come up with a better one, but a static IP isn't *really* neccessary. Certainly not in the short term. Just obtain your Linksys router's IP (its in the control panel, something like WAN IP, doesn't start with 192.168.*.*) and pretend it's "static." Until you turn off either router (or one of them decides to restart/reconnect for some reason) it will work. And even if one of them DOES turn off, there's a good chance when they reconnect the IP will remain the same (depends on the DHCP IP assignment scheme).

Anyway, summary: Just use the router's current IP. You will need to change the IP the DSL router forwards to if this value does change at any point.

Heck, when I was younger and didn't know any of this stuff, I did just that on a much more simple setup where it wasn't neccessary and it worked fine.

If that doesn't work, you may want to look into turning off the firewall on one of the two routers. There's often no option to do this (as its generally a bad idea, but you have TWO firewalls) but if you google the model numbers, you should be able to find something...

[Oberoten]

Or use www.whatismyip.com (https://www.whatismyip.com) to find out what your current outside IP is.

[EugeneZ]

I don't think that's his problem, Oberton. Unless I'm somehow overcomplicating things, he has two routers. One router is behind the other. Typically when forwarding a port (like a FG port), each "client" must obtain a static IP which you then place in the IP field on the port forwarding setup of your router. This instructs the router to send incoming data for that port to that IP. If the IP changes, which in default configs using DHCP is entirely possible, your packets are lost. With a single router, this isn't an issue because you can easily configure Windows XP (or any other OS, for that matter) to use a static IP. With TWO routers, the router that's connected to the other router must obtain a static IP also so that the first router can forward packets to it. As the OP describes, this doesn't work for some reason.

[unerwünscht]

WOW.. come on people. Really?
Everyone who connects to the internet is connected through a series of routers, the OP has only added one extra hop. Its not that difficult. he simply needs to first identify all the steps in his connection. So lets assume he has a cable model and we will name it gateway, then a router connected directly to the cable modem, We will call that Router A, then another router in line we will call it router B, and then his computer.

You simply need to make sure your gateway is forwarding port 1802 to router A. Then make sure Router A is forwarding it to Router B. And then make sure Router B is forwarding to your computers IP address. Its as simple as that. I made a (if I do say so myself) very nice tutorial on how to configure a router for forwarding and identification of your network address. The same rules apply you just have to do it twice, once for each router.

[EugeneZ]

If you read the OP, he said he tried to exactly what you said but:


Basically, the problem is that my first router can't find my second router if I assign it a static IP address.

Now, I've had the exact same problems with ISP-provided router/modems in the past. So I provided a simple workaround. Thanks for the wonderful explanation of what a router is. A chart would have helped.

[Griogre]

As ezaretskiy mentioned you may be able to leave your first router on dynamic (though of course this is not ideal). Aside from your second router, what is plugged into the first router? If you had only the second router connected with the first then even with DHCP, barring power failures and a few other things, the odds of the second routers IP would changing would be low. You could help the odds in this case with making the first router assign maximum lease time.

If do have more things plugged into the first router then shifting them to the second would help. The other thing to consider is connecting to the first router and bypassing the second one.

[[email protected]]

The first router is only plugged into the second router and the phone line. I've been working on some of this and may have gotten a bit closer - now when I check to see if the port is open, it says connection refused instead of time out (or whatever). So, it seems as if something (router 1, router 2, or the computer) is getting it forwarded but is refusing it. The problem with this is, as far as I can tell everyone is forwarding it, and it's unblocked on my windows firewall (seems to be the only firewall I'm running - going to have to check through my routers in case of more).

Thanks for all the help everyone, I really appreciate it.


Cheers

[Oberoten]

Many routers have built in firewalls as well. Have you checked to see if they are opened for the same port?

[Griogre]

Actually I would go so far as to say almost every modern router (or switch) has a built in firewall.

[unerwünscht]

If you would like a step by step guide for adding a second router I can make it. Tho it will be a lot of work, I would rather wait to see if you will actually use it before making it.

[[email protected]]

I found a guide where I understand the concept of it. The problem seems to be that I can't access the firewalls on the routers - with regard to specifically changing them. There seems to be no way to actually edit the firewall on that one. The first router I set to low security on the firewall and it seems to let it through now. I've set both router to DMZ with regards to the computer - theoretically that disables the firewall in regard to that computer.

For a while, it was refusing the connection, then I set the first router to low security, then it was timing out (so not forwarding it correctly presumably) then when I messed with the second router it was refusing it again, then I messed around some more and it's timing out again. So as far as I can ascertain, it's stuck either on the second router or the computer.

Checking further, the second router is set to DHCP server, which apparently assigns IP addresses automatically to each computer. I'm unsure if this would override me manually setting the IP on my computer or not. If I turn DHCP off my computer continues to work but the other computers connected to the network do not.

Also, I set the static IP for my computer by adjusting the network connection - this is the correct way?


Cheers

[EugeneZ]

Also, I set the static IP for my computer by adjusting the network connection - this is the correct way?

Yes. There's no other way, in fact, AFAIK.

[[email protected]]

Ok, so here's what I've done, and frankly I'm not sure why it isn't working.

I directly connected my dsl router to my computer, in an effort to simplify this. I figure if the second router is the problem, I will at least have narrowed it down. Set the static IP up, followed directions on www.portforward.com and tried it out. According to the port check tool, the signal is timing out (not being refused). Which seems like it shouldn't happen - it's hitting the router, the router is forwarding it to the IP address I set for my connection.

Anyone know what could be wrong? The IP address it's being forwarded to is what I have the connection set to.


Cheers

[Griogre]

Run FG and scan port 1802 with the advance port scanner at www.pcflank.com. Make sure the port is open and not stealthed or closed.

[[email protected]]

"Stealthed" (by a firewall) -Means that your computer is invisible to others on the Internet and protected by a firewall or other similiar software;

Here's my result.

[Oberoten]

What antivirus/security program do you run? Anything else containing a firewall in other words?

[[email protected]]

Avast is the only thing I'm running; afaik there is no firewall component to it.

[unerwünscht]

LOL... are you still trying to figure this out?

Ok, since the first router has nothing but the 2nd router, and telephone line plugged into (im not really sure what purpose it servers other than making things complicated for you) but the easy way to do this would be to set router 2 into "dumb" mode or basically make it a switch. It would then just handle packet passing for the first router, and would become transparent for the network (you would be getting your IP address from the first router)

[zabulus]

The IP address it's being forwarded to is what I have the connection set to
What does this mean? You have to set it to the ip-address your host computer has in your local network. (So if your host computer says it's 1.2.3.4 on www.whatismyip.com and it says it's 5.6.7.8 if you type IPCONFIG in a dosbox, your port should be forwarded to 5.6.7.8, but your clients would make a connection to 1.2.3.4)

[[email protected]]

Ok, to clarify: I have the IP address that its set to be forwarded to is the local IP address (192.168.x.x). I was just saying I double checked that it was the correct one.

Also, as previously mentioned, I removed the second router, so now the computer is directly plugged into the first one. Going by everything I've seen, it should be really easy and just work without the second router complicating things; it does not however. I've double checked that everything is set correctly, and it appears to be. It just isn't working.


Cheers

[unerwünscht]

OK, at that point we need to identify the issue.
We know you can sync and authenticate, otherwise you wouldn't be online.
try opening a command window and entering 'tracert 77.240.21.133'

it will give you some data that looks like this:
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 * * * Request timed out
3 7 ms 9 ms 6 ms chicago.sbc.net
etc....


Any entry that has * * * is more than likely a firewall that could be causing an issue. You should only have to worry about the first 4 hops (one for your computer, one for the router, one for a modem, and one for your ISP) but it has been known from time to time for other firewalls to be in the route. Let us know what you find and we can move on to the next step.

[[email protected]]

None of the first 4 hops have a *, none of them timed out (15th hop has 2 *).

I tried completely turning off both avast and windows firewall to no effect.

Thanks for your help.


Cheers

[Griogre]

Your port is steathed. Turning off the firewall doesn't open ports. You need to open your port. To do that you need to turn on the firewall and figure out how to open port 1802.

[zabulus]

When I had the problem my port was stealthed, it turned out that my router had remembered an old computer I once had in my network with the same network address I wanted the port forwarded to. So it kept trying to forward to that other computer. Maybe check your router if it has a list of computers on your network and there are computers there that are not (or no longer) connected?

[joeru]

evan, what is your router's brand and model?

[[email protected]]

The router is Actiontec GT701-WG. I've reset my router and set all the configs again.

Firewall options are High, Medium, Low, and Basic. That's all. I can set the ports to forward, I can set DMZ (which theoretically turns the firewall off in relation to the computer it's set for). I've tried turning the firewall to low, forwarding the port to my computer, and setting the DMZ for my computer.

The router has a list of active connections, but all the computers on it are active (and have manually set IP).


Cheers

[unerwünscht]

The DMZ is short for a "Demilitarized Zone" it actually sets more restrictive use of the net than a firewall does. Firewalls typically block incoming ports, a DMZ blocks outgoing ports.

[[email protected]]

Huh, strange, the description is basically the opposite of that:

"Your DSL Modem can be configured to support Online Gaming and Internet Conferencing services on a network computer. To use this feature, enter the IP Address of the computer in the DMZ Host field below.

Warning: Using a computer in DMZ mode opens the computer to outside intrusion, creating a security risk. "


Cheers

[unerwünscht]

Oh, that would be a Demarcation Zone on the router, I guess also abbreviated DMZ in the end. That could get VERY confusing very fast, and yes placing equipment withing the Demarcation would place it beyond the routers firewall, and assuming that there are no other firewalls on your computer, and you have port forwarding configured correctly in your router, you should contact your ISP and make sure they arnt 1 blocking 1802, or 2 using it for something else.

And with that type of separation it should be noted that a computer in the Demarcation will be isolated form the other computers on your internal network.

[[email protected]]

Ok, I'm a tad confused. I have it set so no firewalls are in the way, but the trace thingy said it's stealthed by firewall. You are saying the ISP could set a firewall that would effect me?


Cheers

[unerwünscht]

That is absolutely correct. The best example of this is the "Great Firewall of China" but many other ISPs around the world are known to also have rather restrictive Firewalls. AOL is notorious for restrictive use, and word has it that SBC (AT&T) and Comcast are getting just as bad.

I know when I worked for Verizon you couldn't use port 7000-8000 for anything as they were filtered out by Verizons internal firewall. And at this point it sounds like you have done everything 100% correctly on your end so the issue is more than likely an in route firewall. The best way to discover this info would be to actually test the theory and change the port that Fantasy Grounds is using to a more common open port such as port 80 (tho I would not leave it on port 80)

[[email protected]]

How can I do that? And according to canyouseeme.org my port 80 isn't there either.


Cheers

[unerwünscht]

If it cant get your port 80 you still have a firewall somewhere in the works.
If your in the Demarcation Zone and still cant get port 80, it will more than likely be a firewall on your computer, or even a handful of viruses.

[Sorontar]

Do a google search for your router, I did one earlier but was going out the door on the way to a gig.

I noticed a couple of issues concerning stealthed ports and port forwarding. You may get some joy there as well.

Hope you get it sorted soon.

[[email protected]]

Ok, a lot of information...looked for a while, this is what I have got so far.

This is a pretty common problem.

Qwest does not block any ports.

My head hurts.


Cheers

[[email protected]]

Ok, so some good news. I updated all the firmware and drivers (why didn't I do this first? /bonk). With FG open, it says my port is open.

Had one of my players connet, everything is working. I wanted to thank everyone for all the help, you guys have been great.


Cheers

[unerwünscht]

I will have to remember to add that to my networking tutorial if I ever do an updated version of it. I don't think I would have ever thought to have you check your firmware version.

[Sorontar]

Excellent news, so glad you managed to sort out your problem.

[zabulus]

Congratulations Evangolden! Now on to the fun! :)