Fast Population of data

[Wenin]

I'm wanting to build my monster manual library module. Is there a way to speed up the inputing of the data? Some way outside of the interface?

[Sigurd]

Good question.


You can spend a couple of bucks and buy the SRD Monsters and Complete Minions at Digital Adventures

https://www.digitaladventures.net/fg_accessories.htm

Sigurd

[Wenin]

SRD Monsters = Monster Manual I 3.5?
Complete Minions = ???


I just may purchase those, but you really didn't answer my question.

[Tenian]

You can punch data into the XML file by hand, I'm not sure if that qualifies as "faster".

[unerwünscht]

Sigh, I'm sorry that you asked a legitimate question and got hit by a salesman instantly. To answer your question, one could make a template for the xml code, but one would still have to punch all the data in by hand. Unfortunately there is no real fast way to enter data into Fantasy Grounds.

[Tenian]

I found the data entry for 4E to be too tedious after doing a handful of powers. So instead of entering them I wrote a program that would take an input file and convert it into XML.

Realistically, the effort it took to do this was probably a wash with the smount of time it would have taken me to enter it all by hand. However I ended up with tools I could release to the 4E community to build their own modules with less time/effort.

[Sigurd]

Sigh, I'm sorry that you asked a legitimate question and got hit by a salesman instantly.
I am by no means a salesman.

Getting a lot of monster data quickly seems pretty much inline with possibly buying some monsters - both of those products include a whack of monsters.

I'm sure its possible to template out a monster entry and then enter only the xml you need for the changed bits. I know that some people set up their data in Excel or another spreadsheet and then import the changed bits into an xml schema to avoid the structure for every monster.

I have not seen a walkthrough or simple write up for the idea though. I still think its a good question.

Sigurd

[Griogre]

What isn't clear is what monsters you want to enter. If someone has already done it then usually it is just cheaper and easier to buy it time and money wise. However if you are talking about the 3.5 monsters - FG comes with all the ones in the SRD. So to get the five or six MM monsters in that are not SRD you might as well enter them by hand. The CSRD does have templated monsters and the sample dragons which FG does not come with, plus everything else.

The complete minions, *if* you like the monsters, is a good deal just from a time to $ ratio but again is 3.5.

If you want the 4E monsters then using a parser is worth it. Having Monster entry or at least the parts the combat tracker uses is so worth it for the GM (assuming you are are actullay going to use those monsters). On a cost to use ratio, after that, spending your time to enter the rest is much less attractive. It's just not worth it to spend hours entering things that are used for less than a minute every few months. After all people use FG to *play* a RPG not just *play* at data input - I don't know anyone who thinks data input is fun. :p

If you want to input something like the MM3 then copy and paste into either the XML or into a new monster entry in a campaign so it does the XML for you (which you then copy into your library module XML) is fastest.

[Tenian]

Parsers are worth it for you :) For me...it's probably a wash :) Although eventually it should come out ahead depending on how many changes they make. I think for the FRCG it only took me a handful of hours to get the Threats imported fully. If I wasn't so OCD it probably would have taken half the time :)

[Wenin]

However if you are talking about the 3.5 monsters - FG comes with all the ones in the SRD

I have the CD, so they are on there?

[Sigurd]

They are certainly in the DM version of FG. When you start to host a campaign there are a five off-white icons in the upper right of the screen. The lowest icon is the modules selector.

Open it and you will see a list of your available modules as well as 3 round icons in the lower left of the window. Drag the icons to the modules to determine player access and then make sure that all of the book icons look open.

One of the modules is a book of monsters.

Once the modules are open they will show up under your library icon on the main table. The library icon is the second from the bottom above the token box.

You can drag the monsters out of there to select monsters.

[Wenin]

I do have the DM version, but when I click on the modules button the Module Activation window is empty.

Was there an option I needed to check when I ran th einstall?

[Sigurd]

Everything has been automagic for me. I'd consider reinstalling.

What OS are you using? XP or Vista?

Start by going to your FG directory (off the start menu). There should be an option in the program group for 'Application Data Directory'. Open the shortcut and check out the 'modules' subdirectory. There should be something there. If there isn't I think you have an install problem.

Hope this helps.

Sigurd

[Wenin]

The folder is empty. I'll try a reinstall.

[Oberoten]

Make sure to go in and remove any remaining registry keys as well.

It made the whole difference for me.

[Griogre]

Just bear in mind one of those keys is the product key so make sure you have it written down.

[Vroomfogle]

I've done a bit of data entry for FG, consisting of large series of data, as well as a lot of experience importing and converting huge data sets of different types for other purposes.

For FG I think the easiest way is to use Excel (or your fav spreadsheet program). Writing a stand alone program (typically using a scripting language good at string manipulation such as perl) to suck in data and convert it to proper XML works but often the input data is filled with exceptions and it's hard to get the program to handle every case.

If you can just get the data into a spreadsheet, with most of the fields separated into different columns (which is quite easy to do with either some of the built in importing functions, or Excel's text to columns function, or your own string manipulation functions), then it just becomes a matter of surrounding it with the proper tags.

What I do is take in all the raw data and get it separated into columns on one sheet. I then open a new sheet that will reference the first sheet, but surround it with tags. For instance on 'Sheet1' I may have columns 1 and 2 called name and description. On Sheet2 my formula for cells B1 and B2 will look like this (my data starts in row B because I have a header row):

= "<name>" & 'Sheet1'!B1 & "</name>"
= "<description>" & 'Sheet1'!B2 & "</description>"

By keeping the raw data on a sheet that you don't touch it makes it easy to go back and fix things as easy....never mess with the original raw data!!

While it's completely dependent on the type and form of the data you want to convert I've found that most of the time the data will require a lot of massaging. There will be exceptions that will need to be accounted for. You want typed XML fields in a lot of cases but the designer of the original data didn't account for someone converting this to XML at some point. For example, you might have a numeric field Armor Type, but with an * after it referencing some sort of special note.

If such data already exists that you can purchase it usually is more then worth it. Unless you consider your time free you will spend way more time working the data then is worth it compared to the price of a product. I'm currently sucking in a bestiary for a ruleset that consists of about 500 creatures and it's definitely more then 40 hours worth of work.

[Xorn]

For the original poster--you can type the data in XML by hand (which is unlikely to be appreciably faster), you can use a parser to parse the data if you have it in text form already and either wrote your own parser or are playing 4E (Tenian made one for that), or you can buy a commercial module, if it exists.

EDIT: Removed inappropriate content

[Sigurd]

Gentlemen, I appreciate those that shared their methods and were positive.

1) It appears that Wenin was asking about xml data entry, at least in part, because his install did not include the SRD Monster Module. Once he is properly installed he will no doubt still want to enter data but it may be less urgent.

2) A couple of you have already shared your XML entry process for the game. I'd only like to add, because we all want to enter data at some point, get a good editor (Notepad++ is good and free). I think XML by hand is more tedious than it is difficult. Properly forming your data and finding badly formed data quickly is worth a LOT. But I'm sure Wenin already knows that.

Thanks all.

As to unerwünscht, eh?.?. He made me a nice goblin token for which I am grateful. I find his antagonism confusing - I do not think his perception of my actions is as important as my intentions or a positive outcome.
Let us speak no more of this.

Sigurd.

[Vroomfogle]

Sigurd, good point about a good text editor, that is really of utmost importance when dealing with XML data, whether you are entering module data or writing rulesets. Outlining, syntax highlighting - these make the job so much easier. I've been using UltraEdit32 which is fantastic but it also costs $50. I have a license through work but would like an alternative for home. Notepad++ looks great, thanks for the tip!

[Oberoten]

Gentlemen, I appreciate those that shared their methods and were positive.

1) It appears that Wenin was asking about xml data entry, at least in part, because his install did not include the SRD Monster Module. Once he is properly installed he will no doubt still want to enter data but it may be less urgent.

2) A couple of you have already shared your XML entry process for the game. I'd only like to add, because we all want to enter data at some point, get a good editor (Notepad++ is good and free). I think XML by hand is more tedious than it is difficult. Properly forming your data and finding badly formed data quickly is worth a LOT. But I'm sure Wenin already knows that.

Thanks all.

As to unerwünscht, eh?.?. He made me a nice goblin token for which I am grateful. I find his antagonism confusing - I do not think his perception of my actions is as important as my intentions or a positive outcome.
Let us speak no more of this.

Sigurd.

Just as a note... I could set up a Data-entry namespace on my Wiki for anyone wanting to try it.

It actually works pretty well as the Wiki templates can output fully formed databases. :)

[Griogre]

On the data entry front, I prefer any Visual Studio Editor over Notepad++, they have better editing features - particulary line copy, paste move - and are more strict about not allowing illegal characters. They have free home/hobby use versions of Visual Studio now. When you are building something from scratch you want the stricter editor.

Notepad++ on the other hand is not bad for editing stuff you didn't make from scratch because it is more forgiving. The price is right too.

Vroomfogle's tip is right on the money as far as data entry. Data is seldom arranged in a way that is easy to convert to XML mechanically. There is always some tweaking, usually by hand, and that is where your time will be spent. You just need to find a way to input and tweak the data that works for you.

[Goblin-King]

This is a legitimate subject, taken over by discussion that is totally inappropriate in nature for such a message board as this. I've cleaned it up, please continue in a more productive tone.

Discussion and critique regarding products for sale on our site are welcome here, but please keep it civil, and stick to common courtesy such as creating new threads if discussion gets too far from the original topic. Threats and name calling are not appropriate, and this certainly is not the proper channel for legal action.

[Wenin]

I finally got around to reinstalling Fantasy Grounds. I made sure everything was check marked when I went through the installation, but I'm still not seeing any modules for the d20 ruleset, even though that was checked.