XP Handout slash command?

[Doskious]

FGII seems really spiffy, and there are a lot of things that I have already taken advantage of here in the community, but I have not been able to find any guidance regarding actual distribution of XP to players in a manner that updates the XP field of the character sheet. Have I been blind, or is this not something that exists as functionality at present?

Also, on a related note, it would be nice to have the XP to next level field automatically update based on the character's total level, and additionally to announce in the chat that the character has gained enough XP to level.

I'm not very talented at coding, but these strike me as things that ought to be operationally possible with the LUA and XML frameworks.

~Doskious Steele

[Griogre]

You have not been blind. FG does not have any automatic updating of XP or any internal tables. The tables would be illegal. While much 3.5 d20 info was release for general use, XP tables were not. There are also prohibitions against certain types of automatic calculations.

None of this stops you updating your ruleset with this for personal use.

If you are using the default d20 3.5 ruleset or a variant you can give out XP the way you would at a table by telling them the XP and having the players drag and drop it into their current XP. You can do this by using the /dice command. To tell you players they got 1000 XP you would type: /dice 1000 XP in the chat window. This would create a number "bubble" in chat and they could drag and drop their XP onto their character sheet.

Should you be using JPG’s 4E rulset it’s a two step process: you would type /mod 1000 XP which would load the mod box below the chat window with “1000” and then drag and drop the mod into the chat window.

[Doskious]

You have not been blind. FG does not have any automatic updating of XP or any internal tables. The tables would be illegal. While much 3.5 d20 info was release for general use, XP tables were not. There are also prohibitions against certain types of automatic calculations.

Granted that this restriction exists for 3.5 d20 rules, is there any reason I could not design my own game, rules, etc. which incorporated the concept of some sort of experience for which I would like to be able to include the capability to automatically update experience based on certain milestones such as leveling were I to design a drastically modified ruleset to implement my game rules in FG? I'm certain that Wizards does not hold full rights to the concept of experience accruing and allowing a level increase at certain thresholds. Is there any generic guidance anyone could provide regarding the care and feeding of my own XP progression (contemplating an aggregation of points with threshold levels at the squares of the Fibonacci sequence)? (Also as a matter of intellectual curiosity, could a link to the prohibitions against certain automatic calculations be provided, I don't seem to be able to find it in the Open Gaming License...)

Thanks much!

~Doskious Steele

[Griogre]

As long as you don't distribute it you can pretty much do whatever you want. The question is do you want to distribute your work? If you do distribute your work and you want to use FG then you can piggyback onto FG but you have to follow the OGL *and* d20 System License rules which FG itself operates under. The d20 System License is much more restrictive than the OGL (see below quote).

The link to software latest FAQ is here: https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/oglfaq/20040123i

However this is the part you are interested in:


Q: What is different if I use the d20 System License?

A: In addition to following all the rules of the OGL for any Open Content you use, the d20 System Guide doesn't let you describe the process for creating a character, describe the process for applying experience to a character, and cannot be an interactive game.

NOTE: Please pay attention to the section of the license that prohibits a Covered Product from being an interactive game. It is not enough to say your product isn't a game; the license gives a definition for what is considered to constitute an interactive game.

"Interactive Game": means a piece of software that is designed to accept inputs from human players or their agents, and use rules to resolve the success or failure of those inputs, and return some indication of the results of those inputs to the users.

This includes the obvious examples of attacking in combat, saving throws, and skill checks, but also includes dice rolling for character ability scores and hit points and rolling for damage. Why? Because in the d20 System a higher number is almost always better. Rolling an 18 for strength is obviously a preferable outcome to rolling a 3. In any circumstance where one outcome is quantifiably better than another is considered by Wizards to be an indication of success or failure; the software cannot perform these kinds of operations without breaching the license.

Q: Why can't I use those things in my program?

A: No d20 System Product can include rules for character creation or applying experience. In exchange for using the d20 logo you are prohibited from making a product that replaces the core rulebooks. Covered Products supplement the core rulebooks; they may not replace them. That is why all Covered Products must state that they require the use of the core rules.

The interactive game restriction exists because Wizards has an exclusive licensee for all interactive games. Authorizing other parties to make electronic games would violate the exclusive terms of that license.


Edit: please note I have not been following the d20 License closely. It was seldom used under 3.5 and I don't really know it's current status under 4th Edition. It's possible the license will die or change to only support 4 Edition in six months or so.

[zabulus]

I understand that to mean: You can make anything that works like D20 with gaining points, earning advancements at certain amounts of points and all that, but you cannot call it D20 (use the D20 logo). And because Fantasy Grounds wants to use the D20 logo, you may not automate those things in Fantasy Grounds (and distribute it).

[Doskious]

Aha.

So anything I produce to publish with FG, even if I strip out *all* of the d20 related information, data, concepts, etc., and insert my own renditions which are wholly unrelated to the d20 system, will still be considered subject to the d20 System License on the basis that FG itself as a program is subject to that license...

On my original thesis, having consulted the most up-to-date d20 System License and Guide (https://www.wizards.com/d20/files/d20stlv6.rtf, https://www.onlamp.com/onlamp/2004/11/04/examples/d20guidev5.rtf, this being the most recent d20 System Guide I can find), I fail to see how having a slash command issued by the DM that replicates the player grabbing the number and dropping it violates the License if the grab-and-drop behavior does not already. Further, from the guide:


Definition of Applying the effects of Experience to a Character:

Applying the effects of Experience to a Character means the process for comparing the accumulated experience point total of a character to a chart to determine if the character's level should be incremented. If the experience level of a character exceeds threshold values as defined by the chart, the character is modified in a specified fashion.

Specifically, Applying the effects of Experience to a Character means incrementing the character level of a character by incrementing a class level by one rank, or by adding a new class at first level, and describing how to allocate new skill points, select new feats, select new talents, or gain new class-level linked abilities.

Applying the effects of Experience to a Character does not include creating or modifying an experience point chart or defining a new class (including describing what benefits that class provides at each level).

...

Mandatory Restrictions:

No Covered Product may contain rules or instructions of any kind that:

o Describe a process for Creating a Character
o Describe a process for Applying the Effects of Experience to a Character

(italics emphasis added)

Unless I miss-read something, or there is a more up-to-date System Guide that I have not been able to locate, I should, without violation of license, be able to program and distribute a script to compare the accumulated experience point total of a character to something else like, say, the result of a mathematical formula which is open-ended and designed to return a figure based in part on total character level, possibly multiplied by or added to one or more constants, the script then to, depending on the result of the comparison, either do nothing further, or indicate via text notification that the accumulated XP total exceeded the result of the mathematical formula. I guarantee that there will be no charts involved in the comparison, and further that the Guide and License make no further definition of Chart to indicate that the restriction applies to anything beyond the common english definition of the word (https://dictionary.reference.com/browse/chart).

In that pursuit, inasmuch as I am not skilled in navigating the mechanism by which the LUA scripts interact with the XML windows and databases, could anyone offer any insights relative to accomplishing that goal or the goal of a slash command to allow the DM to increment the accumulated XP total of all of the characters rather than rely on the players to remember to do so?


Edit: It seems, pursuant to https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4news/20080417a, that Wizards is pulling all support for the Licensing of any non 4E content. From what I read and depending on the legal requirements pertaining to license agreements (IANAL), either the d20 System License (which should be still valid and references the non-extant d20 System Trademark Guide) continues to exist as a License in the absence of the Guide having restrictions only as delineated within the text of the License, or it gets to "graft" on the 4E GSL (https://www.wizards.com/d20/files/GSL_20080617.pdf), which only licenses material under 4E rules, and would seem to render content created and distributed under the d20 System License incapable of making use of non-4E rules (I.E. the 3.5 SRD). The 3.5 SRD is of course also Open Gaming Content, but that's another kettle of fish entirely...

Further Edit: It would seem to me that the best course of action (license- and litigation-wise) would be to drop the d20 System License like the dead rat that it is and retain only the OGL, and make use of the Pathfinder OGL rules, which would seem to not possess the same pesky limitations regarding software implementation as the d20 System License did/does. This last is, of course, only my opinion. I like the game that Wizards has developed and is calling D&D 4th Edition; I like my 3.5 game much more. ^_^

[unerwünscht]

Aha.

So anything I produce to publish with FG, even if I strip out *all* of the d20 related information, data, concepts, etc., and insert my own renditions which are wholly unrelated to the d20 system, will still be considered subject to the d20 System License on the basis that FG itself as a program is subject to that license...

No. Legally if you strip out all calls and references to anything D20 related, WotC has no legal ground to dictate what you can and can not do with your rule set. FG has to comply with the D20 license because it uses and represents D20 information that is the intellectual property of WotC. However WotC has no claim to the FG software itself.

So in short, lets assume you are the owner of White Wolf (I understand your not its just an example) and you wanted to create a WoD ruleset for FG. You are not bound by any restrictions in the D20 license because you are going to strip out all D20 related information in exchange for a system that is fundamentally different from the D20 system.

[Griogre]

I understand that to mean: You can make anything that works like D20 with gaining points, earning advancements at certain amounts of points and all that, but you cannot call it D20 (use the D20 logo). And because Fantasy Grounds wants to use the D20 logo, you may not automate those things in Fantasy Grounds (and distribute it).

I believe you are correct, except remember the XP tables for D&D are not available under any license. You could make your own tables, of course. The whole "interactive game" definition in the actual licence had some grey areas. I didn't see the actual license at the link I gave - probably because they are changing it. I remember thinking in FG terms JPG's double click to roll a d20 and add a mod was "probably" legal. My opinion was anything beyond that probably wasn't. There was no consensious on this.

[Griogre]

No. Legally if you strip out all calls and references to anything D20 related, WotC has no legal ground to dictate what you can and can not do with your rule set. FG has to comply with the D20 license because it uses and represents D20 information that is the intellectual property of WotC. However WotC has no claim to the FG software itself.

So in short, lets assume you are the owner of White Wolf (I understand your not its just an example) and you wanted to create a WoD ruleset for FG. You are not bound by any restrictions in the D20 license because you are going to strip out all D20 related information in exchange for a system that is fundamentally different from the D20 system.
This is my understanding also. If you totally rebuild your ruleset from scratch and don't include stuff from the d20 default ruleset you don't have to worry about the d20 System stuff. If you want to use the OGL then you will need to follow only those rules. If you just want to "do your own thing" then you only have to respect copywrites, trademarks, ect.

On the pathfinder thing, be careful you understand that pathfinder is coming out of the OGL, so make sure you have a good understanding of what you can do or not do. In other words "Lawyer Up" if you you are going to do something commercial.

[Doskious]

Cool. That makes Dosk a much happier camper. ^_^

Thanks all!

~Doskious Steele

[Doskious]

So I added this code to the XML for the Character Sheet (after cleaning everything else out, or course), in the script tag for the XP node:


function update()
newcap = ((window.characterlevel.getValue()+1)*(window.char acterlevel.getValue()+1))
if source.getValue() >= window.expneeded.getValue() then
window.expneeded.setValue(newcap);
source.setValue(0);
return;
end
end
function onInit()
source = window.exp.getDatabaseNode()
source.onUpdate = update
update()
end
which represents a non-d20 system wherein the XP requirement to advance is the square of your new level. Since XP in this system is not used for anything else, I have the code reset the XP box and indicate the new XP threshold to be reached to advance further. (Characters get 1 to 3 XP points for various milestones. It's rather generic.) Since one can multiclass, I don't have it auto-increment a class level, leaving it up to the player to do that.

This seems to work, but if anyone has any insights, let me know...

~Doskious Steele