FG 2 News?

[Morfedel]

I had heard from someone that the fg2 crew had some major big announcement for Gencon? Did that turn out to be the case, and if so, what was it? :)

[Oberoten]

The domain un-registered. That was pretty much the only communication from them about that time.

[Sigurd]

There was at some time an effort from Smiteworks to give us a little more information about what, if anything, is going on with the development(s) for Fantasy Grounds. I believe there was a promise to have monthly updates.

I appreciate that you're asking input for program improvement but would it be so difficult to have the occasional message posted about what's going on?

It is not something users can demand of you but I have to tell you that it kills enthusiasm to here nothing from the developers. If there's no news even for your supporters you will lose people. Word of mouth is very powerful but there would be more 'words' if you gave us more to say.

I'd like to think the updates have just been interrupted and will begin again at some time soon....

The forum does a great deal of your customer relations and encouragement. It deserves some sort of consideration.

I thought there was a plan to revamp the game calendar?


Sigurd

[unerwünscht]

Updates? Devs? We had just chalked Fantasy Grounds up to a dead project at this point. Simple fact is that as stands Fantasy Grounds is hands down the best Virtual table top on the market for D20 based games.

The devs here however made a classic blunder. They stopped updating (my assumption is they moved onto another project) because they know that they have the best product. But what will happen is that someone else will program an application that not only does everything FG does, but it will also do a bunch of the stuff that has been requested. Then everyone will switch to that application, and FG will struggle to catch back up, but by the time they get caught up it will be to late.

Its the fate of a lot of good applications. Infact its the fate of just about every application. Anyways, I would say that FG "golden age" has come and gone, and we can all expect a new application to come and steel the show soon.

[Morfedel]

We will see. I understand that items like FG takes a lot of work, but posting on a message board takes very little. So, when people start wondering what's going on, no new product or updates are being done, and no one is posting info either, it starts looking like a dead project.

And sadly, most often it IS. I have noticed openRPG has headed that direction - people use it, but the devs no longer seem to respond to anything; one of my favorite rpgs, The Riddle of Steel, has gone that route; I'm seriously hoping FG2 isn't doing the same.

That being said, they are clearly paying SOME attention at least; the website did come up without too great a delay - and if they hadn't been at gencon, probably faster.

[zabulus]

The forum does a great deal of your customer relations and encouragement. It deserves some sort of consideration.

I agree. Even a post saying "We're working on some great things, just wait and see!" every now and again does wonders for public relations. Just take a look at what Blizzard are doing with Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3.

[JudoMonk]

I am a potential new customer, waiting for the new Call of Cthulhu game to be released, that checks these forums least once a day and I am starting to get more then a little concerned. GenCon is over and we should of had a large update concerning the state of the game by now.:confused:

[Morfedel]

Well, the game engine is great, Judo. Beyond that... who knows?

[Sigurd]

Judo, I stand by everything I said but I don't want to warn people away from Fantasy Grounds.

My honest advice is, even if you're waiting for the CoC ruleset, buy without worry. It will take you a little time to get your head around the basics of the interface and you really should do that before you get the most out of any particular ruleset.

There are great efforts being put into FG. Foen and Digital Adventures are working on the COC ruleset and I have absolute faith that it will come out soon and be really very good when it comes out (or shortly after :)). Rulesets are 10% of the program on top of the interface and XML library. They are hugely convenient and make the game experience much nicer but, with due respect to the ruleset makers, they are inspired adaptations of what Smiteworks has already provided.

The truth is that its a great system and very adaptable. The frustrating thing is that I don't think there are dark secrets here. Rather, there is a lot about this program they don't promote well. They are hiding great things from people who want to help them.

There is very little to fault the programmers with in the game's design especially when you consider that this is pioneer software.

I am not a doomsayer or a detracter from the program. I think some managment decisions are foolish and frustrating. Every different ruleset, and there are a few now, is another compliment to the underlying library and program design. I really think FG is the best designed VTT out there - with the possible acception of RPTools which is very different.

I think Smiteworks is ignoring people who really want to help them and build the 'Buzz' around their product. All of the program functions are done quite well. I have heard explanations for their lack of player encouragement but eventually I think it hurts everyone. I don't want to sound bitter or discouraging because I'm not. This is probably my favourite software for Windows.

I want to encourage improvement of the promotion and fanbase cooperation because its a great program.

- Sigurd

[Phystus]

Hold on a second here!

I just checked Smiteworks' web site. There was no promise of some 'big announcement' at Gencon. So it shouldn't be a big problem that there wasn't one. I think you're getting a bit worked up over very little.

You also need to understand that their company is very small. Like 3 guys or something. They aren't going to be able to churn out updates very quickly. And they're programmers, not marketing guys. I suspect a lot of their time is eaten up by bug fixes and the normal humdrum details of running a business (payroll, taxes, ordering pencils, general accounting, etc.), leaving surprisingly little time to do the part of the job they love (new development). I know that's how it was when I was involved in a small business. It often takes quite a long time for a business to grow to the point that it can afford hirelings to take care of the small details, or slick marketing firms to help promote them. Until then the owners gotta do it all, and sometimes they have to skip the 'nice to do' stuff in favor of the 'need to do'.

With that said, I agree that they don't market Fantasy Grounds very aggressively, and it's only the obvious quality of the product that's created the success it has seen. It would be nice to hear from the developers more often on the forum, but I can't say I feel like we're being ignored either. And the community provides so much help to one another that the devs often don't need to respond to crys for help because someone in another time zone beat them to the answer. That isn't a bad thing! :D

~Phystus

[VenomousFiligree]

Hold on a second here!

I just checked Smiteworks' web site. There was no promise of some 'big announcement' at Gencon. So it shouldn't be a big problem that there wasn't one. I think you're getting a bit worked up over very little.

I think people might be refering to:


There are no plans for a FG3 at this time, but that doesn't mean there's nothing happening. It would be a shame to head to Gen Con with no cool new stuff now wouldn't it...

[Morfedel]

I think people might be refering to:

Exactly!

That's part of why I started this thread. I wasn't trying to complain in general, but rather curious about comments like that specifically, which made me think that something was going to be unveiled at gencon.

For that matter, though, I don't think anyone wants constant updates to the software... as long as the devs themselves are active in their own community, enough so that we know they are actually, you know, breathing and involved, and FG not having turned into abandonware.

If that makes sense. Just... you know.. a weekly "hey, just to let you know, this is what's up for this week," so at least we know the heart is still beating. :D

[unerwünscht]

Oh I see the issue. You are under the assumption that Developers are human beings. This is almost, but not quite, as flawed as saying us webdevelopers and artists are human beings. :-)

[joshuha]

Also from what I understand, Fantasy Grounds does not have the customer base to make this a full time gig for Smiteworks. I believe they do other non-gaming related corporate type contracts to pay the bills. So at times FG for the may fall lower priority. Not that that isn't an excuse for having more frequent communication but could contribute.

From what I heard from people who went to GenCon is that they demo'd or talked about their upcoming ruleset plugins that allow you to extend rulesets without having to have a completely new ruleset. This would allow people to make plugins to a combat tracker or sheet but not have to touch the base ruleset.

[VenomousFiligree]

From what I heard from people who went to GenCon is that they demo'd or talked about their upcoming ruleset plugins that allow you to extend rulesets without having to have a completely new ruleset. This would allow people to make plugins to a combat tracker or sheet but not have to touch the base ruleset.

So if they're willing to talk about it at GenCon, why not here! :confused:

[Spyke]

From what I heard from people who went to GenCon is that they demo'd or talked about their upcoming ruleset plugins that allow you to extend rulesets without having to have a completely new ruleset. This would allow people to make plugins to a combat tracker or sheet but not have to touch the base ruleset.Interesting. If that means dropping through to the default d20 graphics if you provide no alternatives that would cut down ruleset size and transfer time and be a major improvement to FG II.

Spyke

[Ged]

Hello!

I have a screenshot here for you that illustrates a major upcoming feature:

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/images/screenshots/forums_ss_extension1.jpg

What we have there is a town sheet. So what? I mean, SO WHAT? The important thing is, it is a town sheet on the standard d20 ruleset no different from the current ruleset that comes from the installer/updater. The town sheet is an extension, this simple extension contains the sheet, the list of towns and the town "button" on the right hand side (second symbol from the bottom). Want a vehicle sheet, different combat tracker, perhaps you are content with the character sheet but want to have one more slot for classes. New skills tab, customized graphics. Optional rules anyone? (as my favourite system happens to be Rolemaster, the last one is a tad interesting from my personal point of view :D) ... That's what extensions do. They build on an existing ruleset and add or replace functionality. (Room for extra buttons will be generated as needed.)

Is this just more techy stuff then? What if the scripting that came with Fantasy Grounds II was already way too tedious for you to take any advantage of? Well, I believe the extensions are really what closes the gap between loose script snippets and their effective use more broadly. Those who are not so savvy with coding etc. can start to take cool improvements and insert them right into their "extended rulesets" (not official nomenclature) without the need to go into the ruleset code at all.

When? Soon, as compared with the time since the last update. Actually, I hope really soon in that time frame...

And finally, the roleplaying community is, and has become, even harder to reach as a whole. Directing marketing efforts is not as straightforward as it might seem - commercial marketing channels are expensive, and more often than not, futile. Thus we are ever thankful when we see someone from this community to step forward and tell his or her opinion on Fantasy Grounds when a discussion somewhere in the net is heading in a direction that it is natural. When you do that, and even if Fantasy Grounds II wasn't your favourite application at that time (we are trying very hard to make it so), the word gets out that roleplaying remotely exists, which is a very important message.

Thanks,

[Morfedel]

Hey Ged, looks great! Can't wait to hear more!

I think the reason people are grumbling is less to do with you guys marketting your product, and more they just want to hear from you guys every once in awhile, even if its just to say "Hello, FG isn't abandonware, we ARE working on stuff; and how are you?"

If that makes sense. :D

Again, though, looks good. As for me, I'm wondering: I used to be a programmer, when I discovered that I hated being stuck in a cubicle. So, I'm rusty now.

But I'm wanting a mechanism for dealing with games that use dice pool mechanisms, such as The Riddle of Steel, World of Darkness, Fireborn, or ORE. In the first three cases, the goal is to roll a pool of dice, each die aiming for a particular target number, for a net total number of successes per die that meet or beat the target number.

The last one instead looks for matches; we joke that its Yahtzee, the RPG. Basically, if you have two or more dice that have the same # showing on it face after the roll.

We CAN do that the current method, just having to eyeball it, but if there was some mechanism for the dieroller to parse the results for us... I guess what I'm asking is, is it possible for us out here in the community to code that in, or is that built into the core software engine and, thus, something you would have to do?

I guess what I personally would like to see is a dice roll parser that we in the community can tweak ourselves, to govern different game engines for different die roll paradigms.

[Morfedel]

Oh, and the library section where we have the game rules books for 3rd edition D&D for instance... is there a way for us to add our own stuff into that too? :)

[zabulus]

And finally, the roleplaying community is, and has become, even harder to reach as a whole. Directing marketing efforts is not as straightforward as it might seem - commercial marketing channels are expensive, and more often than not, futile.


That is not really what we meant, it was more a sort of presence on these here boards, maybe a "what we've been up to" post every two weeks or so. And this post right here is perfect for that! :) It shows someone is reading the board, it shows someone is caring enough to post and it even shows cool new stuff you are developing! :)

Way to go, Ged!

[Ged]

Oh, and the library section where we have the game rules books for 3rd edition D&D for instance... is there a way for us to add our own stuff into that too? :)
Yes, if I see what you mean: just open up the export dialogue
type /export in the chat window)
check the circles on the left you want to include, or drag those entries you want to have in the module to the list
mark "I" "checkcircle" beside the entries you wish to end up in the library. Index group is the is the group under which the new library entry appears. For instance, the default d20 modules have as their index group "d20 Essentials".The lack of mine and the other developers' presence here on the forums does not mean lack of efforts to bring Fantasy Grounds forward. Still, I do wholeheartedly agree with you that more regular updates for you guys would be in order. Regrettably it easily happens that if we don't have anything particularly exciting to tell, the update seems pointless and after skipping one update, if feels like the next should be even more enticing, ... I was sort of out of excuses and commented on Phystus's remark on us not marketing Fantasy Grounds very aggressively instead, oh well, you called my bluff :o. One more important thing: as many of you have noted and noticed, the community here is awesomely helpful. And of course every bit of help offered by you guys, helps us too, so I just want to say a big Thank You!

[Morfedel]

Yes, if I see what you mean: just open up the export dialogue
type /export in the chat window)
check the circles on the left you want to include, or drag those entries you want to have in the module to the list
mark "I" "checkcircle" beside the entries you wish to end up in the library. Index group is the is the group under which the new library entry appears. For instance, the default d20 modules have as their index group "d20 Essentials".The lack of mine and the other developers' presence here on the forums does not mean lack of efforts to bring Fantasy Grounds forward. Still, I do wholeheartedly agree with you that more regular updates for you guys would be in order. Regrettably it easily happens that if we don't have anything particularly exciting to tell, the update seems pointless and after skipping one update, if feels like the next should be even more enticing, ... I was sort of out of excuses and commented on Phystus's remark on us not marketing Fantasy Grounds very aggressively instead, oh well, you called my bluff :o. One more important thing: as many of you have noted and noticed, the community here is awesomely helpful. And of course every bit of help offered by you guys, helps us too, so I just want to say a big Thank You!

I do really think just popping your head in and saying hi does let the community know you are still there. I can't begin to tell you how many different companies stopped doing that, and because of it, the fans just drifted away.

That being said, I do think that FG is perhaps the best vtt out there currently - but I'm still dying for more features: dice pool support, ability to play sound (or music) to my players, etc etc. :)

[Oberoten]

Yes, if I see what you mean: just open up the export dialogue

type /export in the chat window)
check the circles on the left you want to include, or drag those entries you want to have in the module to the list
mark "I" "checkcircle" beside the entries you wish to end up in the library. Index group is the is the group under which the new library entry appears. For instance, the default d20 modules have as their index group "d20 Essentials".The lack of mine and the other developers' presence here on the forums does not mean lack of efforts to bring Fantasy Grounds forward. Still, I do wholeheartedly agree with you that more regular updates for you guys would be in order. Regrettably it easily happens that if we don't have anything particularly exciting to tell, the update seems pointless and after skipping one update, if feels like the next should be even more enticing, ... I was sort of out of excuses and commented on Phystus's remark on us not marketing Fantasy Grounds very aggressively instead, oh well, you called my bluff :o. One more important thing: as many of you have noted and noticed, the community here is awesomely helpful. And of course every bit of help offered by you guys, helps us too, so I just want to say a big Thank You!

The best thank you available is just showing that you are still around, and the occasional talk about what MIGHT come in the next version even if it gets scrapped down the road in exchange for another feature.

It is sadly true that fans tends to go very disillusioned when there is only silence on something that they put a lot of own effort into.

[Bidmaron]

Am I to understand then that you don't need to manually edit XML files to make a library module? The 'I' makes it happen? Previously, several on the list claimed that you had to model the library module by editing XML using an existing module as a template.
--Dale--

[Foen]

Firstly, I think the new features look really useful and will open up the mod side to many more users (because you don't need to create your own ruleset to use someone else's neat add-ins).

Secondly, I'm always glad to see Devs making occasional posts, even if it is only to say 'Hi', as it is easy to imagine too much tumbleweed out there otherwise.

Finally, in respect of library modules it is possible to export using 'I' to get your content into the library, but to make it integrate with and work like existing books (such as extra spell compendiums or monsters), you'll need to edit raw XML or use someone else's parsers. On this last point, it would be neat if there was an official mechanism for extending the core materials, as it seems to be a very frequently asked question.

Keep up the fabulous work, and please let us know when we can expect to see a coding spec for the new functionality (so we can get add-ins available as soon as possible after it is released).

Cheers

Stuart

[Bidmaron]

Did I miss an announcement? Do we know what the new functionality will be? I thought the 'I' thing already worked, from the way Geb wrote.
--Dale--

[Griogre]

Well, it depends on what you consider the defintion of a library module to be. :p Using the "I" works but what it also does is leave the module tabs and links in your various books *not* just in the library. If your defintion of a library book module is it works similar to the default d20 Basic, Spell and Monster modules which have only links in the library pane then the "I" option is not the same.

The problem with making a module with the "I" option is if you have several module activated that were made this way - you could have a lot of tabs in your books and the books will only display about 6 tabs. This is what the merge id is for, however. You could make a Merge ID called Library so all modules made this way would dump their tabs and links into this one tab.

So it really boils down to you want the extra links or not. I suggest you try the "I" option and see what happens.

[Griogre]

Did I miss an announcement? Do we know what the new functionality will be? I thought the 'I' thing already worked, from the way Geb wrote.
--Dale--
The announcement that was news was the upcoming adding of "plug-ins" to rulesets that would not force a new ruleset download. It also means that for rulesets, that an update to the ruleset would not necesarily mess up the plug-in.

It means that if you are happy with you character sheet and combat tracker - auguably the most complicated parts of the ruleset you could easily make your own "ruleset" modification by piggybacking off the ruleset you are using.

[osarusan]

Hey, thanks for posting! :-D Hearing an update from the devs really is the most exciting thing. Like everyone said, it doesn't need to be a major announcement, but just hearing that you guys are there and listening. The screenshot was awesome, and I'm really excited now!

[Dementia Five]

You folks are forgiving!

Admittedly, I haven't been on the forums for a long while, but I check back to see what's new, which isn't a heck of a lot. If I'm being honest, I thought FG was indeed abandon-ware. I can't trust the calendar, the forums seem smaller and I can't solicit enough attention from Smiteworks to upload one of my FG campaigns for sale/download (although after a healthy wait I was told I should sit tight, as there are plans in the making...etc...)

I'm not even sure there's a market for a 3.5 campaign, which again, I would love to put out there, but I can't tell the direction FG is taking, and whether my product would still be a good fit.

I will still use the software, as we've all been saying the product's functionality is what's keeping everyone's attention, but I think a lot of people are considering the SW an abused bastard child. Which is unfortunate. There are rumblings of open-source software for VTT, but so far cannot really match the versatility (or appeal) of FG... but that could change at any moment.

[Sigurd]

You folks are forgiving!
You bet we are.

What Smiteworks has done, is treat us well. They made a great product. I love this program. I don't think anyone who uses the it has serious complaints about what it does.

We are, understandably, eager for improvement and strategic growth but we are not entitled to that based on our purchase. I think, as it is, FG is the best deal on the net.

We do however, want the program to succeed. Each of us has a perspective on the market and a circle of friends. I think everyone should remember that they can be part of a process that makes FG better. We all have seen ways to make our gaming better or more convenient and we share them. Some even go ahead and add them. Smiteworks built a great framework but leading that framework takes effort.

I think we can encourage that effort with cooperation and communication all round.

Sigurd

[Dementia Five]

No argument, but your posturing is quite a turnabout from your initial post:



There was at some time an effort from Smiteworks to give us a little more information about what, if anything, is going on with the development(s) for Fantasy Grounds. I believe there was a promise to have monthly updates.

I appreciate that you're asking input for program improvement but would it be so difficult to have the occasional message posted about what's going on?

It is not something users can demand of you but I have to tell you that it kills enthusiasm to here nothing from the developers. If there's no news even for your supporters you will lose people. Word of mouth is very powerful but there would be more 'words' if you gave us more to say.

I'd like to think the updates have just been interrupted and will begin again at some time soon....

The forum does a great deal of your customer relations and encouragement. It deserves some sort of consideration.

I thought there was a plan to revamp the game calendar?


Sigurd

But with one exception I am having:


...

We are, understandably, eager for improvement and strategic growth but we are not entitled to that based on our purchase. ...

I disagree. I think investing in software of any type should indeed entitle us toward the improvements (and support) we are all eager to see.

[Sorontar]

I think investing in software of any type should indeed entitle us toward the improvements (and support) we are all eager to see.

Your money got you the software at a very reasonable price, anything else in the way of improvements you're getting for diddly squat so you're entitled to nothing in that respect.

[Foen]

BTW Sigurd, welcome to Viscountship!

[Foen]

Doh! That happens at 500, not 600!

[Griogre]

Personality, I buy software for what it can do at the time I buy it. Far too many software companies die for me to have *any* expectations of future updates. IMHO, *anyone* who buys software based on some future update is likely to be disappointed. I also think it a grave mistake to support incomplete releases by buying any piece of software that doesn’t do what you need at the time of purchase. This only encourages poorly made software.

There are several other fine VTT’s out there, some free. None, IMO, simulate the table around an actual game as well as FG. Staying close to just simulating the table in a face to face game has served FG and Smiteworks well.

My biggest complaint is I want FG to work as designed. To me, bug fixes are a far higher priority than *any* new feature. There are several major usability bugs outstanding; where I use to work we would have categorized these as “B” level bugs right after the “A” level crash ones. There, a piece of software was not considered release quality if it had any major A or B class bugs.

Sometimes fixing a bug leads to making new features available just because changing the code to make the fix (or totally rewriting that portion of the code) makes it trivial to make that feature available. It is the mark of development amateurs (or hobbyists), IMHO, to choose to continually release new features over bug fixes. I don’t think the Smitework guys are amateurs. What I think is they are, are pros with limited time working on a side project. When they release something it is good work, but their development cycle is long because of the limited time they have. This makes it important they prioritize their time towards a good mix of fixing high priority bugs and adding new stuff.

[Griogre]

I *do* like the plug in idea announced in this tread. It allows the separation of large amounts of FG functionality from addition ruleset “modules” which means an update to FG will have a good chance of not breaking people custom rulesets if they use a plug in approach to making their ruleset.

[unerwünscht]

Your money got you the software at a very reasonable price, anything else in the way of improvements you're getting for diddly squat so you're entitled to nothing in that respect.

And yet again you wonder why I think you are a not nice person.

[Foen]

Hey, time out.

Contractually, buying software doesn't entitle anyone to future upgrades (unless the licence says otherwise), but a large chunk of selecting which software to buy is the implicit assumption that it will be supported and you will share in the improvements.

So SW should continue to justify customer loyalty if they want customer support, but we can't demand it. This is commerce.

Just my 2c

:)

Stuart

[Malovech]

And yet again you wonder why I think you are a not nice person.

Honeslty unerwünscht, save the holier-than-thou-open-source-evangelist-attitude for the Redhat forum. You are griping over a piece of software built by devs in their spare time with little to no return on their investment. I am the first person to give big corporations and software publishers grief for their mistreatment of customers, but when you have a market as small as virtual-tabletops, beggars can't be friggin' choosers.

[unerwünscht]

I don’t think the Smitework guys are amateurs. What I think is they are, are pros with limited time working on a side project.

I think they are three guys that made a tabletop emulator for themselves, decided it was pretty cool, and that people would pay for it, and opted to sell it to people, without first thinking of the consequences of that action.

There is no "IMHO" about it, Fantasy Grounds is hands down the best Tabletop emulator currently on the market. But if SmiteWorks truly had any interest in seeing the project make it anywhere at this point they would sell the project to someone with greater resources than themselves, because it is only a matter of time, with the current rate of development, before it slips into history when someone makes a Virtual table that surpasses it.

[Foen]

*bows out of the thread*

Have a great weekend folks,

Foen

[unerwünscht]

Honeslty unerwünscht, save the holier-than-thou-open-source-evangelist-attitude for the Redhat forum. You are griping over a piece of software built by devs in their spare time with little to no return on their investment. I am the first person to give big corporations and software publishers grief for their mistreatment of customers, but when you have a market as small as virtual-tabletops, beggars can't be friggin' choosers.

I have no desire for Fantasy Grounds software to become open-source, that is probably the best way to destroy a chunk of software. I believe you are referring to my issue with Devin and Kevin. My opinion of Devin is elsewhere on the site, and my only issue with Kevin is he is selling the SRD. Only a scoundrel would steal someone elses work and then try and sell it back to people.

As far as my "holier-than-thou" attitude is concerned, what makes you think that you are so "above the glory" as it is said that you can then place judgment on me? Maybe you should take a look in the mirror before passing down a judgment you hypocritical zealot.

[Sorontar]

And yet again you wonder why I think you are a not nice person.

Nothing I put in my response to Dementia Five was offensive, rude or provoking, it was just a simple statement of how I see the sales agreement. I shouldn't need to sugar coat a simple discussion so that people don't get offended, I assume we are all mature enough to step beyond that need.

I don't wonder at all, I don't particularly care what you think of me I'm beyond sitting at my PC hoping and praying that people on forums who I will never meet think I'm a nice guy.

And yes I read between the lines from Foen's response and took you off ignore *again* because as stated before I will not let punks like you take cheap shots.

If you've got something to say to me beyond this PM me.

[unerwünscht]

And yes I read between the lines from Foen's response and took you off ignore *again* because as stated before I will not let punks like you take cheap shots.

If you've got something to say to me beyond this PM me.

I have no intention of PMing you. Anything I have to say can be read by the people as a whole.

And your cheap shot is an EPIC fail. For the record I am a punk. I survived the 80's with a mohawk, I have a collection of punk tapes, cd's and yes even LP's that would make John Lydon himself jealous, hell I even know EXACTLY what happens when a bloke like you attempts to demonstrate some sense of dominance and control over another person.

For the record your response was meant to be rude. You thought you could get away with provoking a laugh from your little niche at the expense of "A little person." Well I have news for you. You can not and will not ever intimidate me. You cant push me around, and you can not win against me.
So just put me back on ignore. Its really the only safe thing for you to do.

[Sorontar]

Just for the lol factor that has to be up there with my all time favourite posts, thank you you brought a smile to my face.



And your cheap shot is an EPIC fail.

Which one?


For the record I am a punk. I survived the 80's with a mohawk
I'm sure times were hard for you because the 80s were scary what with all those popsters about and their curly perms. Heaven forbid a new romantic found you, nightmare.



hell I even know EXACTLY what happens when a bloke like you attempts to demonstrate some sense of dominance and control over another person.


You have no idea what kind of bloke I am matey and as for trying to dominate anyone well I'll leave that to you as it's obviously your thing



For the record *I thought* your response was meant to be rude. *I think* you thought you could get away with provoking a laugh from your little niche at the expense of "A little person."


Corrected and wrong - don't know who the little person is yet?



Well I have news for you. You can not and will not ever intimidate me. You cant push me around, and you can not win against me.


You really do have a persecution complex don't you. Is the whole world out to get you and you have to fight a righteous battle for the sake of all mankind?



So just put me back on ignore. Its really the only safe thing for you to do.

Safe? Just what do you think is going to happen? Is my house suddenly going to explode in a ball of flame, are my eyes going to turn to honey and be lapped up by ravenous badgers?

[unerwünscht]

Just for the lol factor that has to be up there with my all time favourite posts, thank you you brought a smile to my face.

There you go again, furthering my case that you are not a nice person. I have come up with a theory at this point. I think it is quite possible that you feel the need to attempt to belittle people on the internet due to the fact that your mommy didn't give you enough attention as a child.

Have you ever examined the possibility that you might suffer from some form of oedipus complex? Your need to engage in direct insults may be the result of castration anxiety. Neurosis is a common side effect. Just a thought.

[Sorontar]

There you go again, furthering my case that you are not a nice person. I have come up with a theory at this point. I think it is quite possible that you feel the need to attempt to belittle people on the internet due to the fact that your mommy didn't give you enough attention as a child.

Have you ever examined the possibility that you might suffer from some form of oedipus complex (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oedipus_complex)? Your need to engage in direct insults may be the result of castration anxiety (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castration_anxiety). Neurosis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurosis) is a common side effect. Just a thought.

Did it bother you that much that your post made me laugh, how did you make it through the 80s again?

Maybe I should go to my GP because if I don't get it sorted out I could turn into a paedophile or "develop" homosexuality. Oh gosh, to heck with the GP I'll go to A&E straight away.

Now I do believe your getting personal - don't cross that line too far at the moment you're just making me laugh - ooops there I go again being a bad man.

Note: I thought I'd link to wikipedia in your quote so people know what you're inferring.

[unerwünscht]

Did it bother you that much that your post made me laugh, how did you make it through the 80s again?

Maybe I should go to my GP because if I don't get it sorted out I could turn into a paedophile or "develop" homosexuality. Oh gosh, to heck with the GP I'll go to A&E straight away.

Now I do believe your getting personal - don't cross that line too far at the moment you're just making me laugh - ooops there I go again being a bad man.

Note: I thought I'd link to wikipedia in your quote so people know what you're inferring.


See, now that was funny. I particularly like the part where you turn the joke further in on yourself, and jump to the conclusion that i was referring to homosexuality, and then again where you make the antagonistic reference to the earlier comment of you not being a nice person.

With this post you make everyone laugh, but now they aren't laughing at your expense (or anyone elses for that matter) they are laughing with you.
Bravo. You might be turning into a human being.

[Sorontar]

See, now that was funny. I particularly like the part where you turn the joke further in on yourself, and jump to the conclusion that i was referring to homosexuality, and then again where you make the antagonistic reference to the earlier comment of you not being a nice person.

With this post you make everyone laugh, but now they aren't laughing at your expense (or anyone elses for that matter) they are laughing with you.
Bravo. You might be turning into a human being.

Ah you are mistaken again I am afraid, I jumped to no conclusion.

By referring to Oedipus complex you are instantly bringing into play the fact that if the complex is not dealt with/resolved it can lead to neurosis (as you correctly pointed out), I was merely expanding on two other conditions that Freud believed could develop (or so wikipedia says).

Can I stop laughing now, as I believe the A&E will have enough to deal with when I roll up with this complex - if they have to stitch my sides up again it'll get messy.

Human being? Me ? No surely you have me mistaken for someone else ;)

[unerwünscht]

Ah you are mistaken again I am afraid, I jumped to no conclusion.

By referring to Oedipus complex you are instantly bringing into play the fact that if the complex is not dealt with/resolved it can lead to neurosis (as you correctly pointed out), I was merely expanding on two other conditions that Freud believed could develop (or so wikipedia says).

Can I stop laughing now, as I believe the A&E will have enough to deal with when I roll up with this complex - if they have to stitch my sides up again it'll get messy.

Human being? Me ? No surely you have me mistaken for someone else ;)

I think in Freudian analysis it is more accurate to say that pedophilia, and homosexuality can at times be diagnosed as originating from an Oedipus complex. However to make the assumption that everyone who "feels desire for their mother" may "become" homosexual or a pedophile would lead to the conclusion that 90% of humanity is either one or both. However the analysis that everyone who suffers from an Oedipus complex has some form of neurosis is technically accurate.

f2 to f3

[Sorontar]

I think in Freudian analysis it is more accurate to say that pedophilia, and homosexuality can at times be diagnosed as originating from an Oedipus complex. However to make the assumption that everyone who "feels desire for their mother" may "become" homosexual or a pedophile would lead to the conclusion that 90% of humanity is either one or both. However the analysis that everyone who suffers from an Oedipus complex has some form of neurosis is technically accurate.

f2 to f3

Surely to come to the conclusion that 90% of humanity is either one or both you would firstly have to make an assumption that a larger % of humanity has the Oedipus Complex and the condition was not resolved. I don't think either of us is likely to come to that conclusion are we?

[unerwünscht]

Human sexuality being what it is, and the mind's ability for evolutionary development, leads to the outcome that every man having both a prominent father and mother figure throughout the early stages of life, will develop some degree of an Oedipus Complex. It has even been pointed out that Freud himself had conditions of the complex when developing his theories of it. In fact it is that drive (the love of our mothers, or the hate of our fathers) that drives humanity to be the dominant species. We are all neurotic.

[Tristram]

Human sexuality being what it is, and the mind's ability for evolutionary development, leads to the outcome that every man having both a prominent father and mother figure throughout the early stages of life, will develop some degree of an Oedipus Complex. It has even been pointed out that Freud himself had conditions of the complex when developing his theories of it. In fact it is that drive (the love of our mothers, or the hate of our fathers) that drives humanity to be the dominant species. We are all neurotic.

Wow, what a sad, scared view of the world. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

-Tristram

[Vroomfogle]

What the hell is this crap, High School???!! Guys guys, I've found the FG forums to be one of the few internet forums that were generally free from this kind of putrid back and forth insults that have now become commonplace in this perceived world of anonymity. All you guys are doing is making big assumptions and accusations of each others character when in reality you don't know anything about each other.

Do your trolling and flaming elsewhere please, notice that you guys have gone on for two pages and no one else has responded? No one else cares!

[Morfedel]

Please, let's get back on subject, shall we?

[Oberoten]

I somehow think that start flames on eachother rather thoroughly kills the chance however slim that SmiteWorks will keep answering the thread. Nice work guys, next time you take offense with eachother keep it to PMs, ok?