Issue with Humanity and Empathy.

[Amerisun]

This could very well be that I don't know how to use FG implementation of Cyberpunk Red, it's a little overwhelming as we just started playing, so I am not only learning the rules but how FG has implemented the rules, so hoping to get some direction if there is something wrong with the ruleset or something wrong with how I am doing it? :)

I have no mods, just a UI, and even without the UI it seems to not differ.

1. This is the list of cybernetics the player has:

67365

2. This is the Empathy and Humanity that is currently on that character:

67366

Their starting Empathy was 8, but the editable one (on the right) says 7 out of 8. So I assume you can only edit the maximum for a character, not current as it's affected by the humanity loss which seems easier to understand, although 77 out of 68 seems off as it should be 50 out of 80 since he has an empathy of 8. Can someone explain this part of it?

[LordEntrails]

I struggle with this as well, hopefully someone more competent than I can give us detailed instructions.

[Nightstride]

No worries, we struggled A LOT when integrating the empathy/humanity mechanics. Here's how the calculation works:
- You set the right value of the emp stat
- that value gets multiplied by 10 and gets set as the base value of the maximum humanity. Note that I said 'Base Value'
- next, your non-gear cyberware is checked. For each piece of cyberware with humanity loss, 2 is subtracted from that base value (with an additional 2 if it's borgware), which creates your modified max value. That's how you're getting 68 = 80 - (2 x 6) ... see the table under therapy and you section of the CRB for where this calculation is coming from
- then with the left value of hum, the default value should be 80, but the intent is that you right click the 'active' toggle on each piece of cyberware you have, and click apply base humanity loss for each. That will reduce that value.
- the left value of the emp is then auto calculated by by only using the number in the tens place of the current humanity.

So as you should kind of see, the current and max values are sort of disconnected from each other. They only affect the associated value of the other field.

[Tempered7]

No worries, we struggled A LOT when integrating the empathy/humanity mechanics. Here's how the calculation works:
So as you should kind of see, the current and max values are sort of disconnected from each other. They only affect the associated value of the other field.

Like -HP / MAX HP- in D&D but "MAX HP" is static by the char-gen rules, and "HP" = humanity/emphaty gets modified like having "wounds" = humanity loss if that's comparable? Abnnd borgware is x2 "damage".

[Nightstride]

More or less I'd say. Hp in cyberpunk doesn't have anything that reduces the max, unlike humanity.

Hp is the health pool of the body, humanity is the health pool of the spirit. When hp runs out you potentially die. When humanity runs out, you become cyber psycho and come under the gms control.

Only max humanity is affected by external stuff.

[Tempered7]

More or less I'd say. Hp in cyberpunk doesn't have anything that reduces the max, unlike humanity.

Hp is the health pool of the body, humanity is the health pool of the spirit. When hp runs out you potentially die. When humanity runs out, you become cyber psycho and come under the gms control.

Only max humanity is affected by external stuff.

Got it. From there it is easier to understand the math behind it.
Thanks!

[LordEntrails]

I think the other thing that we/players are supposed to do is that when we add new cyber/borgware we roll the humanity loss dice, and that then subtracts from the current (left?) value of humanity right? So 2/4 per item from the base (max, right) humanity value, and then the die roll (or default during character creation) from the max. And then don't forget the ability for Therapy or HQ benefits to restore current (left) humanity value (but not the right max or base value, right?)

[Nightstride]

You should only ever need to touch the left value of the humanity, with how we developed it in fg. The right value is entirely automated and works as I mentioned, -2 per piece of cyberware that has humanity loss (0 humanity loss cyberware does not do this) and minus an additional 2 if it's borgware (for a net total of -4)

There's 2 states where the left value is modified by cyberware: character creation, and on receiving new cyberware any time after creation. The second will be the most common.

In FG, the first can be handled how I mentioned previously, right click all the active buttons on the cyberware tab and click apply base humanity loss. Be sure to do that for the foundational cyberware as well.

The second is handled by following the same process, but instead of clicking apply base, click the other option, roll humanity loss I believe it is.

Regaining humanity has to be done manually at the moment, fortunately it's relatively simple math.

Some things that are kinda edge case that might come up, and threw us for a loop a few times during development (We confirmed the proper functionality with rtg):
- it is possible to have a current humanity that is higher than the max. Your humanity cannot *increase* above max, but there's nothing saying max is the absolute upper limit. One character I created just for fun used quick change mounts on their arms and legs (the leg ones were a tech creation), and when fully decked out their max hum was below 30. When they popped them off, their max popped up above 60, they get therapy, then pop them back on. That kind of thing is highly dependent on the gm though. But even then a gm would likely allow that kind of thing if they had a few low tech limbs they pop on for therapy.
- and I kinda mentioned it in the previous, bit, but I want to emphasize it again, because it really did confuse us. Max humanity does not interact with current humanity until it comes to current humanity increasing above the current value.

[LordEntrails]

Thanks for the clarifications :)

[Amerisun]

This has been really eye-opening, so thank you all for continuing to help pick this apart. Some of the confusion comes from the fact that the relevant rules are spread across multiple sections instead of being explained in one place.

The key missing piece for me was that I didn’t even realize there was a “right-click” option on the foundational icon you activate from. Once I understood that, everything became much clearer. I’ve also now referenced the Therapy section of the manual, which helped me connect the last of the dots. :)

[Nightstride]

Happy to help. I mostly know most this because I am one of the devs to the FG implementation of the ruleset. And code doesn't play well with ambiguity.

I'll see what I can do about adding a way to make the active functionality more clear.

And I agree that while the game is good, the layout of the crb does leave a bit to be desired... although the sentiment I've been getting is they may be reworking the layout in the future.

This might also be of use to you. It is slightly outdated, but 90% of it should still be accurate. I have plans to update it after I finish a few more major updates.
https://fantasygroundsunity.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/FGCP/pages/2140504065/Cyberpunk+RED

[Amerisun]

Fully understand the code thing, been a developer since my Commodore 64 in the 80's. :-)

I had no idea the FG rulesets also had Atlassian documentation specific to them (we also document our code and requirements / jira's at work with the same tools). I never went looking for it, so that's also on me. Either way, bookmarked!