Making Maps

[PeekItUp]

I've been looking for some good map creation software and was able to find two dedicated programs (https://www.dundjinni.com/ and https://www.profantasy.com/products/cc3.asp).

I was wondering what everyone here uses to create custom maps, if you do.

[Stuart]

I use both of these; DJ is more intuitive and until CC2 became CC3, DJ produced better dungeon maps. CC3 produces far better campaign maps - global views, political maps and, with a steeper learning curve, in the right hands, matches anything DJ can produce.

IMHO - if you are totally new to mapping and especially CAD, DJ is for you.

[Tokuriku]

I prefer Illustrator and Photoshop though I have used and still do use CC3 and Dundjinni (of the later 2, I prefer CC3) :)

[Xorn]

I've used both, and while I prefer CC3 now (the CAD style is more powerful, though harder to learn), I like DJ a lot for the ease of use and power. These to shots are of a KotS map I made while fiddling with some art packs I had downloaded. (I hate the stairs.)
CC3 KotS room (https://www.eugee.net/images/cc3/cc3.keep.jpg)
CC3 KotS room w/ Dynamic Lighting (https://www.eugee.net/images/cc3/cc3.keep.lighting.jpg)

This is a tavern I made in DJ awhile back. You'll get started faster with DJ, but probably do more with CC3/DD3.
DJ Tavern A (https://www.eugee.net/images/dj/tavern.12a.jpg)
DJ Tavern B (https://www.eugee.net/images/dj/tavern.12b.jpg)

[ShadeRaven]

I used CC2 years ago, and after the learning curve, enjoyed it a ton. My only use for it, at the time, was for campaign maps - world view stuff.

However, now that I have purchased FG2, I am wondering how well CC3 might work for both campaign level mapping as well as dungeon design? I am not sure if I want to spend $80 (counting CC3) on adding DD3, so rather hoping that CC3 could cover the basic needs of adventure settings while also providing me with the ability to show campaign level maps to players while inside FG2.

I've spent hours over the last few days looking at Fractal Mapper 8, Dundjinni, and CC3, trying to determine which will fit my needs for use within FG2 best.

Anyone who's experienced in FG2 that has insight into how well CC3 (or any others) works as a complimentary tool to Fantasy Grounds 2 and is willing to give me guidance will have my gratitude.

[Edit] Every time I see the screenshots that people like Xorn have offered I go, "Yes! That's what I am looking for." Of course, he scans in his maps so that doesn't quite work for me, unfortunately. Someone else showed examples of maps in game (I think it was for The Wizard's Amulet) that I was impressed with because they had both campaign map images to show areas as well as "adventure" level images for tactical battles. That is where I'd like to eventually be.

[Xorn]

I used CC2 years ago, and after the learning curve, enjoyed it a ton. My only use for it, at the time, was for campaign maps - world view stuff.

However, now that I have purchased FG2, I am wondering how well CC3 might work for both campaign level mapping as well as dungeon design? I am not sure if I want to spend $80 (counting CC3) on adding DD3, so rather hoping that CC3 could cover the basic needs of adventure settings while also providing me with the ability to show campaign level maps to players while inside FG2.

I've spent hours over the last few days looking at Fractal Mapper 8, Dundjinni, and CC3, trying to determine which will fit my needs for use within FG2 best.

Anyone who's experienced in FG2 that has insight into how well CC3 (or any others) works as a complimentary tool to Fantasy Grounds 2 and is willing to give me guidance will have my gratitude.

[Edit] Every time I see the screenshots that people like Xorn have offered I go, "Yes! That's what I am looking for." Of course, he scans in his maps so that doesn't quite work for me, unfortunately. Someone else showed examples of maps in game (I think it was for The Wizard's Amulet) that I was impressed with because they had both campaign map images to show areas as well as "adventure" level images for tactical battles. That is where I'd like to eventually be.

Errrm...

None of the maps posted there are scans. Both were completely created in their program. I made that map in CC3/DD3 in about 15-20 minutes.

While I do own a scanner, and I did scan in my maps for Keep on the Shadowfell, that map I linked for CC3 was not scanned, not even an image to trace. I just drew in the floor, added walls real fast, then plunked down some doors and symbols. Tinker with the sheet effects a little and finished map. :)

[ShadeRaven]

Errrm...

None of the maps posted there are scans. Both were completely created in their program. I made that map in CC3/DD3 in about 15-20 minutes.

While I do own a scanner, and I did scan in my maps for Keep on the Shadowfell, that map I linked for CC3 was not scanned, not even an image to trace. I just drew in the floor, added walls real fast, then plunked down some doors and symbols. Tinker with the sheet effects a little and finished map. :)
That's fantastic news! Your work is impressive and you are pretty much the benchmark I am shooting for (with the acknowledgement that I'm unlikely to even approach your level of skill anytime soon).

I guess the follow-up question is this: Was DD3 necessary to get what you wanted or did you use the DD3 add-on as a simple enhancement to what you were doing?

I have a tendency to toss money about recklessly as it is, but I don’t actually try to go out of my way to do so, usually. :P

[Xorn]

Now there's a question I can't answer. I bought CC3 & DD3 as one package on the web site, so I never used one without the other. I think what you gain with DD3 is lots of templates and effects, as well as a considerable library of symbols. (EDIT - Without DD3 you would be drawing with the polygon tools, which is less intuitive, but possible. CC3 makes some amazing overland maps, but I wouldn't want to use it for interiors. But I'll say that I've been so happy with CC3/DD3, I'm going to buy City Designer 3 the moment it's released.)

That map there was really easy to do though--I highly, highly, highly recommend checking out the tutorials that Joseph Sweeny did (https://rpgvirtualtabletop.com/articles/article5.html). That's what convinced me to pick up CC3/DD3.

The learning curve is present, but once to get it figured out (and most importantly, start developing a texture library) it's really simple to work with, and I love the power of the CAD based mapping.

There's also a great set of symbols/textures you can pick up at GM's Apprentice (https://www.gmsapprentice.com/).

In fact, the map I made above, I redid the floors and walls with CSUAC textures, and slapped on a stairs shadow that I made (and posted to the ProFantasy forums).

https://www.eugee.net/images/cc3/pol3.jpg
https://www.eugee.net/images/cc3/pol2.jpg

[ShadeRaven]

Ah. Thanks for the links.

Hm.. hm.. I suppose I could just try CC3 alone to start and pick up DD3 if it looks to be lacking. The only bundle that has both in it that's tempting is the World Builder (with Fractal Terrains and City Designer).

Maybe the video tutorials will tip me towards both CC3 & DD3 as well, who knows.

At any rate, I appreciate your input as well as the screenshots as it gives me a clear idea of what's possible and how that could fit in with what I'd like to attain myself.

[Xorn]

I looked at the same bundle long and hard. Since City Designer 3 is not out yet, and missed the deadline by awhile now (which is fine) I didn't want to pick up CDPro with the upgrade to CD3 for one year when I wasn't sure it would be out within a year.

[Foen]

On that note, I have to say Fractal Terrains makes neat world maps, but you'll only use once for a campaign, and I'm not sure it is justified on that basis.

[ShadeRaven]

Yeah, I think I am going to drop the coin on CC3/DD3 and be happy with those two. My Campaign World is already designed, so a random world won't work and I am not so sure Fractal Terrains is a good option for trying to design one that's already built.

My next concern is to try to sift through all the Token discussions and try to figure out what's available. Coming up with a good collection of those will add a lot to the gaming experience, too, I would think.

[icedcrow]

I own all of the CC3 stuff. It's awesome. But as you noted, it was very hard for me to take my existing world into Fractal Terrains. So I made a new one using Fractal Terrains. The options and abilities it gives you, especially inp orting over climate, elevation, etc... into the CC3 overland map is astounding. When my 4th ed website is up I'll post a link and you can check some of the maps out.

For tokens I'm going to find em as I need em.

[Karazax]

For tokens, the D&D miniature picture on Wizards site work well as has been mentioned before. But for more variety I use miniatures from https://www.coolminiornot.com/ which has tons of professionally painted miniatures from every miniature company out there. Some are more useful than others, but it is easy to find a ton of great useable images there.

Then I use tokentool for the token base https://rptools.net/doku.php?id=tokentool:intro

It can also be used to make portraits easily.

Then for CC3 you will still find tons of awesome useable stuff for symbols and fills at the Dunjinni forums https://www.dunjinni.com/forums/default.asp?C=4

Almost all the material there works fine with CC3 and DD3. Also do a search for the CSUAC files, alot of good stuff there for maps.

[mramirez]

I too have been looking for maps for my games (now that I finally bought FG2 and am starting to host some games). Since I don't have a lot of time to make a ton of maps I've been making a collection of maps based on screenshots from other video games.

City of Heroes and Freedom Force has been great in getting some 'arial' shots of terrain for my Mutants & Masterminds game. As just one example.

[Xorn]

This is a great tip--on the DJ forums we had a thread going with aerial shots from different games, including Oblivion, CoX, and WoW. They made some pretty nice random encounter maps!

https://www.eugee.net/images/dj/wow.terrain.1.jpg
https://www.eugee.net/images/dj/wow.terrain.2.jpg
https://www.eugee.net/images/dj/wow.terrain.3.jpg
https://www.eugee.net/images/dj/wow.terrain.4.jpg
https://www.eugee.net/images/dj/wow.terrain.5.jpg
https://www.eugee.net/images/dj/wow.terrain.6.jpg

Examples!

[3darkman]

hmmmmm... good idea :)

I will try later with nwn 2 toolset.

[chipmafia]

hmmmmm... good idea

I will try later with nwn 2 toolset.

Good idea. I have been debating on which map software to buy, but with NWN2, I technically already have one, though getting it set up obviously takes a bit more work.

I just don't have the cash to drop on something like a CC3 bundle. Thanks for the NWN2 idea

[Griogre]

There are a fair amount of free mappers. It's really a question of how high powered a one you need/want. You can make maps that are works of art that require professional quality software and post production work in several sets of software. However, most people don't have the skill or time to make maps of that quality.

You might look at DungeonForge (https://www.dungeonmapping.com/df/public_html/) a free mapper. WotC even still has a free tile mapper (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20061121t) in their archives.

[Xorn]

If I didn't enjoy making maps so much, I wouldn't have invested in ProFantasy's stuff, either. For me, it's actually a relaxing and fun activity for me. I've got quite a few maps I've made that will probably just get uploaded over at the Palentir or something. I've made some decent maps using the Dungeon Tiles Mapper actually, that Griogre mentioned, and he's right, there's a lot of free mapping programs out there that are nice. I used MapX for awhile, and was pretty happy with it. It's like a really watered down version of a vector based mapper, in my opinion. Using it before I started using CC3 was definitely advantageous.

[todwag]

Xorn

I really like the maps you posted in this thread. I'm particularly interested in how to do the lighting. I'm a newbie to CC3/DD3. Basically I've followed the Sweeney tutorials. If you could point me in the right direction for those lighting effects that would be awesome.

Your FG tutorials are the bomb. Smite Works should pay you to do more:D


Tod