SWADE – Sub-Attacks: Attack Modifiers not applied & UI improvement suggestion

[[email protected]]

Dear Fantasy Grounds Team,

while working with the Savage Worlds Adventure Edition (SWADE) ruleset in Fantasy Grounds, I noticed a small limitation and would like to report it as well as suggest a possible usability improvement.

1. Attack Modifiers not applied to Sub-Attacks

The ability to create and store Sub-Attacks directly on weapons is extremely useful for representing different firing modes or attack variants of the same weapon.

However, it appears that attack modifiers such as [Attack -1] only work on the main attack entry. When the same modifier is added to a Sub-Attack, it does not seem to affect the attack roll.

Steps to reproduce:

Create or open a character using the SWADE ruleset.

Add a weapon and create one or more Sub-Attacks for that weapon.

Add an attack modifier such as [Attack -1] to the Sub-Attack.

Roll the Sub-Attack.

Observed behavior:
The modifier does not apply to the attack roll.

Expected behavior:
Attack modifiers (e.g. [Attack -1]) should apply to Sub-Attacks in the same way they apply to the main attack.

2. Usability suggestion: Collapsible Sub-Attacks

When a weapon has several Sub-Attacks, the Combat tab can become cluttered, because all Sub-Attacks are displayed at once.

It might improve usability if Sub-Attacks could appear as a collapsible drop-down under the main weapon attack, allowing the user to expand them only when needed.

This would keep the combat interface cleaner while still allowing quick access to alternative attack modes.

Thank you very much for your work on Fantasy Grounds and for supporting the Savage Worlds system.

Kind regards,
Syrus

[Moon Wizard]

Moved to the Savage Worlds forum; since this product is managed by community developers, instead of Fantasy Grounds team directly.

Regards,
JPG

[Jiminimonka]

Pretty sure that the modifiers not applying to sub-attacks is by design. Sub-attacks can be for anything related to that weapon/power.

Can't speak to the re-designing of the UI.

[Mike Serfass]

Thanks for your feedback and thanks for playing SWADE on FGU.

1) This is by design, because sub-attacks can be very different from the main attack. Carrying over effects would have users complaining that effects like [#3RB] and [#Ignore MAP] have to be deleted. This is more the case with powers, such as boost/lower trait. It's also seen with sci-fi and magical weapons that have different use cases. We decided it was less work overall for users to not carry over effects. It's one of those situations of being good and bad either way it works.

Having said that, I can add a second menu option named "Create Sub-attack and copy all the effects to it please".
I'll work on coming up with a better name for that.

2) There used to be collapsible sections here and there, but they became problematic with changes to CoreRPG. They were removed and abandoned. Combat Tracker suffered the biggest loss there. Many of us miss collapsible sections. If ever they become feasible again, they'll be added in a few places.

[Lazer]

iHaving said that, I can add a second menu option named "Create Sub-attack and copy all the effects to it please".
I'll work on coming up with a better name for that.

I would be super grateful if you could implement this. It would allow me to create different fire modes or ammunition types for weapons much more smoothly. At the moment, I have to do this via right-click and +/- trait info every time a player adds a weapon to his inventory.66961

EDIT: Also, could ammunition usage be independent for sub-attacks? Because right now, it always uses as many shots as the main attack, even if ROF or shots are set to a different value.

[Jiminimonka]

Three Round Burst should have the effect [>#3RB] which takes care of all the 3 RB properties includoing ammo and bonuses.

The ammo is for the weapon so if the player does 3RB it will use more than a single shot. Having it vary with each sub attack would be wrong.

There are lots of effects and properties that effect ammo consumption without you needing to edit anything. Come on FG Discord for details or read the wiki.

[Mike Serfass]

The new "Create Sub-Attack" menu option will be in the April release.
The ammo per subattack won't be. Partly because I don't have time to do that with everything else I'm working on. Partly because I'll be doing an overhaul of ammo consumption, and things like sub-attack ammo, auto reload, and other stuff will be part of that.

[Lazer]

That’s great news, thanks a lot! 😊

[Lazer]

Three Round Burst should have the effect [>#3RB] which takes care of all the 3 RB properties includoing ammo and bonuses.

The ammo is for the weapon so if the player does 3RB it will use more than a single shot. Having it vary with each sub attack would be wrong.

There are lots of effects and properties that effect ammo consumption without you needing to edit anything. Come on FG Discord for details or read the wiki.

The [>#3RB] works if applied as an effect on the regular weapon attack, but it doesn’t work as a sub-attack. It’s kind of clunky to toggle the effect on and off instead of having a sub-attack with a shared ammo pool. Especially if you want something exotic—like a Mega Man–like charged shot that consumes 5 ammo, for example.

[Mike Serfass]

Here's the new menu option:
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=66966
It copies everything the Create Sub-attack option does, plus # attacks, RoF, damage type, effect, notes, roll type, fumble, wild die, and bonus list (trait info).

[Jiminimonka]

The [>#3RB] works if applied as an effect on the regular weapon attack, but it doesn’t work as a sub-attack. It’s kind of clunky to toggle the effect on and off instead of having a sub-attack with a shared ammo pool. Especially if you want something exotic—like a Mega Man–like charged shot that consumes 5 ammo, for example.

It does work on the sub-attacks. Otherwise Sub-Attacks would be useless.

Despite it saying Three Round Burs it doesn't have 3RB on the main attack ;)

EDIT: Main attack uses 1 ammo, 3RB uses 3 ammo as expected and adds +1 to Shooting and Damage.....

[Lazer]

Here's the new menu option:It copies everything the Create Sub-attack option does, plus # attacks, RoF, damage type, effect, notes, roll type, fumble, wild die, and bonus list (trait info).

That’s amazing! Thank you so much for your effort! :-D

[Lazer]

It does work on the sub-attacks. Otherwise Sub-Attacks would be useless.

Despite it saying Three Round Burs it doesn't have 3RB on the main attack ;)

EDIT: Main attack uses 1 ammo, 3RB uses 3 ammo as expected and adds +1 to Shooting and Damage.....

Sorry, but this is a misunderstanding. The effect works on sub-attacks if you apply the effect to the weapon. I wanted to create a sub-attack with +1 to shooting/damage and 3-shot consumption, so I don’t have to apply any status effects. Thankfully, it’s possible now.

EDIT: I have to correct myself. You are absolutely right. I’m not sure how I messed it up, but now it worked just by dragging and dropping the effect onto the item’s sub-attack. Thank you for your assistance.