New Pin Graphics issue

[roomtone]

I love the idea behind the new pin graphics, but it has made my maps near unusable. My group likes to take copious notes and then when you combine it with my room descriptions, images, etc, the entire map is filled and unreadable. Is there a way to switch back to the pins? This wasn't an issue with the pins. Please help!!!!

Here is what one of my maps look like!

66519

[devinlc]

Agreed. What's worse, the icons move around slightly as you resize, minimize, and open/close the map, meaning the icons eventually cover up what they are supposed to be labelling. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE put in an option to bring back the pins!

[Zacchaeus]

Pins do scale slightly as you zoom in and out so that they are more visible when zoomed out. You have the option on the map panel on the right or on the toolbar at the top of the map to show/hide shortcuts.

[Griogre]

I think this is an issue similar to the dice size one where the screen resolution of the user and personal preference meant having just one size was a problem. With map pins, the size of the map, map style and personal preference matter too. While I don't usually use this style, on this level I did pin the locked and trapped doors. The pins for the doors use to be in the wall or square next to the door so player and monster tokens wouldn't cover the pins. Now with the larger size, tokens are definitely going to end up covering the pins.

[devinlc]

Pins do scale slightly as you zoom in and out so that they are more visible when zoomed out. You have the option on the map panel on the right or on the toolbar at the top of the map to show/hide shortcuts.

Yes, but I would like to have the pins out for players to reference on my world map without them covering up half of the map or moving around to cover what they are describing. It's not that these new things scale, they also actually move around. I can clear a pin from the map object it is describing, close the map, open it back up at the exact same resolution, and the pin has now moved to cover the map object.

So, it's two issues...both the moving around and the fact that these new things are way bigger than the old pins and cover up a lot more map real estate.

[Zacchaeus]

Yes, but I would like to have the pins out for players to reference on my world map without them covering up half of the map or moving around to cover what they are describing. It's not that these new things scale, they also actually move around. I can clear a pin from the map object it is describing, close the map, open it back up at the exact same resolution, and the pin has now moved to cover the map object.

So, it's two issues...both the moving around and the fact that these new things are way bigger than the old pins and cover up a lot more map real estate.

Hiding pins is per user so whilst you hide pins that doesn't hide them from players (obviously players only see the shared pins so they won't have as many as you seem to have I assume).

I'm not seeing pins moving; can you maybe post a short video on what you mean. I'm assuming here that you have a grid on the map and that grid isn't set to be less that 50px (the pins work best with a grid size of 50-100px).

[Jasper McPhisto]

Take a look at the comparison.

Compare this photo of Port Blacksand (which has many but not all of my pins, pre-change):
66535

With this:
66536

Our plan was to zoom in an use the city map as a battle map (it's a gridded city). We planned to move tokens down streets and up alleys. The tokens really clutter the zone and dominate. My initial reaction was to assume this was a display glitch — the change was so visually dominant that it felt like something had gone wrong.

[Jasper McPhisto]

Double posted in error. Deleted.

[Jasper McPhisto]

I don’t think the informational value of the new pin-head design justifies the visual intrusion on maps. Maps aren’t just spatially distributed libraries; they’re also navigational and atmospheric tools. The new pins pull GM-facing UI into the foreground and obscure the underlying map in a way that breaks flow during prep and play.

My initial reaction was to assume this was a display glitch — the change was so visually dominant that it felt like something had gone wrong.

This redesign may work well for sparse maps, but on dense or detailed maps it becomes a significant usability issue. Preserving a compact or “classic pin” option would solve the problem cleanly, preserve user choice, and reduce friction without undoing the new system.

I do hope you will consider this.

[Zacchaeus]

Take a look at the comparison.

Compare this photo of Port Blacksand (which has many but not all of my pins, pre-change):
66535

With this:
66536

This city doubles as a battlemap, with player tokens moving up streets and down alleys. The pins were discrete and minimalist. The replacements seem to me to be, in their present state of development, 'loud' GM-facing labels that disrupt the tone and the legibility of the map compared to discrete pins.

What's the grid size and scale of that map?

[tahl_liadon]

.

while graphically nice, some of the issues have been well-illustrated above.

a couple of ideas that could make usability of this feature shine:

1) allow option to select pin style would be ideal! i personally like very much the old red pushpin -- tidy, space-saving, and just the perfect size for attention-getting for when i want it.

2) allow a toggle option to temporarily show / hide pins on map. this would also be ideal if i could simply click an icon at the top of map in menu area, then re-click to hide and get back to exploration mode with party. clean, simple and super-effective.

i genuinely appreciate all the energy and effort continually going into improving fgu! thx

[Jiminimonka]

The style of the pin is not really relevant. The pins changed to better graphics. Something else is causing the scale issue, not the improved and variable pin graphic.

EDIT: You can can already turn off pins on the map.

[Jiminimonka]

Here on the map menu

66537

[Zacchaeus]

Also here on the toolbar.

[tahl_liadon]

Also here on the toolbar.

awesome! i completely missed that somehow :ninja:

[Trenloe]

The issue I have is that the pins don't resize as you zoom in and out - see the screenshot below, the shortcut images remain the same size no matter what "zoom" level I use for the map. This is fine if I zoom in, but if I zoom out it makes the map hard to view. Yes, I can turn off the pins, but some better options of scaling would be nice...

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=66539

[Jasper McPhisto]

Thanks for your reply Zacchaeus. I'll take a look tomorrow evening and let you know.
Jasper

[Jasper McPhisto]

I don’t think simply toggling pins off solves the problem. The pin system is one of FG’s strongest tools, and I fully understand the reasons behind the new, more informative icons. But on dense maps the new design introduces practical usability issues, and there are ways to mitigate these without undoing the recent work.

Below are three suggestions that might address current concerns while preserving the new system’s strengths:


1. “Classic Pins” Option (If Feasible)
A legacy icon set (the small red pins) as an optional display mode.
If maintaining two visual modes creates long-term support or technical complications, then this may not be viable — but if the new system is largely asset-driven, it could be the simplest toggle.

2. “Hover to Expand” Mode (Likely the most practical solution)
Small, unobtrusive icons on the map that expand to the new, detailed style only on hover.
This preserves the clarity of the underlying map, keeps the new icon library meaningful, and avoids clutter on dense layouts while still enabling fast access to information.

3. Two Icon Styles With the Same Behaviour
Same behaviour as #2 above, but offering two graphical styles:
- the new expanded “information marker” design
- the original slim pin with a thin base
Both using the same colour coding and same hover-expand behaviour.
This respects personal preference while keeping the underlying system unified.

These approaches aim to preserve all the functional gains of the new pin system while addressing the visibility and clutter issues raised by many users.

Thanks again for inviting feedback — I appreciate that you’re actively refining the tool.

[devinlc]

The issue I have is that the pins don't resize as you zoom in and out - see the screenshot below, the shortcut images remain the same size no matter what "zoom" level I use for the map. This is fine if I zoom in, but if I zoom out it makes the map hard to view. Yes, I can turn off the pins, but some better options of scaling would be nice...

For me, even the zoomed in version isn't fine. For example, the new, larger pins obscure the room labels. Find K16a. Find K9. They are simply completely in the way now. And, I agree, I can remove them, but that's not the point. I want the pins on the map AND I want to see the map. The old pins did this perfectly.

[Jasper McPhisto]

For me, even the zoomed in version isn't fine. For example, the new, larger pins obscure the room labels. Find K16a. Find K9. They are simply completely in the way now. And, I agree, I can remove them, but that's not the point. I want the pins on the map AND I want to see the map. The old pins did this perfectly.

My view too. 100%. I'm a newcomer from Foundry, bought my first module and prepping my first game. In Port Blacksand - a massive map with dozen and dozens of locations. And I REALLY liked the pin system. I do hope the developers can accommodate either a legacy pin mode, or go with something like my 3rd suggestion above - an updated pin mode that incorporates the new colour coding, possibly magnifying when you hover over it to display the icon. I valued the slim pin, with its fine base, which was so discrete and unobtrusive within the map space.

[Jasper McPhisto]

What's the grid size and scale of that map?

Hi. I have it as Width 10, Height 10, Distance 5
But it seems to scale properly with (a) building size - e.g. the building footprint for the Black Lobster on my City Map tallies with the building map from the sourcebook, and (b) Courtyards and alleys - which vary from 3'- 5' in width - which is right for Blacksand. Some alleys are tight and you'd not manage to fight with anything much longer than a dagger...)

[LordEntrails]

Note, most graphic elements on images are designed to work with grids in the 50-150 pixels. I'm not surprised an image with a grid size of 10 has issues.

That said, I agree with most who are asking for improvements in the new pins behavior.

[Jasper McPhisto]

Note, most graphic elements on images are designed to work with grids in the 50-150 pixels. I'm not surprised an image with a grid size of 10 has issues.

That said, I agree with most who are asking for improvements in the new pins behavior.

Maybe so. I anticipated this might be the case. I am new to FG afterall. But I guess the point (pun aside) is that the pins worked really well for me before. It was a versatile system that allowed me to operate within a massive city grid, as a 'dungeon (Alley) crawl'.

[devinlc]

Note, most graphic elements on images are designed to work with grids in the 50-150 pixels. I'm not surprised an image with a grid size of 10 has issues.

That said, I agree with most who are asking for improvements in the new pins behavior.

That pixel count can put a strain on some players' computers if the maps are large enough. I generally stick in the 28-36 range to try to keep the file size between 500k and 1.25MB

[Jasper McPhisto]

I was also going to start a blog including a series called Port Blacksand Revisited - in which I post my expansions and elaborations of the the well-loved vintage setting. My first 3 modest Reddit posts have got 6.6K views, which surprised me. The latest post https://www.reddit.com/r/fightingfan...mment/o2k486f/ got a comment: "Looks really nice. What's the platform/software you're using to get that image?"

I realise it's tangential, but I've not put any more posts up since this change. Though I've developed dozens of locations since my last post I've hesitated with the blog. When my game starts in the Easter hols I was going to post occasional screengrabs of the action - map and tokens showing the characters getting jumped by members of the Iron Teeth in the Alley of Whispers and fighting werebats on rooftops of Gallow Hill. I think it may be more difficult to capture it so well now unfortunately. Which it’s disappointing for me and perhaps it won't showcase Fantasy Grounds so well either.

[Tempered7]

Note, most graphic elements on images are designed to work with grids in the 50-150 pixels. I'm not surprised an image with a grid size of 10 has issues.

That said, I agree with most who are asking for improvements in the new pins behavior.

Especially true with enormous maps with tons of pins.
I sent you a PM.

[Speculi]

The issue I have is that the pins don't resize as you zoom in and out - see the screenshot below, the shortcut images remain the same size no matter what "zoom" level I use for the map. This is fine if I zoom in, but if I zoom out it makes the map hard to view. Yes, I can turn off the pins, but some better options of scaling would be nice...

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=66539

That seems to be one of the big issues with the new system. The pins have a fixed size on screen.
I feel like they would need to scale up to the limit of what they are now ("native size") but also shrink when the map is zoomed out further. Maybe the "native size" should be adjustable by the user? And the smallest size they can shrink to maybe as well. Or the minimum size could be defined in some other way, so pins are always recognizable as such.

While I like the look of the new pins and I like that I can see what kind of content is behind the pin, I had another thought as well:
Since we have a lot of old content authored with the old slim pins in mind, maybe adjusting the pin graphics a bit to have a slim base would help with situations where they currently block labels on maps?

[roomtone]

That seems to be one of the big issues with the new system. The pins have a fixed size on screen.
I feel like they would need to scale up to the limit of what they are now ("native size") but also shrink when the map is zoomed out further. Maybe the "native size" should be adjustable by the user? And the smallest size they can shrink to maybe as well. Or the minimum size could be defined in some other way, so pins are always recognizable as such.

While I like the look of the new pins and I like that I can see what kind of content is behind the pin, I had another thought as well:
Since we have a lot of old content authored with the old slim pins in mind, maybe adjusting the pin graphics a bit to have a slim base would help with situations where they currently block labels on maps?

I'd rather have the old pins and have different colors for different content, but that's just my .02.

[Jiminimonka]

I was also going to start a blog including a series called Port Blacksand Revisited - in which I post my expansions and elaborations of the the well-loved vintage setting. My first 3 modest Reddit posts have got 6.6K views, which surprised me. The latest post https://www.reddit.com/r/fightingfan...mment/o2k486f/ got a comment: "Looks really nice. What's the platform/software you're using to get that image?"

I realise it's tangential, but I've not put any more posts up since this change. Though I've developed dozens of locations since my last post I've hesitated with the blog. When my game starts in the Easter hols I was going to post occasional screengrabs of the action - map and tokens showing the characters getting jumped by members of the Iron Teeth in the Alley of Whispers and fighting werebats on rooftops of Gallow Hill. I think it may be more difficult to capture it so well now unfortunately. Which it’s disappointing for me and perhaps it won't showcase Fantasy Grounds so well either.

That link is broken.

[Jasper McPhisto]

That link is broken.

Here it is:
https://www.reddit.com/r/fightingfantasy/comments/1qqo99b/blacksand_revisited_part_3_the_harbour_district/

[Moon Wizard]

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

I have some plans to change pin standard sizing in the short term, just finding time to implement.

Regards,
JPG

[LordEntrails]

Thanks, much appreciated :)

[Jasper McPhisto]

Yes. Thanks Moon Wizard.
And if you are able to maintain a multicoloured trad pin option within your new configuration there's a bunch of us that would be very happy with that.
For my part, I intend to use game maps actively in my blog, and on Reddit, and I'd be very happy if that raises the profile of your product.

[claedawg]

I would like to vote for the "multicoloured trad pin option" approach!

Hum...What about adding link capability to the text boxes?
Not sure how GM visibility on/off would effect that.

[Zacchaeus]

Yes. Thanks Moon Wizard.
And if you are able to maintain a multicoloured trad pin option within your new configuration there's a bunch of us that would be very happy with that.
For my part, I intend to use game maps actively in my blog, and on Reddit, and I'd be very happy if that raises the profile of your product.


I would like to vote for the "multicoloured trad pin option" approach!

Hum...What about adding link capability to the text boxes?
Not sure how GM visibility on/off would effect that.

The pins in the current TEST version have been somewhat reduced and I believe scale with the grid size.

[roomtone]

Applause! Applause all around for the quick fix that does the trick!

[Tempered7]

Applause! Applause all around for the quick fix that does the trick!

Make it double! :)

[Griogre]

Thanks for the changes, I appreciate it.

[tahl_liadon]

first of all, thx very much for being so responsive in addressing this issue.

i ran a few tests for optimal visibility.

the example map is probably a worst-case scenario (which i found and am actually using :cry: ). the brighter, high-detail color palette — combined with the density of visual information — makes it very difficult to distinguish the original token design. i’m sure some maps out use more muted or monochromatic palettes where tokens would stand out more clearly, but that shouldn’t limit how maps are chosen.

as you can see, when i increased the grid to 100 x 100, the tokens became much easier to see and select. however, all my maps are set to 50 x 50 to minimize file size. that’s the optimal balance for me, and i don’t intend to go back and rescale everything.

even with a brighter token (like the old red push pin), visibility at 50 x 50 is still marginal.

i have a couple of ideas, but i’d appreciate any recommendations others might have. thx.


https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=66653

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=66654

[LordEntrails]

Any one color scheme would probably have to be pretty atrocious for it not to blend in with some type of map. Think forest map vs cyberpunk city map.

I don't know if its worth the squeeze, but the best options might be an ability to toggle between pin icon sets for each image or another way to customize the icons per campaign.

[tahl_liadon]

...
I don't know if its worth the squeeze, but the best options might be an ability to toggle between pin icon sets for each image or another way to customize the icons per campaign.


as you can see in the 100 x 100 grid, i was thinking an easy(?) option could be allowing gm to select from a few variable sizes, perhaps: default, +50%, and +100%

so if i continued to use my 50 x 50 grid, a choice to select +50% size increase would prob work for me, even with the original token design.

[Zacchaeus]

as you can see in the 100 x 100 grid, i was thinking an easy(?) option could be allowing gm to select from a few variable sizes, perhaps: default, +50%, and +100%

so if i continued to use my 50 x 50 grid, a choice to select +50% size increase would prob work for me, even with the original token design.



Hold your mouse over a pin and whilst holding CTRL use the mouse wheel to adjust the size of the pins to suit your needs.

[Speculi]

first of all, thx very much for being so responsive in addressing this issue.

i ran a few tests for optimal visibility.

the example map is probably a worst-case scenario (which i found and am actually using :cry: ). the brighter, high-detail color palette — combined with the density of visual information — makes it very difficult to distinguish the original token design. i’m sure some maps out use more muted or monochromatic palettes where tokens would stand out more clearly, but that shouldn’t limit how maps are chosen.

as you can see, when i increased the grid to 100 x 100, the tokens became much easier to see and select. however, all my maps are set to 50 x 50 to minimize file size. that’s the optimal balance for me, and i don’t intend to go back and rescale everything.

even with a brighter token (like the old red push pin), visibility at 50 x 50 is still marginal.

i have a couple of ideas, but i’d appreciate any recommendations others might have. thx.


https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=66653

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=66654



It looks like you changed the grid size, without changing the actual image resolution? Since they are relative to grid size now, with half the grid size on the same image, the pins will be half as big. Exactly like NPC tokens would behave, when dropped on the map.

Have a look at this:

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=66656&stc=1&d=1771534451

The first image is 250x250 pixel, with a 50px grid in FG. So each square is 50 px in the image and the grid.
The second one is 500x500 with 100px per square, but a 50px grid in FG. The pin looks smaller, because it is relative to the grid size.
Now the last one is using a 100px grid on the 500x500 image. So the pin is relative to the image the same size as the first one.
If you want to reduce file size, you need to actually scale the image outside of FG and then set the appropriate grid size as well.

[tahl_liadon]

It looks like you changed the grid size, without changing the actual image resolution?

i appreciate the time and effort in providing sample visuals / tests. i get all that, thx :-)

yes, i did not change image resolution, only grid size.

again, as i mentioned, i don't intend to go back and change all the maps and adjust the resolution... that's impractical especially having lots of existing maps.


Hold your mouse over a pin and whilst holding CTRL use the mouse wheel to adjust the size of the pins to suit your needs.

this solution works for me. thx
(at first i thought i had to do this to each token(!); however, since they are all instances of the same single resource token on the map, adjusting one applied to all of them. which was a relief haha)

[LordEntrails]

Hold your mouse over a pin and whilst holding CTRL use the mouse wheel to adjust the size of the pins to suit your needs.
This is awesome.

Default sizes are pretty good on my Undermountain map, but this ability to scale the icons is great :)

[alloowishus]

This is awesome.

Default sizes are pretty good on my Undermountain map, but this ability to scale the icons is great :)

BTW, this is an aside, but a year ago or so I made a copy of my CoreRPG.pak ruleset and my games ruleset in hopes to freeze it the way it is, because I like it the way it is. This doesn't quite work however since I discovered that updates still SORT of happen, so I am guessing that updates also update the .exe. So now with the pin modification, I still have the old pin style, but they are TINY, so I have to use the CTRL zoom every time to see them.

[Zacchaeus]

BTW, this is an aside, but a year ago or so I made a copy of my CoreRPG.pak ruleset and my games ruleset in hopes to freeze it the way it is, because I like it the way it is. This doesn't quite work however since I discovered that updates still SORT of happen, so I am guessing that updates also update the .exe. So now with the pin modification, I still have the old pin style, but they are TINY, so I have to use the CTRL zoom every time to see them.

You can see by the patch notes that in some cases it is the client that is getting updated and in others it's the rulesets. https://www.fantasygrounds.com/filelibrary/patchnotes_v4.html

[tahl_liadon]

... I still have the old pin style, but they are TINY, so I have to use the CTRL zoom every time to see them.


yep, progress happens.

believe or not, i used to manually update / overwrite the graphics directory as well as various .xml files every time there was a .pak update. it got laborious and old. so i've learned a better and more efficient way...themes!

if you have the ability to go under the hood a bit, create a theme with all your favorite stuff. this way even if the .pak gets updated regularly, you can tweak your theme minimally and retain your visual preferences.

i do a lot of themes for each of my campaigns (usually for pathfinder materials). i like the old red push pin, but i also like the new design. my compromise was converted the new pin to all red, then manually adjust size, and it's works great for me.

pm me (or start a new thread so others can contribute their experience and know-how) if that's a route you wanna explore. i'll provide pointers where i can. good luck and have fun!

[LordEntrails]

BTW, this is an aside, but a year ago or so I made a copy of my CoreRPG.pak ruleset and my games ruleset in hopes to freeze it the way it is, because I like it the way it is. This doesn't quite work however since I discovered that updates still SORT of happen, so I am guessing that updates also update the .exe. So now with the pin modification, I still have the old pin style, but they are TINY, so I have to use the CTRL zoom every time to see them.
Yep, there are still things in the executable that gets updated. You can make copies of the rulesets you use and change them to be children of Corerpg_2024 if you want a stable but supported version. That might/maybe resolve this type of issue, but maybe not.