Syrinscape Nova Q&A questions needed (esp from non-Syrinscape familiar people)

[Benjamin Loomes]

Heya,

Let me know if this is the wrong place to post. Am happy to move or remove.

I am Ben the CEO from Syrinscape.

Lots of people have been using the really nice integration the FG team built which is nice... soooo... we have recently been thinking MORE about how we can wrap Syrinscape around the concept of the way VTTs actually think about gaming (and how that can be used to control sound = with less and less need for an actual Syrinscape UI at all).

Sooo... You may have seen the recent announcements about Syrinscape Nova hitting early access. With Nova we have been exploring the concept of:

Map --> Location sound
Effects --> add over effects like rain and thunder and fire etc
Creatures --> tied to what is currently in the Combat Tracker
Music --> Flexible independently from all of this.

We are having a Q&A this Wed about all this, and I'm really keen to get some input from not-the-usual-devoted-in-the-loop-Syrinscape-community

If anyone is intrigued then you might:
1) Head over and take a look at this: https://syrinscape.com/nova/
2) Have a play with this: https://nova.syrinscape.com/
3) Drop in the forum thread and add some questions for our Q&A here: https://forum.syrinscape.com/t/syrinscape-nova-q-a-with-benjamin-loomes-21st-jan-twitch/23822 (there's info there too about actually watching the livestream if you are super keen)
4) OR just reply here, if you are not wanting to make accounts and things to post there.

Thanks in advance! :-)

[anstett]

I would be much more likely to use Syrinscape (I currently do not at all) if it just worked inside of FG like another extension.

Many of my players do not want to run FG, plus Discord let alone another thing to deal with.

I do pay for the Art Subscription here and would consider a similar thing for Sounds if it was integrated.

[Surge]

I tried getting the Syrinscape integration with FG working last week with a friend to test it out.

He couldn't hear any audio on his end after opening the web player, but I could on mine. Does it require a Syrinscape subscription to work?

[HywelPhillips]

I'm just an FG user who uses Syrinscape so I can't help with troubleshooting too much but...

@Surge: First of all, get this working with Syrinscape web player first, and worry about controlling it from FG second.

The person controlling the sounds (the GM) needs to have Syrinscape account and set up a "game" in Syrinscape. You then send a your-game-specific link to the players to open up the web player. You need a Syrinscape subscription to get access to the full sound library, but you should be able to run a game with the free soundsets for testing without paying.

My guess would be that your player opened a web player that was not using the game-specific link to your game - they probably opened their own player that they could play sounds from, rather than "listening" to the sounds you were playing. You need to send them the game-specific link which you can find on your Syrinscape online control panel. (Person icon at top left of Syrinscape screen -> Online Control Panel -> Show/Copy Link).

Once you have got that working, you just need to set up the Syrinscape controls in Fantasy Grounds - it ask you for the auth token from this same screen. Detailed instructions are here:
https://fantasygroundsunity.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/FGCP/pages/2078932993/Using+Sound+Links


@anstett: it would be nice if the sounds were played directly from FG VTT without any additional overhead.

But once you (the GM) have got it set up, the only thing the players need is a web browser pointing at the Syrinscape online player using your game link. There is a button to post this directly in the FG chat for them to click on and it'll pop up for them. It contains a volume control slider so they can control their own volume themselves to their taste. Once adjusted they can minimise the browser window they just need it open in the background on their computer. It's literally three mouse clicks. It remembers their volume setting from session to session, so it's two mouse clicks every week after that.

The only thing you need open as a GM to hear the sounds is likewise a browser window in the background open to your game link. You can control everything else from inside FG.

Some people use Discord bots to pipe it into their Discord sound channel, but we found that everyone opening up a browser window at the start of the session is a tolerable overhead. I just re-share the link each week in the Discord and in FG's chat. (The link stays the same session to session unless you deliberately change it).

I believe the larger issue is that there's a lot of work under-the-hood to make a sound system with a lot of sounds as well as the control system which works remotely. As with video and voice conferencing, that's a whole app requiring a whole development team and it's not likely that SmiteWorks could do that themselves. Hence why everybody uses Discord (even the people running games via Roll20 which supposedly has built in video and voice - I've never been in a game where that's lasted more than a week trying to use the built-in version) and why both Foundry and FG have opted to let people control sound from within the VTT but using Syrinscape to actually deliver the sounds and the massive sound libraries that make it appealing.



@Ben: I've posted on the Nova thread on the Syrinscape forums but here I'll just say that Nova definitely is a better fit to the way I actually ended up controlling sounds in my FG games. I hope there will be some relatively clean way to control it from within FG via a second pass at the control interface when it is fully up and running. (It might be as simple as a "Only show me the Nova sounds" filter in FG when setting up one's sound links).

Cheers, Hywel

[Lo Zeno]

Heya,

Let me know if this is the wrong place to post. Am happy to move or remove.

I am Ben the CEO from Syrinscape.

Lots of people have been using the really nice integration the FG team built which is nice... soooo... we have recently been thinking MORE about how we can wrap Syrinscape around the concept of the way VTTs actually think about gaming (and how that can be used to control sound = with less and less need for an actual Syrinscape UI at all).

Sooo... You may have seen the recent announcements about Syrinscape Nova hitting early access. With Nova we have been exploring the concept of:

Map --> Location sound
Effects --> add over effects like rain and thunder and fire etc
Creatures --> tied to what is currently in the Combat Tracker
Music --> Flexible independently from all of this.

We are having a Q&A this Wed about all this, and I'm really keen to get some input from not-the-usual-devoted-in-the-loop-Syrinscape-community

If anyone is intrigued then you might:
1) Head over and take a look at this: https://syrinscape.com/nova/
2) Have a play with this: https://nova.syrinscape.com/
3) Drop in the forum thread and add some questions for our Q&A here: https://forum.syrinscape.com/t/syrinscape-nova-q-a-with-benjamin-loomes-21st-jan-twitch/23822 (there's info there too about actually watching the livestream if you are super keen)
4) OR just reply here, if you are not wanting to make accounts and things to post there.

Thanks in advance! :-)

I've actually been looking at Syrinscape Nova for a couple of weeks now, and while I like the concept right now it's... hard to figure out what's good and bad about it. Mostly because it's incomplete, and it's not clear how campaigns, soundsets and sound packages will "translate" to the new interface.
And it's a major problem when running a published adventure, because ther soundsets for Waterdep: Dragon Heist (for example) are neatly organised per encounter/scene of the adventure, and "splitting" the sounds into music, locations, creatures and effects means a lot of clicking around instead of having all the sounds related to a book chapter in a single window as it is now when using the FG integration. The same problem honestly shows up on the Nova web player, if instead of selecting "Zentharim Hideout" and have all the ambience, monsters, battle music and NPC voices in one convenient place I have to navigate between Location -> Hideout for the ambience, Music -> Kenku Battle when the battle starts, then Creatures -> Raener introduction for the NPC voice, it's a lot of loading time between each click to get to each relevant soundboard before selecting a sound (because the interface is not exactly instantaneous).
Also at this stage of the early access it's not yet possible to create our own soundboards, so it's hard to test it outside of the usual "you meet at a tavern and you are approached by a man who needs bodyguards to traverse the orcs' lands" scenario.

[Benjamin Loomes]

I've actually been looking at Syrinscape Nova for a couple of weeks now, and while I like the concept right now it's... hard to figure out what's good and bad about it. Mostly because it's incomplete, and it's not clear how campaigns, soundsets and sound packages will "translate" to the new interface.
And it's a major problem when running a published adventure, because ther soundsets for Waterdep: Dragon Heist (for example) are neatly organised per encounter/scene of the adventure, and "splitting" the sounds into music, locations, creatures and effects means a lot of clicking around instead of having all the sounds related to a book chapter in a single window as it is now when using the FG integration. The same problem honestly shows up on the Nova web player, if instead of selecting "Zentharim Hideout" and have all the ambience, monsters, battle music and NPC voices in one convenient place I have to navigate between Location -> Hideout for the ambience, Music -> Kenku Battle when the battle starts, then Creatures -> Raener introduction for the NPC voice, it's a lot of loading time between each click to get to each relevant soundboard before selecting a sound (because the interface is not exactly instantaneous).
Also at this stage of the early access it's not yet possible to create our own soundboards, so it's hard to test it outside of the usual "you meet at a tavern and you are approached by a man who needs bodyguards to traverse the orcs' lands" scenario.

Hiya Lo Zeno,

This is all really useful stuff our Q&A. We'll chuck this concept in the mix and make sure I talk about it = how Adventure content will be brought into Syrinscape Nova making it actually EASIER to use, not HARDER = there's a LOT of good thinking to happen here. :-) ...and maybe some useful community contribution to make sure we get it right!

You are most welcome to drop into the stream and contribute in the comments (real time responses etc)... or I will link to our VOD once the stream is done.

Anyone else?! I'd love more questions from FG peeps!

[anstett]

@HywelPhillips "the only thing the players need is a web browser pointing at the Syrinscape online player using your game link."

This is a step too far for players sometimes.
I have players with minimal laptop specs and limited bandwidth. We only use the Chat function in FG, no voice, no Discord, nothing outside of FG. That allows everyone to be focused on one window during play.

We moved to FG from KloOge. We had all the sounds inside of that VTT that we ever needed. It served us well for about 20 years. Sounds are the one thing my players do miss with FG.

I would pay a Sound subscription like I do the Art subscription if it was inside of FG.

[arkanis]

I don't see NOVA as much an improvement for me over what it was before. It doesn't bring anything meaningful to my table.
And I know it comes with the times, but I'm sick tired of paying subs for everything, especially overpriced niche subs.

[LordEntrails]

So not a current sound user, but have been thinking about it. Have poked around nova.syrinscpae.com and do like the Soundboard>Music/Locations/Creatures/Effects organization. Though I would hope for a Search All capability.

I'm leery of having to have all of the players open a web browser. My players are unlikely to to be willing to do "one more thing". And if a free account is required, they just wouldn't do it. Even something so simple. A Discord bot integration would be much preferred.

I guess I would need a paid account to create a playlist? Such features I would desire in a playlist would be the ability to overlay sounds and have them played at random times rather than just a simple repetitive track. Ability to play various tracks/ overlaid sounds sets for specific amount of times and then move to the next. Or for the transition to the next to be triggerable. i.e. play Bar until triggered then play Tension, then play Fight.

Weapon effects, I know you have them, but don't see any. I know the current FG integration can set up triggers for such and that would be required with Nova as well.

Right now, and probably for the next few years, I'm only playing sci-fi and cyberpunk games so the fantasy focus is not appealing. And on that note, not all of the sample soundboards work for me. i.e. for example Planar Journey, Coastal Adventures, and Sci-Fi Teaser load but don't actually play any sounds. When I click a sound the current one from another board keeps playing. I have not tested all the sample sound boards, only 4 of them.

I'm always a bit uncomfortable with subscriptions, but understand the business justifications.

[rigerco]

I've never been able to get the intergration working for my remote players (and they are following the link). My main game FG is FtF and I use Syrinscape for that. My biggest problem is that the online player and FG interface give me little control over volume levels like the desktop player. Sometimes I want one element or another to be emphasized and I can't do that. It's hard to tell how long a piece of music is and sometimes I have to contstantly restart it since it wont play on a loop. Sometimes oneshot events trigger and it kills the sfx, mood, or music file. Othertimes, the music file takes over and the one shots never trigger. The worse offense, however, is that the search function for sounds in both FG and Syrinscape leaves a lot to be desired. I think before looking to integrate a beta version of your interface, creating an overall better, and more consistent, user experience inside FG would be a better use of resources.

[Benjamin Loomes]

Heya, thanks for this good paragraph of stuff. :-) I might reply to a few bits separately.


if a free account is required

Your player DON'T need an account to listen in with the basic player. They just need to open your share audio link in any browser on PC or MAC (presuming you are using the Web Player and not the Online Player(?)

Surely players can do that?! Otherwise I guess you can share audio using Kenku through Discord?

Something there works?

[Benjamin Loomes]

Interesting wording here. :-)


overpriced niche subs.

What would you consider a NOT "Overpriced niche subs" for something like Nova?

Because... the SuperSyrin level on Syrinscape gives access to the huge library of official content, plus content authoring, plus uploading private samples, plus... etc... so if you just wanted a basic set of ambiences and music, what would be a reasonable investment to get that going?

[Benjamin Loomes]

don't actually play any sounds.

Yes, without some kind of subscription only sounds on the Default board will play for you. Want me to do a trial unlock for you so you can have a wider play with it?


rather than just a simple repetitive track
Yes, all of Syrinscape is non-repetitive, randomised, non looping. Nova is doing the same thing the Web Player is doing, but just making less of a show of it.


transition to the next to be triggerable
Yes, you WILL be able to set up Scenes. Once you have everything mixed how you like it, you'll be able to save that in a list of things you can then step through.

In town on a rainy day
Adding in Thunder
Distant dragon sounds
Dragon battle
Aftermath
etc

[arkanis]

Interesting wording here. :-)



What would you consider a NOT "Overpriced niche subs" for something like Nova?

Because... the SuperSyrin level on Syrinscape gives access to the huge library of official content, plus content authoring, plus uploading private samples, plus... etc... so if you just wanted a basic set of ambiences and music, what would be a reasonable investment to get that going?

You are charging a premium because it's niche. Do you have a huge library of content?. Spotify, Netflix, beats you by orders of magnitude at the price point. And that's not counting the user experience, which by the way it's dismal, considering the responsiveness and lack of updates on the PC client, the step backwards which to me is this web interface or the convoluted setup for FG.

[Benjamin Loomes]

You are charging a premium because it's niche. Do you have a huge library of content?. Spotify, Netflix, beats you by orders of magnitude at the price point. And that's not counting the user experience, which by the way it's dismal, considering the responsiveness and lack of updates on the PC client, the step backwards which to me is this web interface or the convoluted setup for FG.

Hmmm… sorry you are frustrated. :-/ …but… as far as I can tell, Spotify’s lowest rate is equal to our highest rate ($12.99/m), right? For Syrinscape you can pay as little as $8.50/m.

We do have an enormous Library of sound (seriously), and it will ALL be available in a brand new UI we are working on and asking for feedback on right now.

The PCs apps got a really good update with nice features people were asking for (e.g. streaming content and install all) not so long ago.

We’ll keep trying, I guess.

If you are having probs with the FG integration, I’m sure there are people who would be glad to help. :-) Ask rather than struggle?

[LordEntrails]

Thanks Ben. Sounds like you have the features I'm interested in already.
I also appreciate the offer for the trial unlock. I really don't have time right now. Work is busy and my hobby time is very full for the next month or so. I am getting pretty good vibes and a feeling that I really want to spend some time trying it out this year.

[Jiminimonka]

You are charging a premium because it's niche. Do you have a huge library of content?. Spotify, Netflix, beats you by orders of magnitude at the price point. And that's not counting the user experience, which by the way it's dismal, considering the responsiveness and lack of updates on the PC client, the step backwards which to me is this web interface or the convoluted setup for FG.

I doubt there are hundreds of millions of people using Syrinscape like there are Netflix or Spotify. Not a realistic comparison.

User experience varies but Nova is an attempt to improve that. I tried setting it up in KenkuFM but the page kept asking for login and then not working.

[Benjamin Loomes]

I doubt there are hundreds of millions of people using Syrinscape like there are Netflix or Spotify. Not a realistic comparison.

User experience varies but Nova is an attempt to improve that. I tried setting it up in KenkuFM but the page kept asking for login and then not working.

Yes, indeed! The margin Netflix will need per user is going to be quite a lot smaller than we need. :-D

Re Kenku... thinking about it... Nova needs to pop out an Authorise window first time you use it in a browser (the way we have it put together right now), and maybe Kenku can't do that. Reckon that might be the prob? We can probs fix. :-) ...or at least definitely will before we call Nova "out of Early Access" :-)

[Jiminimonka]

Yes, I think its the popout to another browser that is the issue.

[arkanis]

Hmmm… sorry you are frustrated. :-/ …but… as far as I can tell, Spotify’s lowest rate is equal to our highest rate ($12.99/m), right? For Syrinscape you can pay as little as $8.50/m.


I pay 7 bucks for spotify, there's always plans. I play 1 or 2 times a week, that's 8 times/mo optimistically so I wouldn¡'t pay more than 5$ for what your app gives me in return, considering that setting up the sounds in FG is still a chore. And I thank you for updating the client after 1 year or more without updates. Much appreciatedI IMHO, having an updated app and adding features is more important to me that you trying to reinvent the wheel.





I doubt there are hundreds of millions of people using Syrinscape like there are Netflix or Spotify. Not a realistic comparison.

User experience varies but Nova is an attempt to improve that. I tried setting it up in KenkuFM but the page kept asking for login and then not working.

That's why I said its niche, there's nothing that's is related to do an apples to apples comparision. But is apples to apples comparing the bang for the buck, and it doesn't bode well for Syrin.
And as a side note, Yes, Netflix had a huge number of users and HUGE costs of production too, with shows well in the hundred of millions in costs of production.

[Lo Zeno]

And as a side note, Yes, Netflix had a huge number of users and HUGE costs of production too, with shows well in the hundred of millions in costs of production.

Since it's something I had to keep an eye on last year: in 2025 Netflix spent almost 18 billion USD on content production and the revenue it collected was around 45 billion USD, while the prediction at the start of 2025 was to reach only 38 billions. The increased revenue was consistent with an increase in the number of users (more people subscribing = more money). This essentially mean that for every dollar spent, they bring in 2.50 dollars before expenses; in net terms, spending 1 dollar actually brings their bank account up 1.50 dollar, instead of down 1 dollar (pre-tax, but still). Netflix has 325 million subscribers.
Spotify in the same year spent 10 billion dollars in royalties to the music industries, and generated 13.5 billion dollars in revenue. So for each dollar spent, their bank account went up 0.35 dollars (again, pre-tax). Spotify has 281 million paying subscribers (and 432 million free subscribers). The free subscribers generate revenue through advertisement, yet you can see how despite having double the total subscribers that Netflix has, Spotify generates only 1/3 of the revenue of Netflix, because paying subscribers, while fewer, cover a higher proportion of the total revenue.
I am 100% certain that Syrinscape does not even get close to the profitability level (how much your bank account grows per dollar spent) of Spotify, let alone Netflix.

In 2021, Netflix costs amounted to 17 billion USD, but the revenue it collected was only 29.69 billions - userbase was at ~220 million paying subscribers.
So between 2021 and 2025, increasing the costs by only an extra ~5.5% made their revenue increase by a massive ~30% - because their paying subscribers increased by ~30%

All this to show that the huge (yes, they are huge) cost of production that Netflix incurs are dwarfed by the revenue generated because of the massive paying userbase: the relation between costs and revenue stops being linear when the userbase of these businesses reaches a certain critical mass, so as Benjamin Loomes said:

The margin Netflix will need per user is going to be quite a lot smaller than we need

[arkanis]

In 2021, Netflix costs amounted to 17 billion USD, but the revenue it collected was only 29.69 billions - userbase was at ~220 million paying subscribers.
So between 2021 and 2025, increasing the costs by only an extra ~5.5% made their revenue increase by a massive ~30% - because their paying subscribers increased by ~30%

All this to show that the huge (yes, they are huge) cost of production that Netflix incurs are dwarfed by the revenue generated because of the massive paying userbase: the relation between costs and revenue stops being linear when the userbase of these businesses reaches a certain critical mass, so as Benjamin Loomes said:

Very well documented, kudos for that!.
Still doesn't change the fact that I don't get enough bang to pay what Syrin ask for, profitability issues are not of my concern. After many years paying I realized what a money waster it was so I bailed out. Maybe can he offer a one-off downpayment, like FG ultimate once did?. When i'm paying a sub, I expect more than once a year updates and content that is at least language agnostic.

[LordEntrails]

Not every product can appeal to every potential consumer. But providing constructive feedback (like this) can help drive the product towards something that fits for a larger market. If that's what the company desires (not all companies want to grow).