Call of CThulhu bugs in calculating skill points

[Pieter]

The latest release of Call of Cthulhu 7E has problems with calculating skill points. I discovered this when I continued the game I have been running for a while now. Easiest to see this, is when you start a new game:

Start a new game, without any extensions.
Create a new character. Fill in 50 for all attributes. Then select as Occupation "Smuggler". Choose DEX for Occupation Points.
You now see that the character only gets 100 Occupation points. It should be 200, namely 2xEDU + 2xDEX. The points for DEX are not counted.

The next bug is then on the skill points tab. Occupation points are shown according to the incorrect calculation. When you start filling in Occupation points, they are correctly subtracted, except when you fill in Credit Rating. Whatever you fill in there is NOT subtracted from Occupation points.

There may be more bugs, but this should be enough to start the debugging process.

[superteddy57]

Pushed an update to address your report. Please report back if anything is still amiss.

[Pieter]

Thanks, but the problem persists. I did the update and tried it once more. After loading the module it says "Call of Cthulhu (7th Edition) ruleset (2026-01-10)", so it looks like I use the updated version. However, when creating a character I see exactly the same problems.

[Pieter]

Actually, it has gotten worse.

For some reason it now uses DEX to calculate Occupation Points, but no longer uses EDU.
Then, when you go to the Skills tab, you can no longer spend Occupation points on Credit Rating, which you actually must do.
Also, when on the Occupation screen it shows (incorrectly) that I have 160 points available, on the skills tab it shows 180 points (which is also wrong, with the values I filled it it should be 310 points, namely 2x80 from DEX + 2x75 from EDU).

66172
66173

[superteddy57]

Pushed another update. Verified the math works out now.
66174

I double checked and can change the occupation field for credit rating.
66175

[Pieter]

Thank you. It is improved but not completely solved yet.

First, no longer are any of the skills which need a specification (i.e., Language, Art/Craft, Fighting, Firearms, Science ) visible on the Skills tab when you create a new character. You can add them, of course, at the top of the screen with the blue buttons. However, I would say (and this was the case earlier) that all the skills that are occupation skills should at least be visible, and Language (Own) should also always be visible. This problem is probably linked to the next one:

Second, when you create a new character the occupation skills are no longer marked with a dot (the dot which is NEEDED to be able to add occupation points to them). You can now mark them manually, but that is not supposed to be how it works. You select your occupation skills in the occupation window. These skills should then be automatically marked (plus Credit Rating) on the Skills tab (which is how it worked before). You should not have to do that yourself, nor should you be able to add other occupation skills here.

Third, calculation of occupation skills points still seems to be incorrect on the Skills tab. What I see there is the total number of skill points PLUS the low end of the Credit Rating range. It is as if I get the skill points for the low end of the CR range for free. That is incorrect. These points should be subtracted from the occupation skill points (you can see this on your screen as well: the character has 310 skill points with a CR range starting at 20, you filled in 30 for CR, and still have 300 left).

66176

[superteddy57]

Thank you. It is improved but not completely solved yet.

First, no longer are any of the skills which need a specification (i.e., Language, Art/Craft, Fighting, Firearms, Science ) visible on the Skills tab when you create a new character. You can add them, of course, at the top of the screen with the blue buttons. However, I would say (and this was the case earlier) that all the skills that are occupation skills should at least be visible, and Language (Own) should also always be visible. This problem is probably linked to the next one:

Second, when you create a new character the occupation skills are no longer marked with a dot (the dot which is NEEDED to be able to add occupation points to them). You can now mark them manually, but that is not supposed to be how it works. You select your occupation skills in the occupation window. These skills should then be automatically marked (plus Credit Rating) on the Skills tab (which is how it worked before). You should not have to do that yourself, nor should you be able to add other occupation skills here.

Third, calculation of occupation skills points still seems to be incorrect on the Skills tab. What I see there is the total number of skill points PLUS the low end of the Credit Rating range. It is as if I get the skill points for the low end of the CR range for free. That is incorrect. These points should be subtracted from the occupation skill points (you can see this on your screen as well: the character has 310 skill points with a CR range starting at 20, you filled in 30 for CR, and still have 300 left).

66176

Pushed another update. The code was a tad fragile and needed to shore it up more and redesign some thing. The credit rating calculation was on me as I misunderstood the rules on it. It should default to the minimum level for cost and be placed in the occupation field for calculation. The base field shouldn't populate with any number for credit rating. I ended up having to lock the occupation toggle on the character sheet as the reverse of adjusting occupation skills in reverse would have broken quite a bit. If an occupation skill has a sublabel and it's removed as an occupation skill, it will leave the old skill behind. Didn't want a skill to be removed on accident. So this will need to be manual to remove unwanted skills that are no longer occupation skills.

Please report back if it's still acting up.

[Pieter]

Looks pretty good now, but there are still some issues.

First, on the Skills tab, when I add a new skill with one of the blue buttons, e.g. Science, the line on which I have to fill in the specific skill cannot be editted.

Second, even if I could add the specific skill, the starting values for Fighting and Firearms are filled in as -1%, and they should vary depending on the particular skill (maybe this is solved when the right specifics can be added).

Third, I would also add the Fighting (Brawl) skill to the Skills tab by default, as everybody has that skill (just like everybody has Language (Own)). You can actually see that skill on the Main tab, so it is weird that it may not be on the Skills tab (I tested this with the Smuggler occupation).

[superteddy57]

Thank you with your patience with this. The code seems to fall apart the more I poke at it and the character I was testing with had the Fighting (Brawl) skill already there. I tweaked more and it's not appearing on my end. I was a tad zealous with the lock down to ensure occupation skills couldn't be changed cept on the occupation record for the character sheet. It should now be editable. This of course does fix the second issue as it defaults to -1 and then changes when you set the specialization. I verified with Bow. As I stated earlier, for your third point, it is intended to have this skill default, but the code didn't seem to include it. I have set it up to have Credit Rating, Lang - Own, and Fighting (Brawl) as occupation skills moving forward. I think this ensures they are on every sheet and locked into place. Let me know if I need to tweak it further.

[Pieter]

Thanks for working on it through the weekend :)

Unfortunately, it needs further tweaking.

First, Language (Own) and Fighting (Brawl) are not Occupation skills by default (but Credit Rating is), so you cannot solve it like that. Something being an occupation skill means that you can spend occupation points on it. If you make these two skills occupation skills, then the character can put occupation skill points in them. That is not supposed to be possible. These two skills should always appear on the skills tab, but they should only be marked as occupation skills if they are selected like that in the Occupation window. If they are not selected, only personal points can be spent on them. BTW, I don't think there is any occupation that has Language (Own) as an occupation skill.

Second, while Language - Own has a line underneath it where you are supposed to fill in the language, that line cannot be editted.

Third, if I add a Fighting skill with a blue button, but then do not fill it in, I can delete it again (this works because there is a trash can in front of it). However, if I then close the module and load it again, the trash can icon no longer appears in front of that skill. It still apears for skills for which I filled in specialization, but not for those for which I did not fill it in. Also, this "broken" skill is now an occupation skill (starting at -1), as a red dot is placed in front of it (and I can indeed spend occupation points on it).

Fourth (which is a very minor point, but may be easy to solve), when I add a skill with a blue button on the skills tab, then put points in it, and then delete the skill again, the points remain subtracted from the totals at the top. Once the points are changed for another skill, the totals are updated again, and are corrected. I assume that a function is called to update the totals, but that that function is only called when points are changed, not when a skill is deleted.

BTW, now I have your attention I have a small request, but please just consider this a "would be nice to update at some point in the future". The point is this: in the combat tracker I cannot update HP for player characters (I can do it for enemies, though). If I want to update HP, I have to go to the character sheet, unlock it, and do it there. This is not necessary for combat as you can drop things on the combat tracker, but HP sometimes gets updated outside combat, e.g., if a character falls from some height. So I usually have to ask players to update HP themselves. It would be great if the HP for player characters on the combat tracker can be updated manually (and MP as well), just like I can do for enemies. (Note: even in combat I seldom use the possibilities I have as Keeper to do attacks automatically, as I sometimes want to tweak a roll a bit, so I usually just roll the dice and update manually.)

[Pieter]

Any updates on this? Currently I can run games which are already started, but starting a new game is a bit wonky. It can work, but you have to know what to do. Okay if the answer is "it's in the works," I just would like to know if my post was seen.

[superteddy57]

I saw your post, but no solution was found.

[Pieter]

Thanks. Hope that is solved in the future. It worked correctly before.

[superteddy57]

Thanks for working on it through the weekend :)

Unfortunately, it needs further tweaking.

First, Language (Own) and Fighting (Brawl) are not Occupation skills by default (but Credit Rating is), so you cannot solve it like that. Something being an occupation skill means that you can spend occupation points on it. If you make these two skills occupation skills, then the character can put occupation skill points in them. That is not supposed to be possible. These two skills should always appear on the skills tab, but they should only be marked as occupation skills if they are selected like that in the Occupation window. If they are not selected, only personal points can be spent on them. BTW, I don't think there is any occupation that has Language (Own) as an occupation skill.

The current approach is still being looked into, but nothing stops the GM from informing the player not to input points into the Occupation field. It works like it did before, just currently set as an occupation skill to ensure it's on every new character sheet. I will be still looking into a more final solution for this and that requires trying some things and finding a better concrete approach than was done previously in the code.



Second, while Language - Own has a line underneath it where you are supposed to fill in the language, that line cannot be editted.

I have this solved, just not releasing it till I've tried to solve the above. If not a solution is found soon, then I will push this fix.


Third, if I add a Fighting skill with a blue button, but then do not fill it in, I can delete it again (this works because there is a trash can in front of it). However, if I then close the module and load it again, the trash can icon no longer appears in front of that skill. It still apears for skills for which I filled in specialization, but not for those for which I did not fill it in. Also, this "broken" skill is now an occupation skill (starting at -1), as a red dot is placed in front of it (and I can indeed spend occupation points on it).

Same as above


Fourth (which is a very minor point, but may be easy to solve), when I add a skill with a blue button on the skills tab, then put points in it, and then delete the skill again, the points remain subtracted from the totals at the top. Once the points are changed for another skill, the totals are updated again, and are corrected. I assume that a function is called to update the totals, but that that function is only called when points are changed, not when a skill is deleted.

Same as above


BTW, now I have your attention I have a small request, but please just consider this a "would be nice to update at some point in the future". The point is this: in the combat tracker I cannot update HP for player characters (I can do it for enemies, though). If I want to update HP, I have to go to the character sheet, unlock it, and do it there. This is not necessary for combat as you can drop things on the combat tracker, but HP sometimes gets updated outside combat, e.g., if a character falls from some height. So I usually have to ask players to update HP themselves. It would be great if the HP for player characters on the combat tracker can be updated manually (and MP as well), just like I can do for enemies. (Note: even in combat I seldom use the possibilities I have as Keeper to do attacks automatically, as I sometimes want to tweak a roll a bit, so I usually just roll the dice and update manually.)

This is by design and done so on the character sheet. adjusting the wounds is possible, but anything directly linked to the PC sheet is handled there. Thanks for the feedback and will consider it when we plan on doing any expansion of the code with new features. For now, I'm going with universal standards for consistency and how the code wishes to behave under the hood.

[superteddy57]

Pushed an update to address your reports.

[Pieter]

Thank you. It looks like most of it is resolved now.

What remains is the following: if I add a skill such as Fighting on the Skills tab, and then do NOT fill it in (so no specification, and no points invested), then close the module, open it again, and look at the character sheet, the erroneously added skill is still there, it is marked as an occupation skill, and it cannot be removed anymore. Skills that I added and DID fill in, can still be removed.

It is a relatively small thing, as the character sheet can be used. It's just ugly -- as a neurotic person I would recreate that whole sheet to get rid of that errorneous skill.

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[superteddy57]

Yeah I see what you mean. I am trying to get this code to play nice and will look it over as that would drive me nuts as well.

[superteddy57]

I tweaked the settings more to do some further checks when assigning custom skills. See if this helps remove that skill and everything else is working as intended. I tested with the character on my end and followed your steps and was able to verify the issue and fix it from what you described on my end.

[Pieter]

Thank you.

I hate to say it, but there is still a small issue: When creating a new character, Language - Own now starts at nothing, and it should start at EDU. Funny thing is that if I close the module and open it again, it is set to the correct value. So evidently it is simply not being displayed.

After creating the character: 66265
After closing the module and re-opening it again: 66266

[superteddy57]

Thank you.

I hate to say it, but there is still a small issue: When creating a new character, Language - Own now starts at nothing, and it should start at EDU. Funny thing is that if I close the module and open it again, it is set to the correct value. So evidently it is simply not being displayed.

After creating the character: 66265
After closing the module and re-opening it again: 66266

Thanks, someone else reported it as well. The visuals is a huge help. I'm thinking the base isn't updating at the correct time. I'll get it solved.

[Eddiesuxnutz]

Thanks, someone else reported it as well. The visuals is a huge help. I'm thinking the base isn't updating at the correct time. I'll get it solved.

https://i.imgur.com/LZlFofO.png

My skills are a complete mess. This has stopped my group's game night in it's tracks. Everything is unplayable now.

[mma1092]

i'm glad to know that i'm not going crazy. my group and i have been working on starting up a down darker trails Call of Cthulhu 7th ed game. I am the GM, and after creating a character sheet and then a player starts to edit it, then I open it to the main sheet page and wave my mouse on it and a TON of the stats change numbers randomly like I'm watching a slot machine. and then on the skill list, their skill totals get doubled. for some reason it's counting the spent column into the total column.

[superteddy57]

Thanks for the reports. Appears the total field added all the fields to the left of the total instead of just the parts, so it applied the total spent points twice. I pushed a new fix to remove this double calculation.

[Finsteel]

Where are the development phase skill points supposed to be entered? We started a new campaign about month ago and we have marked the development phase skill points in the 'spent' column as it used to be empty and suitable for that purpose. Now it's filled with a sum of occasional and personal columns and the invetigators' developed skill points we marked there are lost...

[superteddy57]

The code didn't point me to it being anything but a collection of the occupation and personal spends. I can make it a third collection. This will require setting those points again and adjusting the sheets with this behavior. The code however is not pointing me to that direction with how it was calculated and was set automatically by the code that was there.

[Finsteel]

It could be that my gaming group has entered the developmnet phase skills in the wrong column. The 'spent' column just seemed a proper place as it was not used for anything when we started. Also the image on the Die Hard Gaming webpage seems to indicate the column was not used to total occupational and personal skill points. (https://diehard-gaming.com/call-of-cthulhu/ and the image next to 'Finish Skills' section)

[superteddy57]

I put it back with further adjustment to be a field like occupation and personal spends. This will require a manual adjustment on the player's part to correct it. It will show duplication in the total till the player adjust the sheet. I do apologize for any inconvenience this has caused, but I'm only going by the code that was there. The image above showed the spent field being set by the addition of the occupation and personal spends and the code (which was the old code) did exactly the behavior I shored up. Now the total field will sum up the base, occupation, personal, and spent fields moving forward. There is no way at this time to programmatically place old values into that field and will require a manual adjustment of the field.

[Nylanfs]

This is why it's important for developers to comment their code, so those coming after can understand it. :)

[Eddiesuxnutz]

I put it back with further adjustment to be a field like occupation and personal spends. This will require a manual adjustment on the player's part to correct it. It will show duplication in the total till the player adjust the sheet. I do apologize for any inconvenience this has caused, but I'm only going by the code that was there. The image above showed the spent field being set by the addition of the occupation and personal spends and the code (which was the old code) did exactly the behavior I shored up. Now the total field will sum up the base, occupation, personal, and spent fields moving forward. There is no way at this time to programmatically place old values into that field and will require a manual adjustment of the field.

Does this mean our skill values are permanently lost? I respect all your effort and time on this, but this is really tough to deal with. None of us remember our exact skills, and there's no real way to remake our characters without guess work, because every session is unique and we've all changed so many stats as we play.

[superteddy57]

If you have an earlier db.session file it could be grabbed out of there and added in through the XML. The date matters of that saved session as well, so it might not be exactly correct. This was due to the previous way the control operated and me following it's setup. It can't be reverted as the sheet wouldn't remember the previous amount that was stored there. So the only option would be those db.session files if there are any.

[Eddiesuxnutz]

If you have an earlier db.session file it could be grabbed out of there and added in through the XML. The date matters of that saved session as well, so it might not be exactly correct. This was due to the previous way the control operated and me following it's setup. It can't be reverted as the sheet wouldn't remember the previous amount that was stored there. So the only option would be those db.session files if there are any.

This is very helpful, we do have the db.session files. Is there a string in particular we can search to find out skills? The file is so massive that it's very hard to parse, but with some guidance, I think it could all be found.

[superteddy57]

You can copy the current db.xml out so you don't lose it (maybe on your desktop) and just change the db.session file to db.xml. Then you can log in and export the characters out.

Then just rename back to the db.session name it had before and copy back in the original and import those characters in. Or you can open the xml and located the <charsheet> tag and that should contain all the characters in the campaign. Locate the spent field for each skill and jot them down and update them in the campaign. A few different avenues. Just be sure to copy the files before renaming to be on the same side.

[Eddiesuxnutz]

Thank you for your repeated help and continued communication. I (and my 6+ friends) really appreciate it.

[superteddy57]

My pleasure. Just helping keep the system going with no issues.

[Pieter]

I have to resurrect this thread, because the creation of new investigators is still not working as it should. I am starting a new game at the moment, and the module does not allow me to fill the sheets in correctly.

One minor and one major problem. The minor problem is this:

I create a Bootlegger here. When looking at the occupation, there are NINE slots for occupation skills (I did not add one with the +). That should be only 8. See screenshot: 66510

As I said, a minor thing. However, when I then want to fill in occupation points, the Fighting (Brawl) skill is NOT an occupation skill. See screenshot: 66511

That means that I cannot spend occupation points on it. For now I can resolve it by spending some points in the third column, and leaving those unspent as occupation points, but this is not correct.

What is also a minor incorrect point is that Language (Own) has no value. When I close the module and reopen it, it gets a value, but it is a bit ugly.

What I also find a bit strange is that there are these trash cans in front of all the skills. I am only supposed to be able to remove skills that I added myself, not ALL the skills. But that again is minor.

[superteddy57]

I have to resurrect this thread, because the creation of new investigators is still not working as it should. I am starting a new game at the moment, and the module does not allow me to fill the sheets in correctly.

One minor and one major problem. The minor problem is this:

I create a Bootlegger here. When looking at the occupation, there are NINE slots for occupation skills (I did not add one with the +). That should be only 8. See screenshot: 66510

As I said, a minor thing. However, when I then want to fill in occupation points, the Fighting (Brawl) skill is NOT an occupation skill. See screenshot: 66511

That means that I cannot spend occupation points on it. For now I can resolve it by spending some points in the third column, and leaving those unspent as occupation points, but this is not correct.

What is also a minor incorrect point is that Language (Own) has no value. When I close the module and reopen it, it gets a value, but it is a bit ugly.

What I also find a bit strange is that there are these trash cans in front of all the skills. I am only supposed to be able to remove skills that I added myself, not ALL the skills. But that again is minor.

Thanks for the report I'll make note and have a look.

[superteddy57]

Can you provide me some test characters by exporting them and sharing them with me for testing purposes?

[Pieter]

Here is the one I just created. I can see if I can test it a bit further and see what else comes up.

[Pieter]

Here is another one. With this one, a LOT of things are wrong. I created this one from scratch.

It's a Smuggler. Smugglers have Firearms as occupation skill. That went fine, and there wasn't a ninth occupation skill.

However, when I began to fill in the skills, I noticed the following.

First, while the Smuggler has a credit rating between 20 and 60 (and must remain in that range according to the rules), I managed to change the 20 that the occupation skills automatically added to 5. That should not be possible. Moreover, I then gave the Smuggler 70 personal points, bringing his Credit Rating to 75, which is outside the allowed range. Basically, I am allowed to fill in whatever I want for Credit Rating.

Worse is that I could give Charm 60 occupation points and 30 personal points, which is added to the 15 starting points, bringing the total to 105. That is not allowed according to the rules: upon character creation all skills must be 99 or lower.

But even worse is that after exiting the module and reloading it, the starting values for Fighting (Brawl) and Firearms (Handgun) had become -1. And I cannot even change those.

I attach the Smuggler here.

[superteddy57]

The ruleset does do somethings that are against the rules and not something it will police as a consideration for homebrew is made. So up to the GM to ensure those creation creation rule breaking to be a table decision. The other points sound like the skill is not linking to the skill record and pulling the correct information. I thank you for the characters and will report back when I have a solution.

[Pieter]

Yeah, I am actually fine with giving the GM the ability to diverge from the rules. But if we head in that direction: I would love to have the ability to set the maximum HP of investigators, rather than having it calculated. That's for the future, though.

[Pieter]

Here is another problem.

I created a Private Investigator. This occupation has an occupation skill Art/Craft (photography). This skill is on the occupation screen, but does not appear on the Skills tab. When I add this skill manually, it appears but is NOT an occupation skill. So I cannot put occupation points in it.

[superteddy57]

I've done a revamp of the skill list on the character sheet and other minor micro systems. This was to shore up the code in this location and help it from breaking further. Please hop onto the TEST server and copy over your campaign to test the characters with some players to ensure no data is lost and it's working as intended. Please report any issue here:
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?86767-Call-of-Cthulhu-7E-PC-Skill-List-revamp-(02-09-26-to-02-23-26)

[Pieter]

I can try something on Thursday, but I don't know how to log on to the TEST server. I have never done that before.

[superteddy57]

https://fantasygroundsunity.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/FGCP/pages/3078127621/Beta+Testing+How-To+and+Update+Previews

[Pieter]

I followed your instructions and went onto the TEST server. I opened a campaign I was starting. What I see is completely unusable.

First, the existing investigators don't work correctly. See in the screenshot for instance the Bootlegger. It looks like the columns for Occupation Skill Points and Personal Skill Points have been switched. Worse, there are now only two occupation skills, namely Credit Rating and Firearms, and for Firearms the specification for the type of Firearm is gone. Fighting (Brawl) is missing completely.

Then I tried creating a new investigator, Namely a Private Eye. In the occupation window I was allowed to select one free skill. That is actually incorrect, but I guess it was added because the first skill, which should have been "Firearms" (with a line to specify which), was missing. I clicked on the free selection, and the only selection available was "[Brawl]". Which is not even a skill, it should have been "Fighting (Brawl)".

I now went back to the skills tab, and found it completely empty! Not one skill was visible. As this stops any further testing in its tracks, I left it at that. See screenshot.

Screenshot: 66570

[Moon Wizard]

@Pieter,

Can you please provide a zipped up copy of your campaign folder; so that @superteddy57 can use your characters as examples to verify the changes?

Regards,
JPG

[superteddy57]

Your attachment doesn't appear to contain anything to look at. As Moon suggested, please zip up your campaign and use a cloud resource to share here for me to download and look at the result.

[superteddy57]

I also would appreciate if you could tell me where bootlegger is from so I can check out that occupation?

[Pieter]

Bootlegger is a standard Criminal.

I attach the campaign as I had it on the Test server here (it is not really a campaign yet, just some characters I was experimenting with for a campaign that will run in the near future). The Test character was made on the Test server (and has an empty skills tab). The other characters I made on the Live server.

I the image that I uploaded before, you can see to the left the "Bootlegger" (Criminal), with only two occupation skills, no Fighting skill (and I did not remove it, it is visible on the Live server), and no specs for the Firearms skill. To the right of it you see the skills tab of the Private Investigator which I made on the Test server, with next to it the corresponding occupation window in which the Firearms Skill is missing (it should have been the first skill), and at the bottom I tried to select a skill and only could select "[Brawl]".

[superteddy57]

Can you also provide the original campaign as well, so i can see the differences between them? I appreciate the help.

[superteddy57]

Ok, I see some issues from your eras. Can you do me a favor and in the Test campaign, delete the Eras here:
66572

Then reload the campaign and then check the occupations.

[Pieter]

Here is the original campaign.

[Pieter]

After deleting the eras and reloading the modules, the skills have returned.

When I create a Private Investigator, though, the last occupation skill is free, as it should be. However, when I try to select something there, the first option is "[Brawl]". When I select that, it evidently means nothing because the skill does not appear in the skills tab. When I select Fighting for the free slot, I can fill in "Brawl" and then the skill appears on the skills tab. However, "Fighting (Brawl)" only appears on the skills tab if it is an occupation skill, while it should always be there (but marked as occupation skill if that is relevant).

Moreover, if I return to the occupation window and change "Fighting (Brawl)" to "History", "Fighting (Brawl)" remains on the skills tab (which is okay) but with an empty default number of points (which should be 20). Furthermore, "History" is now an occupation skill, but also with an empty default number of points (while it should be 5).

66575

When I then reload the module, the History value remains empty. However, when I unlock the sheet and then look at the skills, History has the correct value 5. But when I then lock the sheet again, the value is once more empty.

66576

I also notice that "Art/Craft (photography)" is NOT on the skills tab, even though it is an occupation skill.

I include the Test version of the module here.

[superteddy57]

After deleting the eras and reloading the modules, the skills have returned.

When I create a Private Investigator, though, the last occupation skill is free, as it should be. However, when I try to select something there, the first option is "[Brawl]". When I select that, it evidently means nothing because the skill does not appear in the skills tab. When I select Fighting for the free slot, I can fill in "Brawl" and then the skill appears on the skills tab. However, "Fighting (Brawl)" only appears on the skills tab if it is an occupation skill, while it should always be there (but marked as occupation skill if that is relevant).

Moreover, if I return to the occupation window and change "Fighting (Brawl)" to "History", "Fighting (Brawl)" remains on the skills tab (which is okay) but with an empty default number of points (which should be 20). Furthermore, "History" is now an occupation skill, but also with an empty default number of points (while it should be 5).

66575

When I then reload the module, the History value remains empty. However, when I unlock the sheet and then look at the skills, History has the correct value 5. But when I then lock the sheet again, the value is once more empty.

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I also notice that "Art/Craft (photography)" is NOT on the skills tab, even though it is an occupation skill.

I include the Test version of the module here.

Yes, I noticed as well. I'll get it sorted. You have been a huge help. I'm glad the linking is connecting now with the new eras. Fighting (Brawl) is an odd duck as it should technically be Fighting and then in the sublabel be Brawl. I'll sort that out. I will respond here when I have posted a new build. Thank you again. You have been a very big help.

[Pieter]

I realized tonight that the skill "Art/Craft (photography)" as displayed in the occupations window is actually wrong. It should be "Art/Craft", and then on a line below it it should say "Photography". Same should be for Science and for Language, just like it is for Fighting and Firearms. I can imagine that part of the problem arises from that.

I just created a Nurse on the Test server. She has two of the sciences (Biology and Chemistry). They appear like photography, so as "Science (Biology)" in the occupation window, and do not appear on the skills tab. When I add them manually, they are not occupation skills. And they have empty defaults.

BTW, "Lanuage (Own)" also does not appear on the skills tab.

When I add Firearms, it leaves the default blank (but that probably ties in with what I said before). Defaults get filled in when I close the module and open it again.

I attached the test version of the campaign with the Nurse, in case you want it.

[Pieter]

I also created a soldier on the Test Server. "Fighting (Brawl)" is an occupation skill, but is not marked as occupation skill on the skills tab. "Firearms (Handgun)" is also an occupation skill, and that one IS marked as occupation skill on the skills tab.

I also created a secretary. She has "Art/Craft (Short Hand)". The Short Hand appears on a separate line in the occupation window, but not like that on the skills tab. In fact, on the skills tab it is rather weird, as I can change the WHOLE text "Art/Craft (Short Hand)", i.e., including the "Art/Craft".

The secretary also has "Language (Own)" as an occupation skill. To my amazement, this skill now appears no less than EIGHT times on the skills tab (and only once as occupation skill with the default value empty).

I gave her a "Language (Other)", and that one appears to be handled correctly.

ZIP file with test module included. (This one also includes the ones I discussed in the previous post.)

[superteddy57]

Ok, I had updated the occupations and did not push the updated version to TEST. I also did further changes to the ruleset. Can you update the TEST server side on your end and check out the changes. You may need to revert the core occupations and try with fresh characters.

[Pieter]

I updated, and loaded the same campaign. I deleted all the investigators, and created some new ones.

I started by creating a Nurse. In the occupation window, there should be "Science (Biology)" and "Science (Chemistry)" as occupation skills. They are not there, instead these two skills are empty. I filled one of these empty spots with "Science (Biology)" and the other with "Lang- Own", filling in English. On the skills tab, "Lang - Own" now appears twice, once as occupation skill and once without being occupation skill. Both have English specified. The occupation skill has an empty default value, the other one is filled correctly. "Sciency (Biology)" appears correctly. "Fighting (Brawl)" is missing.

I then created a Secretary. In the occupations window, the second occupation source should be DEX or APP. However, I get to choose between ALL possible attributes. Then, for the "Art/Craft" I should choose between "Typing" or "Short Hand". However, instead I get to choose between all possible skills. When I select "Art/Craft" there I can fill in "Typing" or "Short Hand", but for the heck of it I filled in "Archeology". Then I get to choose two interpersonal skills, but again, I get to choose between ALL possible skills. For one I now filled in "Art/Craft (Pottery)". Same problem arises when I have to choose between "Library Use" or "Computer Use": again I get to select from all skills.

Following that, on the secretary skills tab, I see "Art/Craft (Pottery)", but again with a blank default. "Lang - Own" appears SIX times, once as occupation skill. For all of them the default value is blank. It is also missing for "Firearms (Handgun)", which I filled in as the free skill. I added an extra skill here, namely "Science (Physics)", which appeared with a blank default value.

I then created the following. The occupation window had the same kind of problems as the secretary had. I could select from all attributes for the source, and from all skills for the free skill selections. While you could argue that when the description says "Climb or Swim", that it then is up to the Keeper to select one of these two, even if the selection possibilities offer everything. However, the last two free skills say "two of the following", and if you then get to choose between everything, it is clearly wrong.

For the skills tab of the soldier, "Fighting (Brawl)", which is an occupation skill, is not marked as such. "Firearms (Handgun)", however, is marked correctly. "Lang - Own" is missing.

Then I created a Private Investigator. The first skill in the occupation window should be "Art/Craft (Photography)", but it is empty. I filled it in manually. On the skills tab "Lang - Own" and "Fighting (Brawl)" are missing, but for the rest I saw no problems.

[Pieter]

When you say "need to revert the core occupations", what do you mean? Should I have deleted all occupations or something?

[superteddy57]

I updated, and loaded the same campaign. I deleted all the investigators, and created some new ones.

I started by creating a Nurse. In the occupation window, there should be "Science (Biology)" and "Science (Chemistry)" as occupation skills. They are not there, instead these two skills are empty. I filled one of these empty spots with "Science (Biology)" and the other with "Lang- Own", filling in English. On the skills tab, "Lang - Own" now appears twice, once as occupation skill and once without being occupation skill. Both have English specified. The occupation skill has an empty default value, the other one is filled correctly. "Sciency (Biology)" appears correctly. "Fighting (Brawl)" is missing.

I then created a Secretary. In the occupations window, the second occupation source should be DEX or APP. However, I get to choose between ALL possible attributes. Then, for the "Art/Craft" I should choose between "Typing" or "Short Hand". However, instead I get to choose between all possible skills. When I select "Art/Craft" there I can fill in "Typing" or "Short Hand", but for the heck of it I filled in "Archeology". Then I get to choose two interpersonal skills, but again, I get to choose between ALL possible skills. For one I now filled in "Art/Craft (Pottery)". Same problem arises when I have to choose between "Library Use" or "Computer Use": again I get to select from all skills.

Following that, on the secretary skills tab, I see "Art/Craft (Pottery)", but again with a blank default. "Lang - Own" appears SIX times, once as occupation skill. For all of them the default value is blank. It is also missing for "Firearms (Handgun)", which I filled in as the free skill. I added an extra skill here, namely "Science (Physics)", which appeared with a blank default value.

I then created the following. The occupation window had the same kind of problems as the secretary had. I could select from all attributes for the source, and from all skills for the free skill selections. While you could argue that when the description says "Climb or Swim", that it then is up to the Keeper to select one of these two, even if the selection possibilities offer everything. However, the last two free skills say "two of the following", and if you then get to choose between everything, it is clearly wrong.

For the skills tab of the soldier, "Fighting (Brawl)", which is an occupation skill, is not marked as such. "Firearms (Handgun)", however, is marked correctly. "Lang - Own" is missing.

Then I created a Private Investigator. The first skill in the occupation window should be "Art/Craft (Photography)", but it is empty. I filled it in manually. On the skills tab "Lang - Own" and "Fighting (Brawl)" are missing, but for the rest I saw no problems.

I'm not seeing Nurse in the core occupations. Are they coming from another module?

[superteddy57]

This is what I see when I look at the Private Investigator
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[Pieter]

Nurse is a core occupation.

Should I have deleted all the occupations before testing, or something? You said "revert occupations", but I did not know what that means.

[Pieter]

OK, I went on the Test Server. Did an update. Then created a completely new campaign. As modules activated the Investigators Handbook and the Keeper Rulebook. Then created a private investigator, and this is what I see in the occupations window: 66586

That is clearly different from what you see, in particular the description of the bottom skill.

[superteddy57]

Ok, I pushed an update to the Investigator's Handbook to the TEST server. Please update and check those occupations with the update.

[Egheal]

Testing this new test release, i have this error when I click the Skills tab the first time for all characters: [2/14/2026 9:22:40 AM] [ERROR] Script execution error: [string "CallOfCthulhu7E:../scripts/manager_char.lua"]:90: bad argument #1 to 'ipairs' (table expected, got userdata)
This on all my 3 campaigns, with or without extensions.

[superteddy57]

Testing this new test release, i have this error when I click the Skills tab the first time for all characters: [2/14/2026 9:22:40 AM] [ERROR] Script execution error: [string "CallOfCthulhu7E:../scripts/manager_char.lua"]:90: bad argument #1 to 'ipairs' (table expected, got userdata)
This on all my 3 campaigns, with or without extensions.

Can you share a copy of that campaign for me to test with? I would highly suggest not using extensions as i can't guarantee any working progress with extensions as this is all new code.

[Egheal]

Sure, link sent in PM. It happens even without extension.

[superteddy57]

Sure, link sent in PM. It happens even without extension.

Ok looks like removing the base Era records and reloading fixed the issue. I'll get some version code up to have them removed and have them rebuild. Thanks for letting me have a look.

[Pieter]

I updated, and loaded the same campaign. I deleted all the investigators, and created some new ones.

I started by creating a Nurse. In the occupation window, there should be "Science (Biology)" and "Science (Chemistry)" as occupation skills. They are not there, instead these two skills are empty. I filled one of these empty spots with "Science (Biology)" and the other with "Lang- Own", filling in English. On the skills tab, "Lang - Own" now appears twice, once as occupation skill and once without being occupation skill. Both have English specified. The occupation skill has an empty default value, the other one is filled correctly. "Sciency (Biology)" appears correctly. "Fighting (Brawl)" is missing.

I then created a Secretary. In the occupations window, the second occupation source should be DEX or APP. However, I get to choose between ALL possible attributes. Then, for the "Art/Craft" I should choose between "Typing" or "Short Hand". However, instead I get to choose between all possible skills. When I select "Art/Craft" there I can fill in "Typing" or "Short Hand", but for the heck of it I filled in "Archeology". Then I get to choose two interpersonal skills, but again, I get to choose between ALL possible skills. For one I now filled in "Art/Craft (Pottery)". Same problem arises when I have to choose between "Library Use" or "Computer Use": again I get to select from all skills.

Following that, on the secretary skills tab, I see "Art/Craft (Pottery)", but again with a blank default. "Lang - Own" appears SIX times, once as occupation skill. For all of them the default value is blank. It is also missing for "Firearms (Handgun)", which I filled in as the free skill. I added an extra skill here, namely "Science (Physics)", which appeared with a blank default value.

I then created the following. The occupation window had the same kind of problems as the secretary had. I could select from all attributes for the source, and from all skills for the free skill selections. While you could argue that when the description says "Climb or Swim", that it then is up to the Keeper to select one of these two, even if the selection possibilities offer everything. However, the last two free skills say "two of the following", and if you then get to choose between everything, it is clearly wrong.

For the skills tab of the soldier, "Fighting (Brawl)", which is an occupation skill, is not marked as such. "Firearms (Handgun)", however, is marked correctly. "Lang - Own" is missing.

Then I created a Private Investigator. The first skill in the occupation window should be "Art/Craft (Photography)", but it is empty. I filled it in manually. On the skills tab "Lang - Own" and "Fighting (Brawl)" are missing, but for the rest I saw no problems.

I have repeated these tests. I did an update and started with a fresh campaign.

Nurse: The Science skills are now in the occupation window. However, for the interpersonal skill I still get to choose between ALL skills. It should be limited to Charm, Fast Talk, Intimidate, Persuade. "Fighting (Brawl)" is still missing from the skills tab. It should always be there, because every character has it as a possibility for attacking (that is why it is on the main tab), but in combat it is ALSO used for maneuvers. When I add it myself to the skills tab, it appears with an empty default.

Secretary: I still get to select between ALL abilities for the second occupation point source, while it should be only DEX or APP. For "Art/Craft (Typing or Short Hand)" I still get to choose between all skills (basically, I should select between "Art/Craft (Typing)" and "Art/Craft (Short Hand)"). Same holds for the two interpersonal skills and for "Library Use or Computer Use". Interestingly, for this last one, Computer Use is not in the selection list. That is because of the era, I assume, and it defaults to the 1920s. On the skills tab, "Lang - Own" still appears EIGHT times, with the one which is the occupation skill having an empty default.

Soldier: Same problems as the secretary and nurse, with the problem for the last two skills in the occupation window highlighting why you should not be able to choose between ALL skills. On the skills tab, "Fighting (Brawl)" is not marked as occupation skill, even though it should be. "Lang - Own" is still missing.

Private Investigator: I gave him "Lang - Own (English)" as the free occupation skill. It appeared on the skills tab as occupation skill, but with an empty default value. "Fighting (Brawl)" is missing here (as it was missing for other investigators).

So it looks like the problem with the skills with specifics (Science, Art/Craft, Lang - Other) is (mostly) solved, but the other problems remain.

I wanted to zip the campaign for you, but I discovered that evidently the campaigns are not saved in the folder that I indicated for this. They are now in the folder channels/Test/campaigns. I got it from there.

[Egheal]

Yes, removing eras and reloding does work for me, thanks.

[Pieter]

On top of my previous test, I just created a "Bootlegger/Thug" (core class, subclass of Criminal in the book).

Beyond the problems I already noted before, on the occupation screen, there are nine spots to fill in occupation skills, and that should be eight. This might be an implementation error of this class, because I also noticed that there is an empty spot above "Stealth", which should be "Psychology" (which is currently missing from the window).

[superteddy57]

I pushed a new build with the removal of the default eras for campaigns to ensure skills and eras are created correctly. Please copy your old campaign back over and replace the one that was setup prior to this update and see if it solves the issue with errors related to skills and eras for the campaign.

[Pieter]

Test or Live?

[Moon Wizard]

It's currently in the Test channel; so superteddy57 was asking you to remove the previous Test channel campaign, and copy the one from Live to the Test channel again. He wants to check to make sure the migration code he wrote works with your campaign.

Regards,
JPG

[Pieter]

I have tested the new version.

The problem with the Bootlegger is now solved, but all the other problems are still remaining. These problems are:

In the occupation window:
- When you get to select a source for occupation skill points, you get to choose between ALL attributes, and not just the attributes which you are supposed to select from.
- When you get to select an occupation skill which should be from a limited set, you get to select between ALL skills, and not just the ones you should select from.
- If you select "Lang - Own", it will appear multiple times in the skills tab.

In the skills tab:
- "Lang - Own" problem mentioned above.
- "Fighting (Brawl)" is only listed if it is an occupation skill (it should be there always).
- When "Fighting (Brawl)" is an occupation skill, it is NOT marked as such on the skills tab.
- When "Fighting (Brawl)" is on the skills tab, it is listed without a default value (so, even if it is there automatically, because it is an occupation skill).
- When you add a new skill, it will not have a default value displayed.

[superteddy57]

I pushed an update to address your concerns. I will however not be adjusting the current behavior for occupation skill offerings as this is set manually outside of Fantasy Grounds at this time and will limit occupation creation for those that wish to make their own. I will have to come up with a solution to set the available options, but that is outside the scope of this current beta.

[Pieter]

The problem with that is that it is then no longer possible to create "legal" investigators without consulting the rulebooks. That is a major downgrade in functionality from how the module functioned last year. I personally own the rulebooks, but I do not drag them with me when we play, because they are heavy and Fantasy Grounds runs on my laptop. I bet I am not the only one who leaves the rulebooks home when they have Fantasy Grounds running. I can understand that it will take some time to resolve this, and that it isn't the most urgent issue, but it shouldn't be ignored.

I'll check out the other changes.

[Pieter]

I checked the new version.

Ignoring the selection problem:

- The problem with skills having no default value appears solved.
- The problem with "Fighting (Brawl)" NOT appearing as an occupation skill in the skills tab (even when it is), is NOT solved (it is there, but it is not marked as an occupation skill).
- The problem with "Lang - Own", when it is an occupation skill, appearing multiple times on the skills tab, is NOT solved (it does always appear with a default value, though).
- The problem with "Fighting (Brawl)" not appearing when it is not an occupation skill is NOT solved (I consider this the least important issue, though, as you can add it yourself, and then it appears with the correct default value).

[superteddy57]

Pushed another build to address the Fighting (Brawl) not appearing upon creation. I'm not seeing the occupation issues related to this skill or Lang - Own. I'm seeing both being set now with the latest update.
Note I changed them to help display they are being updated as occupation skills.
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[Pieter]

I went on the Test server, updated, and started a new campaign, activating the 7E Keeper Rulebook and Investigator Handbook.

- The "Lang - Own" problem appears solved.
- However, when "Fighting (Brawl)" is an occupation skill in the occupation window, it still does not appear as an occupation skill in on the skills tab. It is there, but it is NOT marked as occupation skill, so you cannot put occupation points in it. I tested this wih a Private Investigator (filling it in as free skill) and Soldier (who has "Fighting" as occupation skill, and I just needed to fill in Brawl).

[superteddy57]

I'll be pushing this to LIVE tomorrow and will continue working on the Fighting (Brawl) issue you reported. You may see it not resolved when it is released 3-3-26.