new token website

[devinnight]

For fun and practice I buillt a little site to showcase my tokens.
https://www.immortalnights.com/tokensite/index.html
The site promotes the tokens I sell at Four Ugly Monsters and the custom tokens that can be ordered.
-D

[Blue Haven]

When will you release a new pack?? i want more eh eh :)

[Xorn]

Wow. Those are made of win, man!

[Sorontar]

Wow. Those are made of win, man! Is it pure win or os it only x% win mixed with talc powder ? :D

[devinnight]

Thanks, no I only use 100% win.. not even the imitation win which contains only 30% awesome unlike pure win which has 70% awesome and 30% super cool.

After I release the current set of tokens which is based on map objects for a medieval chinese setting (170 of them) I will start a new set.. not sure yet what the subject matter will be.

-D

[Blue Haven]

Please Please Warhammer :) :) Please...

[longarms]

"For fun and practice... "

I read the text above and thought someone might be sharing their work with the community. Then I read the legalesse:

"I retain all rights to the artwork and tokens. You are in effect buying the right to use my tokens for personal use. You may not distribute the original tokens. "


Looks like selling tokens is nearly as popular of a side business as nickel-lemonade stands.

[Xorn]

Looks like selling tokens is nearly as popular of a side business as nickel-lemonade stands.

This really reads like an insult aimed at someone that is asking for pennies what looks like some extremely talented work. I'm going to give benefit of the doubt, and decide that you aren't comparing this person's work to the combined efforts of two eight-year olds on a hot day in July.

I'll assume I should read that as, "Man, I wish they were free!"

To which I'll respond, "Yeah, that would be cool, but this price is the next best thing!"

[unerwünscht]

I'll assume I should read that as, "Man, I wish they were free!"

To which I'll respond, "Yeah, that would be cool, but this price is the next best thing!"

I agree his work is good... But by my math if you want to buy his tokens it will cost more than $80 USD this is in no way shape or form a price that is "The next best thing" to free. Its more like the current cost of gas.

[devinnight]

Well let me put it to you this way....
It takes me at least 1-2 hours to create a token. It takes 2-3 hours to create a custom token for a player. Custom tokens sell for $4 each... that's about $1.30 and hour.

Token packs come with about 25-40 tokens in the set. Those numbers are too high to figure out an hourly rate on.
Sure coming in now and buying all of the tokens is an investment, but they are broken down into $5 packs. I also have bundled deals and regularly drop the price on older tokens as I make new ones.

Outside of this hobby I get considerably more for my time.. I hate to make statements like don't distribute them.. but in this business the difference between me just quitting and making more tokens is that there are a lot of great players out there that realize the effort it takes to produce these tokens.

I also release free sets yearly, while not a huge number of tokens they will eventually add up and round out some sets.

And unlike gas companies I don't think I'm gouging anyone just to line my pockets.

-D

[longarms]

I wouldn't even be this thread if the subject line (preferrably), the text of your initial post, or even your signature, had made it clear that you were selling something. Instead, I had to visit your website to find out.

I'm not in the market for tokens, so I shouldn't have even ended up at his website, but I did end up there and, yes the quality seems to be high. I have no idea whether the price is reasonable, because again, I am not in the market for tokens, nor am I interested in visiting webites about selling tokens.

Take it easy,
mike

[devinnight]

I think I understand the confusion... for fun and practice I created the website, not the tokens. I've been creating and selling tokens for almost three years now and regularly promote them in these forums.. I assumed (and this is my fault) that most of the people here have heard of me and the tokens.

The great thing is.. you aren't forced to buy anything. You can look all you want or don't want.

Sorry about the confusion.
-D

[Xorn]

I wouldn't even be this thread if the subject line (preferrably), the text of your initial post, or even your signature, had made it clear that you were selling something. Instead, I had to visit your website to find out.

I'm not in the market for tokens, so I shouldn't have even ended up at his website, but I did end up there and, yes the quality seems to be high. I have no idea whether the price is reasonable, because again, I am not in the market for tokens, nor am I interested in visiting webites about selling tokens.

Take it easy,
mike

I still won't assume that you felt it was appropriate to cheapen the effort put into the tokens by suggesting they were common and no more innovative than a lemonade stand. Because it still reads that way, and you've made no retractions.

Incidentally, I "showcased" a ton of the tokens I made myself (and can't share due to copyright) so I guess I should have apologized for not putting "no free tokens" in my subject line.

Sorry about that.

[unerwünscht]

I still won't assume that you felt it was appropriate to cheapen the effort put into the tokens by suggesting they were common and no more innovative than a lemonade stand. Because it still reads that way, and you've made no retractions.

Incidentally, I "showcased" a ton of the tokens I made myself (and can't share due to copyright) so I guess I should have apologized for not putting "no free tokens" in my subject line.

Sorry about that.

Apology accepted... :-)

But really, the tokens are VERY nice, and if you have the $80 to throw away on tokens for a game, I would suggest you do it. I on the other hand only make about 90K a year, and $80 for tokens is a bit much.

[unerwünscht]

Well let me put it to you this way....
It takes me at least 1-2 hours to create a token. It takes 2-3 hours to create a custom token for a player. Custom tokens sell for $4 each... that's about $1.30 an hour

Now on to this comment, because this lie bothers me ALOT.
I am not trying to cheapen your work, but you are trying to short sell the world, and I can not abide by that. The assumption that one must make in order to believe that you only make about $1.30 an hour on your tokens is that you only sell your tokens to one person. Yet it CLEARLY states on your site that this is infact not the case, and that you will repackage them at a later point. Thus lets assume you put them in a package that you then sell for $5 and only sell 100 copies of said package... How much do you really end up making for your work?


Aside from that you are a damn good artist and I would pay you $20 maybe more for a truly unique token, but would not pay $80 for even 500 tokens that everyone else has.

[devinnight]

If I could do the math on that it would still show that I don't make that much more on any one token, however you are right. As long as I have the tokens for sale I will continue to make a residual income.
Which is why it would hurt me (income-wise) if people freely distributed my tokens.

Regardless of additional sales though, the original purchaser of a custom token only pays $4 for 2-3 hours of my time, try finding anyone else that would work for that kind of money in the creative industry.

Thanks for the compliment at the end.
-D

[unerwünscht]

Ummmm.... I do custom tokens for free.
Granted mine are nowhere near as cool as yours, They take about the same amount of time.

[Sorontar]

Hmm the first pack deal

Approximately 400 tokens for $40, so for me that's about 5 pence per token.

Professional work at low prices IMO.

Definitely "pure win" DN ;)

[unerwünscht]

OMFG!!!!!
Your right
I didnt see that at all.... When I was looking through them it looked like around 100 tokens for $40..... I feel like such a **** jerk now.

So sorry. They should REALLY make that more clear on the FUM site.

[longarms]

Xorn - even if I did say or imply anything about the quality of the tokens he created (which I did NOT), I have to ask, why do you want to control what people say about his tokens? Do you get a cut, or are you planning on selling tokens in the future or something?

Devin - yes, I didn't recognize your name because I generally ignore posts about tokens for sale. Something tells me I will remember your name now :)

As an aside, most of the online communitys I am involved with have a designated forum for selling merchandise. This forum does not appear to have that, which also leads to the confusion of posts for selling merchadise being mixed in with people sharing their creations with the community.

[Xorn]

Xorn - even if I did say or imply anything about the quality of the tokens he created (which I did NOT), I have to ask, why do you want to control what people say about his tokens? Do you get a cut, or are you planning on selling tokens in the future or something?

Control? I just asked for clarification as to the intent of your post. It wasn't clear to me if you were overreacting and cheapening someone's hard work, or if it was something else I wasn't reading correctly. You can post whatever you like, I was just trying to figure out if I think you're being a jerk or not.

[unerwünscht]

Right so at least we all agree, he does good token work.

Also at least two of agree they should have a separate section for people selling their content as apposed to those who donate their time to improve the community.

To sum it all up, we are all jerks in our own way, and for the time it would seam that one of us (not me) has more talent than the others.

Fair enough?

[longarms]

You were doing something else besides "just trying to figure out whether I was being a jerk or not", because you could have done that by simply reading my posts and contemplating them. Instead, for some reason, you want share your conclusions, presumably to influence others, or presumably to head off anything else that could be viewed as a criticism of his product. I can't tell why you are doing this, and so I asked, but I don't think that I've received the real answer yet.

You've made your opinion very clear that Devin's tokens are HIGH quality and LOW prices. Between that and the rest of your posts, I am curious whether you are involved in the business of selling tokens, or hope to be in the future. Its no big deal if you are, but frankly, at this point, I am curious.

[Foen]

Hey guys, I'm not convinced this thread is doing anything to help the game.

There are good tokens out there (Devin has been making excellant stuff for a long time, and so have others) and some things have to be commercial too (IMHO, this genre isn't so much about being the next Bill Gates, as about having some small payback for devotion and personal commitment).

Beyond that, I'm not sure the thread does a lot to enrich the community.

Sorry if I call it how it is, but I don't enjoy the other stuff.:confused:

Stuart

[Xorn]

I'd be happy to answer your question:

No, I am not involved in the sale of tokens in any way, shape, or form. I made a quick tutorial on making tokens a few weeks ago.

I personally think that comparing anything someone has spent weeks of labor on to efforts involved with a lemonade stand is derogatory.

So I would like to formally apologize for asking if you meant to come of as derogatory as I took your comment to be. From now on, I will just react without consideration that I could be misinterpreting what you've said.

If you need a simpler version--I'll just conclude that you're as big a jerk as I took you to be, and apologize to the community for attempting to give you benefit of the doubt.

[unerwünscht]

man this is getting juicy.
Anyone wanna start placing bets?

[longarms]

Ahh, there is the apology to me wrapped up with calling me a big jerk at the same time. I think this discussion has reached its logical conclusion.

If it matters, I think its nice that you share your tokens with the community, Xorn. I checked 'em out, and they look nice.

[Xorn]

I apologized for trying to ensure that you weren't being a jerk, not for reaching the decision that your comment was "jerky". You specifically instructed me to not ask if it was a miscommunication.

I'm not looking to argue the point with you. I am sorry if trying to clarify what you were saying was offensive or upsetting. I am not sorry for labeling your comment as derogatory, since I tried to give benefit of the doubt. I have not shared any tokens with the community, because it would infringe on copyright--I only showed other people how to make them quickly.

I will not be participating in this discussion further--because I've been very clear on my stance from every point of view. I'll read any response you want to give, but I just have nothing else to say.

[unerwünscht]

I apologized for trying to ensure that you weren't being a jerk, not for reaching the decision that your comment was "jerky". You specifically instructed me to not ask if it was a miscommunication.

Now who is being a "jerk"?

and yes before anyone points it out, I am being a jerk as well....
But I am growing to understand more and more, why my friends got banned from this community. and it seems to be a matter of mob mentality among those who "contribute" to the community... If you can call any of this contribution.

[bobthebuilder]

I run games and I wouldn't use any of your tokens even if you gave them to me for free.

***


I wouldn't even be this thread if the subject line (preferrably), the text of your initial post, or even your signature, had made it clear that you were selling something. Instead, I had to visit your website to find out.

That's right. Same happened to me.


I'm not in the market for tokens, so I shouldn't have even ended up at his website, but I did end up there and, yes the quality seems to be high. I have no idea whether the price is reasonable, because again, I am not in the market for tokens, nor am I interested in visiting webites about selling tokens.

Take it easy,
mike

Same here!


and yes before anyone points it out, I am being a jerk as well....But I am growing to understand more and more, why my friends got banned from this community. and it seems to be a matter of mob mentality among those who "contribute" to the community... If you can call any of this contribution.

Well said!

[scytale2]

Gosh - what a mess...

On this legal issue, I have a question. I have (purchased) some of your tokens and usually DM with them. But as a player can I give them to a DM to use, or does that count as distribution? I know that I used a mule token for a particular character and it made sense at the time to give it to the DM to use in the game I was playing in.

I don't really mind what your answer is, but I thought you might have a helpful clarification.

[devinnight]

In cases where the player wants to use a custom token or even buy the tokens for the Dm that is completely fine with me.

I'm also not opposed to groups of players in a steady group buying them and channeling them to the current DM.

I trust that the gamers will do the right thing and they can always contact me for any clarification or permissions.

Thanks.
-D

[Astinus]

Regardless of additional sales though, the original purchaser of a custom token only pays $4 for 2-3 hours of my time, try finding anyone else that would work for that kind of money in the creative industry.

Have to agree with Foen about the tone of this thread, but also had to chime in. Just a few days before xmas I contacted Devinnight with a custom token request. I wanted to give my brother a christmas present for his character. Not only did Devinnight provide quality artwork at a bargain price, he turned it around in a couple of days at one of the busiest times of the year.

Man I appreciated that! Things like that make me appreciate this community an awful lot.

[unerwünscht]

You know, 3 times I have made a comment about this community, and three times now you have jumped in to defend them. You are not doing a very good job of showing that the "contributors" do not mob up on people. Only that you just might be a portion of that mob.

[Stuart]

Not only did Devinnight provide quality artwork at a bargain price, he turned it around in a couple of days at one of the busiest times of the year.

He did ? Wow ... he must like you ... I usually have to wait for a whole week ! Bah ! :D

At one point I think I had 21 different players with 21 unique tokens and I think it really added to the games I ran (well ... the games sucked but they looked good !). That said, my current game uses generic tokens from Digital which work just as well. Eventually, when the game settles ... I'll be asking Dev for more tokens ... and expect them turned round in a couple of days too !:p I've bought loads from Dev and never had any quibbles ... I've seen some of the free tokens and pieces that Xorn and a few others have produced, really impressive.

On the token distribution angle ... Personally, if a player with a unique token (that I have purchased from Dev) drops out, his token is retired and never used. At the price Dev sells them at and my own job situation, it's no big deal to "lose" the money and I'd like to think that if I had a unique token and dropped out, my token would retire along with my character. Only occasionaly have unique tokens (that I have purchased) turned up in other games so I think most DM's and players are "behaving" and acting courteously.

In truth, I think 99% of the FG community behaves that way most of the time but, sadly, the nature of verbiage rather than discourse is that misunderstandings and apparent brusqueness are all too common on the threads here. Despite the lamentable number of posts I have (my charge up the FG peerage is pathetic), I've been playing for a long time now and have bumped into most of the common posters here via a game; all decent people, some with more posts than me ...

[longarms]

"... and I think it really added to the games I ran ..."

Stuart - I am not sure whether you are speaking as a gamer, or as a someone who works for digital adventures. If you are speaking as a gamer, then I just want to assure you that your presence at the game table is a huge asset regardless of what items you purchased before coming to said game table.

mike

[Stuart]

Umm ... both I think ?

As a DM, and on the rare times when I have played as a Player, I thought it was just neat/cool/nice to have a token that *really* depicted the character. Not necessary by any means and ultimately the Players and DM "make" the game but ... still, I got a kick out of playing a Samurai (I dimly remember a lot of odd and rather corny faux Oriental sayings along the lines of - If smells like bean soup and looks like bean soup. It is bean soup) with a really decent and authentic looking samurai token. Running Arcana Evolved games, having a few Dracha and Litorian tokens was nice too.

[Jingo]

We're all role-players. Someone just make a Diplomacy roll and get over it. ;)

Personally I love Devin's tokens, so here's a free advertisement for him. Buy them! And no, I don't get a kick back for any amount of my support.

They look awesome! Doubt me? Check out this post where I used them in one of my FG1 games many moons ago and awed my players :)

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5747

By the way... I love FG. Just had to say that.

[unerwünscht]

Go back and read this thread again. No one has doubted the quality of his art, we are doubting the quality of his person.

[devinnight]

I find it interesting that you use the word "we", who exactly do you represent in the matter of my character?

I think this thread says more about your character than about mine. So allow me to give you something to base your opinions on.

I created this thread to share the website I had created. I had taken a short class on webbuilding at the college where I teach and I was excited to use some of that before it slipped out of my short-term memory. As an artist I love to create and I like to show it off, positive feed back keeps me going.

So when Iongrams was upset that he had visited my site, I in turn tried to figure out why. Realizing that the best I could do was to add the extra line onto the original post stating that the site was intended to sell tokens.

I feel bad that Xorn and Iongrams argued over the content of my site and the way I posted the info. I don't want to take sides and I didn't post about that situation because I felt that it would make it worse.

I then broke down the time I spend on the tokens and what that roughly works out to on an hourly basis. At the time you were under the impression that I was really overcharging for the tokens. Granted, later you admitted to not really paying attention to what a customer got for his/her money. But I thought that if I showed that I do them for as cheaply as possible that it would make a difference.

Still you thought it would be nice to call me liar and for some reason try to make me look bad because I continue to sell the work in packs. At this point I could have made some mean comment back, but again I just explained that your assumptions were incorrect. Since I have access to the store and it's sales I know how much I make and I have a better Idea of what it is.

Bobthebuilders comments probably stung worse than yours. To my knowledge I have never dealt with him. I'm not sure why he feels as strongly as he does. But I did take that personally and it hurt.

It seems that whenever someone has something nice to say about my tokens and indirectly me. You, and at least once Iongrams had to look for some type of conspiracy. Is it not enough that some people just want to say something nice. I don't pay these people, they don't work for and I'm proud that they like my work.

To everyone who has posted nice comments and have been attacked for doing so I appreciate you guys doing it. To anyone who wishes to make constructive criticism I can take it and I appreciate that as well.

So if you feel the need to judge my character look back at the posts I have made, look through the posts I have made since I became a member of these forums. Then decide if I'm really that bad a guy because I sell tokens.

Before you post, I ask that you look back on your posts as well and decide who here has to really be concerned about how their character comes across.

-D

[VenomousFiligree]

I like the token so I buy them. If I didn't I wouldn't! :D

Never met the guy in real life, although I have dealt with him over the tinterweb and he was "a pleasure to do business with" :cool:

MB

[unerwünscht]

I find it interesting that you use the word "we", who exactly do you represent in the matter of my character?

I think this thread says more about your character than about mine. So allow me to give you something to base your opinions on. ...

WOW.... maybe you should write books...

Anyways, in answer to your question, go back and read your short story, and I am sure you will figure out who the "WE" would be. You complained about them as well. Tho I would guess at this point from my collection of PM's that you could add around 40 more names to that list.

I still maintain that you are a liar, and make a LOT more off of your tokens than $1 something an hour, but I feel confident that there will be a special place in hell reserved for self loathing capitalists like yourself, so I digress. Bobthebuilder only said what many people are thinking, and are too afraid to say, because they don't want you to get upset and have your friends chase them off the site, or worse get them banned.

As far as your conspiracy theory goes, almost every post I made has pointed out how good your tokens were, but at this point I wouldnt care if you daVinci your skills are not good enough to compensate your personality, and it would seem that you either can't take constructive criticism are just flat unaware of the meaning behind the words.

And finally my moral character is sound, I'm not the one trying to pass myself off as working for less than minimum wage for the better of the community. Nor am I the one making new websites to try and sell old products to a group of people who either 1) have already purchased my product, or 2) think I'm flat crazy to try and charge $80+ for a supplement to a program that costs less than $30.

Pat yourself on the back all you want, you are just a digital thug.

[Judokas]

As you can see I don't have many posts and am indeed a noob. I really don't see the problem or get the uproar. Early in this post, members mentioned there should be another section in the forum for "selling stuff" and I think everyone was in agreement.

After that it all went further downhill. I am not about to take sides as I know little about this stuff (how long it takes etc) nor frankly do I care. What I will say and why I am posting is 2 reasons:

1. I would not call most of the criticism constructive beyond the suggestion for a new forum section. The rest is just name calling and nit picking.

2. If people don't want to buy this stuff then don't. If the new forum section is opened then people who are not interested dont have to look there and people who are can. So the initial suggestion of the new forum section resolves the original complaint.

On a side note - I am interesting in the tokens and may very well buy some but thats because I suck at artwork -> therefore I value the product. All I have to decide is - am I willing to pay X dollars to get it or do I perfer the free versions which may not have that level of artwork or selection.

Well, that is this noobs opinion, hope to see you all in a game sometime soon.

[Sorontar]

WOW.... maybe you should write books...


And back on my ignore list

[Ram Tyr]

To the extent that Devin needs a character witness for the benefit of those being introduced to him through this thread...On one occasion last year a friend of mine needed some artwork done and Devin was willing and able to help out because I asked. I thought it was very generous of him and certainly not very thugish behavior.

Based on what I know about Devin (via our internet friendship), if I were walking along with Devin I would have an easier time picking out good points to imitate than bad points to correct.

Later.

[devinnight]

Well I had hoped that my post would help resolve the issue.
Sadly your need to pick a target and go at it blindly outweighs your ability to be a mature and responsible person.

I won't respond anymore and sadly I ask that people that like me and my work avoid posting as well.

On the other hand if the 40 people who feel the way Uner does would like to contact me in any form I will gladly listen to your thoughts on my tokens or myself. Like I said I can take it.

-D

[unerwünscht]

And back on my ignore list
What you cant handle truth?


Well I had hoped that my post would help resolve the issue. Sadly your need to pick a target and go at it blindly outweighs your ability to be a mature and responsible person.

Trust me, you are meaningless to me, and I have a MUCH bigger target in mind, and in fact you could have avoided 99% of this by simply admitting that you make more than $1 an hour off of your tokens. I am pretty sure that anyone who can do math at this point can figure it out, but it would have been better of you to admit it at some point. But no, once again you try to spin the table in your direction, and then cap it off by saying "I won't respond anymore".

I have so much more I want to say to you, but its not worth the time. I know that you don't have what it takes to admit you lied, and you don't have the strength of character required to intimidate me.

[Snigwiddle]

Double post.

[Snigwiddle]

***Disclaimer***
I am in no way affiliated with Devin Knight or FUM.

Pretty sad that I have to put that in so I don't get flamed for having an opinion.I really like the Beatles.That don't mean that me and JohnPaulGeorgeRingo are in some secret Illuminati conspiracy together where I get .0001 cents each time I mention how great they are in a forum.
(Beatles kick ***!BTW.Send me some money Sir Paul!!!)

****Rant on****
Maybe I'm not the sharpest knife in mammas kitchen drawer, but how were you guys so misled by Devin that you feel the need to slam him as a person?Is your time so friggin valuable that a simple click on an interesting thread in a small,niche hobby website cost you something precious?Did a small fragment of your soul get leached from your being by a man trying to make a little money off of his AWESOME work? Did he steal your babies and spit in your oatmeal?

I can understand if you purchased something from the man and were unhappy.Great.Game on.Slam away. But, it doesn't sound like any of you guys dogging him and his business practices/character even care what he is selling.You only want to drag someone down who do what you can't do.

I honestly doubt that a talented artist like him,making little figures for a GAME-(got that-A GAME-something played for FUN-)is kicking it in the Carribean with the profits he has obviously wrenched from your silk-lined purses with his clever schemes and shady,mindless minions-who boldly self sacrifice themselves on these forums to drive up his bottom line.And if he is? So what.Who cares if he makes pennies or Microsoft money.What does this have to do with the great tokens?

You bunch of Trolls wouldn't even be happy if he gave these tokens away for free-UnnnHHH!!!Mines not the right color-WHAAAHHHH!!! his swords in the wrong hand-CRAP!!!I had to pay someone in this detestable free-market economy for a product that I can't produce myself.BOOHOO!!!Somebody is advertising in the right forum,in the right place, with a product that many who come to this sort of place for this sort of thing would find desireable.
What is that Dastardly Devin and his evil tokens going to do next?
Tune in next week for another exciting adventure in ludicrous posting.

You know something else? We are all here because we play these silly little games, with our silly little friends, to have some silly little fun.We are all here for the same reason.To enjoy a little escape.Why do you feel the need to come here and spout vitriol at a guy who has done more to promote this hobby than you have?Because he's trying to sell tokens?Unreal, man,unreal.
Have your slams against Devin accomplished anything but make this place craptastic, like the rest of the outside world?

And by the way.I haven't bought any of his tokens because I have a mortgage and car payments and daycare and a grown up life that doesn't allow me to blow cash like I want to.So all of my opinions of his great work are based on what I have seen on these Internets.That's why I come here.To learn about all of the things possible with this software.Please don't ruin a good thing for the rest of us who enjoy these little advertisements.And PLEASE go back to Pwning NOoBS on Warcraft you UbEr L33t dudes and leave the art to the artists and the game to the gamers.
Oh and one more thing,Weiner-Shnitzel-LongJerkyArms-and BobtheJackasstrollBuilder-thanks for firing me up so much you pulled me out of Lurker Mode.****Rant Off****
I'd say that I'm done with this thread and won't be reading any more ---but you know I'd be lying---so flame away you turds..I'll be hanging on your every, important word.

[unerwünscht]

***Disclaimer***
****Rant on****
Maybe I'm not the sharpest knife in mammas kitchen drawer, but how were you guys so misled by Devin that you feel the need to slam him as a person?Is your time so friggin valuable that a simple click on an interesting thread in a small,niche hobby website cost you something precious?
Etc....

LOL... You rawk dude.

[Xorn]

What you cant handle truth?

I would make the assumption that he just thinks you're a colossal douche who rarely has anything positive to contribute to any thread you post in. I base that assumption on my own casual observations leaving me with the same impression.

On my ignore list, too.

And yes, I got in the last word intentionally because I have no respect for you.

[unerwünscht]

Again thank you, now Thor since I know you will end up reading this, can you go ahead and ignore me as well... And joshua you too. I'm sure there are others but I cant think of you by name at the moment. But I will be very happy with that start.

[joshuha]

Eh why me? I haven't posted anything about this thread.

[unerwünscht]

Because there happens to be a group of elitist *insert derogatory word of your choice* on this site, and it would seem that you and Thor are well respected and honored amongst them. I would go into more detail, but I am truly busy working with people from Open Source Management at the moment. So if you would like to go into more detail later send me a PM, and I will be happy to go over why I am upset with target members of the community here, and why I associate you and Thor with them.

[longarms]

"After that it all went further downhill. I am not about to take sides as I know little about this stuff (how long it takes etc) nor frankly do I care. What I will say and why I am posting is 2 reasons:

1. I would not call most of the criticism constructive beyond the suggestion for a new forum section. The rest is just name calling and nit picking.

2. If people don't want to buy this stuff then don't. If the new forum section is opened then people who are not interested dont have to look there and people who are can. So the initial suggestion of the new forum section resolves the original complaint. "


The silver lining to this thread is to see that the point I was trying to make got through all the name calling, at least for one person out there.

mike