Dice Won't Roll In Chatbox

[rocketvaultgames]

With the update to 4.8, it appears there is no way to constrain dice rolls to the chatbox. The last thing we want is dice rolling all over the screen.

Please tell me I'm missing an option somewhere that will make it work like it used to...

[Jiminimonka]

This has been in Test for a while and Doug even made a sneak peak video.

Now dice go all over the screen and results appear in the chat box like usual.

You can also scale the dice in the Dice UI.

[rocketvaultgames]

This has been in Test for a while and Doug even made a sneak peak video.

Now dice go all over the screen and results appear in the chat box like usual.

You can also scale the dice in the Dice UI.


Yup. It's a strict downgrade for my group's usability of FG as I mentioned in the TEST forum.

It's fantastic if others want it, but just have an option to keep the excellent functionality that existed before...


OPTION: Force Dice Rolls to Chatbox: On/Off

[DagBateway]

+1 for this.

It would be great to allow players to roll only in the chat with a configurable setting.

Thanks

[rocketvaultgames]

Or if it's somehow easier... as extension akin to: "Core Old Templates 2025-08.ext" that would maintain the old functionality for dice rolls would do the trick.

[srbongo]

I'm a little divided as well on the update to this. Honestly, it's really distracting to see dice flying around my screen from other players while I'm GMing. Before we understood there was an option to scale down the size I honestly wondered if the SW team was trolling me. There's usefulness to being able to roll anywhere, but I'm wondering if the dice showing for everyone all over the screen is a bit much

[rocketvaultgames]

There are a few issues I have with it.

1. I have no issue whatsoever with the previous longstanding implementation. (and that is saying something... I usually have some quibble with everything!)

2. On the GM side, I'm always looking for every opportunity to save microseconds during a session (my biggest current complaint is how laggy FG is with a lot of actors/effects in the CT). So now having dice flying all over the place when I'm trying to take a few seconds to look at the next thing I need to, while the players are rolling, is extremely distracting and adds both time and aggravation. (I thought at first I might get used to it, but I'm quickly realizing this might actually end my use of FG... and I fight through a lot to make FG do what I want well enough...

3. Example: Fireball... 8d6... Old system, all the dice land near each other and can be easily read at a glance... (those fun quick observations of spotting multiple 6s and 1s and intuiting a good/bad roll is fun!) Now they just go everywhere and the roll can't be easily "appreciated" for the lack of a better term. And wherever you are looking, isn't likely to be the chatbox... where you have to look next for the result! Before, your (and all the players') attention was already right there!... all experiencing the roll together.

This feels akin to, in a live session, just throwing the dice all over the table instead of rolling them in a dice tray. It's madness.

4. In a limited number of situations I could see wanting to roll a (single!) gigantic d20 that decides something super important in the campaign that flies all over the table.


What am I missing? Why do people like the new method? Do they not suffer the drawbacks I mention? Or is there some benefit I'm not seeing that outweighs the detriments?

[SoftmintSheep]

I won't be so dramatic, but I too would like the GM option to limit rolls to the text box. Not sure if this is to sell more dice skins or something to keep up with competitors but I always enjoyed how clean and tidy it was to section off the dice to one side. It's not like players roll behind the GM screen in in-person games haha!

[LordEntrails]

Actually, I would vote for an option that simply disabled the display of other users rolls. As far as I care as the GM (and pretty much as a player), all I care about are the results that show up in the chat.

Given that the dice is a physics simulation bounded by the rolling region, not sure it would make much visible sense for them to be limited to the chat box for some users and not others.

[srbongo]

Actually, I would vote for an option that simply disabled the display of other users rolls. As far as I care as the GM (and pretty much as a player), all I care about are the results that show up in the chat.

Given that the dice is a physics simulation bounded by the rolling region, not sure it would make much visible sense for them to be limited to the chat box for some users and not others.

Definitely, it's only the dice showing up everywhere (and for everyone) that's any issue at all.

[ddavison]

Basically all the other VTTs do it this way (if they support dice) and it was confusing and frequently brought up by new users. FG dice are arguably the best dice as well, so this puts them more front and center.

RPGs are a turn-based game. You shouldn’t be seeing everyone’s dice everywhere all the time - just when it is their turn and the focus should be on what they are doing or attempting anyway.

[wndrngdru]

You shouldn’t be seeing everyone’s dice everywhere all the time - just when it is their turn and the focus should be on what they are doing or attempting anyway.

Except when fidgeters like me forget to hold the ALT key while flinging dice around the screen. ;)

[Egheal]

I'm a fan of the new dice behavior.
When I use Foundry as a player or GM there is no problem of dices flying everywhere all the time (some would say that it is because the dices animation and art in Foundry is vastly less beautiful than in FGU :cool:).
Just say to your players "don't do that, please" or "use the ALT key, please", it could help.
Because that, potentially, is the only real problem.
To simulate the Chatbox effect, you can throw the dices softly to get them nicely grouped or with strength if you want chaos.
But, yes, like Lordentrails, I would vote for a per user option that simply disable the display of other users rolls.

[RosenMcStern]

What am I missing? Why do people like the new method? Do they not suffer the drawbacks I mention? Or is there some benefit I'm not seeing that outweighs the detriments?

When you roll the dice by "grabbing" them from the desktop and throwing them with the mouse, being limited to the chatbox is annoying, and was a source of frustration for my players more than once. For non-advanced users who do not have die rolls stored in macros, this method of rolling is more intuitive, but the roll used to fail more often than not because the players were unaware that they had to target the chatbox. Note that this is a barrier to entry for first-time users, so it is imperative that the default be "roll anywhere". Doing otherwise would discourage noobs, which should be prioritized over advanced users as long as the default settings are concerned. Once your players get used to customizing their rolls in buttons you can activate options to limit the area where the dice roll.

[Asgurgolas]

The new system can be good, but I'd also love for an option to restrict dice to the chatbox as players rolling random dice can be VERY distracting (some just do like to watch'em roll around the screen, but it was never an issue since they could just avoid rolling'em in the chatbox)

[Zacchaeus]

The new system can be good, but I'd also love for an option to restrict dice to the chatbox as players rolling random dice can be VERY distracting (some just do like to watch'em roll around the screen, but it was never an issue since they could just avoid rolling'em in the chatbox)

They can still roll dice around by holding ALT whilst they roll which won't broadcast the roll.

[rocketvaultgames]

Basically all the other VTTs do it this way (if they support dice) and it was confusing and frequently brought up by new users. FG dice are arguably the best dice as well, so this puts them more front and center.

RPGs are a turn-based game. You shouldn’t be seeing everyone’s dice everywhere all the time - just when it is their turn and the focus should be on what they are doing or attempting anyway.

Thank you very much for the reply!

1. FG dice are the best dice I've seen, and I'm all for the option to have them front and center. But it should be exactly that: an option!

2. RPGs are turn based, but there are still plenty of times when all the players need to roll at least 1 (often more due to ADV/DIS) at the same time (initiative / group saving throw, etc.) It is BRUTAL to have this go on all over the screen while I'm trying to look at / interact with anything else. Saving very small amounts of time and keeping focus is of utmost importance to keeping a game flowing. This both adds time and disrupts focus. (And often when everyone needs to roll, it's not at exactly the same time as they each take a variable amount of time to do it... so this graphical intrusion can span a quite a few seconds... in a world where I'm trying to save fractions of a second everywhere I can).


Again... I'm all for the new system as an option, but as it stands it is a massive downgrade to the usability of FG.

Is the changed code exposed enough that an extension could be (somewhat) easily developed to force rolls to chatbox?


EDIT: I'd also be very interested in how you feel about this mentioned previously:

"3. Example: Fireball... 8d6... Old system, all the dice land near each other and can be easily read at a glance... (those fun quick observations of spotting multiple 6s and 1s and intuiting a good/bad roll is fun!) Now they just go everywhere and the roll can't be easily "appreciated" for the lack of a better term. And wherever you are looking, isn't likely to be the chatbox... where you have to look next for the result! Before, your (and all the players') attention was already right there!... all experiencing the roll together.

This feels akin to, in a live session, just throwing the dice all over the table instead of rolling them in a dice tray. It's madness."

[rocketvaultgames]

Except when fidgeters like me forget to hold the ALT key while flinging dice around the screen. ;)

I don't even have the problem of players just rolling random dice for no reason all the time... I can only imagine how much worse that would be!!!

[rocketvaultgames]

Just say to your players "don't do that, please" or "use the ALT key, please", it could help.

To simulate the Chatbox effect, you can throw the dices softly to get them nicely grouped or with strength if you want chaos.


Surely you jest...

Many (most?) rolls are initiatiated by dropping dice on a token/CT actor, or double clicking something on a PC/NPC sheet...

[rocketvaultgames]

When you roll the dice by "grabbing" them from the desktop and throwing them with the mouse, being limited to the chatbox is annoying, and was a source of frustration for my players more than once. For non-advanced users who do not have die rolls stored in macros, this method of rolling is more intuitive, but the roll used to fail more often than not because the players were unaware that they had to target the chatbox. Note that this is a barrier to entry for first-time users, so it is imperative that the default be "roll anywhere". Doing otherwise would discourage noobs, which should be prioritized over advanced users as long as the default settings are concerned. Once your players get used to customizing their rolls in buttons you can activate options to limit the area where the dice roll.

I'm fine with the new way being the default... just let the old way be an option!

It does still boggle my mind that the concept of rolling dice in a dice tray TO KEEP THEM FROM GOING ALL OVER THE PLACE isn't intuitive.

[rocketvaultgames]

They can still roll dice around by holding ALT whilst they roll which won't broadcast the roll.

This isn't a problem for me, because my players just don't do that... just as they wouldn't at a real table.

But... asking players to remember and use another modifier is a huge ask. I play with bright, experienced people and they still have trouble keeping track of which modifiers do what (elevation, facing, size of tokens / circle, square, cone, etc.)


I'd be very happy with the old functionality but hold ALT to roll outside the chatbox!

[RosenMcStern]

It does still boggle my mind that the concept of rolling dice in a dice tray TO KEEP THEM FROM GOING ALL OVER THE PLACE isn't intuitive.

Not everyone uses dice trays at the table, and not everyone is annoyed by having dice rolling around on a virtual space. But more importantly, there is nothing that can warn noob players that the imaginary boundaries of the chatbox will act as a barrier for the simulated dice.

[Jiminimonka]

What I want, is for FG to have the dice scale different for each player and show that across the rolls, so some dice are big, some are tiny and some are between big and tiny.

I don't mind the dice all over the screen.

[rocketvaultgames]

Not everyone uses dice trays at the table, and not everyone is annoyed by having dice rolling around on a virtual space. But more importantly, there is nothing that can warn noob players that the imaginary boundaries of the chatbox will act as a barrier for the simulated dice.

Cool. Make the new way be the default OPTION.

[LordEntrails]

Cool. Make the new way be the default OPTION.
The stated intent of the change was to lower the barrier for entry. If we want FG to stay healthy, we need new people to join us.
Of course, you can't alienate your current user base either.
It's a business decision and no decision is going to be ideal for all use cases or users.

[rocketvaultgames]

The stated intent of the change was to lower the barrier for entry. If we want FG to stay healthy, we need new people to join us.
Of course, you can't alienate your current user base either.
It's a business decision and no decision is going to be ideal for all use cases or users.

I repeat: Cool. Make the new way be the default OPTION.

[LordEntrails]

I repeat: Cool. Make the new way be the default OPTION.
Cool. But that defeats the objective of new user adoption.

Personally I prefer the old way. I don't like the dice rolling all over the screen. But I don't expect SW to hinder new user adoptions because some existing users don't like the change.

Since no one else has apparently done it. I've added a suggestion to the Feature Request list. Once it is approved you can vote on it, it is titled "Option to Disable Display of Other's Dice". Of course, if that is not what you want, then anyone can make their own feature request so we can all vote on it.

[SetokaibaZAR]

They need a feature to disable my screen from suffering childish players from tossing 100 dice across the screen and having those 100 dice bombard my screen!!!! It is unacceptable and i don't care who thinks its awsome try to cater for everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jiminimonka]

They need a feature to disable my screen from suffering childish players from tossing 100 dice across the screen and having those 100 dice bombard my screen!!!! It is unacceptable and i don't care who thinks its awsome try to cater for everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you have players doing that, stop playing with them. Or tell them to hold down ALT while they play so they get it out of their system.

!!!!! ;)

[Trenloe]

... suffering childish players from tossing 100 dice across the screen and having those 100 dice bombard my screen!!!! It is unacceptable...
I totally agree - that sort of behavior from players is unacceptable - assuming you've asked them to stop, and they keep on doing it.

[Egheal]

Life is too short to endure this kind of behavior. Get rid of these players.

[*Neuro*]

Thanks god dice are not rolling only in the chatbox as before. Great addition to the already good software. Thumbs Up!:D

[anstett]

My players quickly adapted to the new way of rolling. They are very happy about this.

On the GM side being able to scale the dice down really far down from the 200% max makes it very easy to adapt mid-game.

As an aside if you have the Dice Jail & Smelter extensions.... and set to 200% with extra FX on the dice..... you could get a warning for the lightshow. :)

[rocketvaultgames]

Cool. But that defeats the objective of new user adoption.

Personally I prefer the old way. I don't like the dice rolling all over the screen. But I don't expect SW to hinder new user adoptions because some existing users don't like the change.

Since no one else has apparently done it. I've added a suggestion to the Feature Request list. Once it is approved you can vote on it, it is titled "Option to Disable Display of Other's Dice". Of course, if that is not what you want, then anyone can make their own feature request so we can all vote on it.

Either I'm explaining this poorly or you are not understanding my meaning.

I mean that the NEW way (4.8, rolling all over the screen) for whatever reason (business, new user helpfulness, etc.) should be the DEFAULT. Just have an OPTION for those of us that want to keep it the excellent way it has been for years.

[rocketvaultgames]

Thanks god dice are not rolling only in the chatbox as before. Great addition to the already good software. Thumbs Up!:D

I'm sincerely happy that it is useful for you and others. It isn't for everyone, so the new functionality should be the default with an option to keep the the old way.

[LordEntrails]

Either I'm explaining this poorly or you are not understanding my meaning.

I mean that the NEW way (4.8, rolling all over the screen) for whatever reason (business, new user helpfulness, etc.) should be the DEFAULT. Just have an OPTION for those of us that want to keep it the excellent way it has been for years.
Ah yes. I was totally confused. I though you were saying the opposite. Thanks for clarifying!

[Egheal]

I'm sincerely happy that it is useful for you and others. It isn't for everyone, so the new functionality should be the default with an option to keep the the old way.
If I understand correctly, the problem is that it will not be possible to keep both options (tray only/everywhere). The only "workaround" I see is the one proposed by Lord Entrails: an option to "Disable Display of Other's Dice" that will respond to only one part of your grivance though.

[rocketvaultgames]

If I understand correctly, the problem is that it will not be possible to keep both options (tray only/everywhere). The only "workaround" I see is the one proposed by Lord Entrails: an option to "Disable Display of Other's Dice" that will respond to only one part of your grivance though.

You do understand the gripe correctly.

However, the "only workaround' you mention has nothing to do with my issue.

I want to see my players' dice. I want the same dice behavior I've enjoyed for 5+ years. I don't want other users to have to use the old method. I'm very OK with the new method being the default. It's just brutal to have it foisted upon me, when clearly the technology exists to constrain dice rolls to the chatbox (dice tray).

[rocketvaultgames]

Here is an analogy(?) of part of why I strongly dislike the new dice behavior.

It is akin to the following at a live table (sans VTT):

Me (GM): "The orcs raise their spears and move to attack! Everybody roll initiative!"

[I look down to the orc statblock in the book to figure out what they do first, making use of this brief time to keep the game flowing smoothly!]

5 players all roll their dice ONTO MY BOOK BEHIND THE GM SCREEN over the next 3-8 seconds.

I don't understand how this is desirable...




Another:

Again, akin to a live game...

We are 4 years deep into a D&D 5e campaign. My players and I have been using basic $3.75 dice trays to contain our dice for the duration of the campaign. They work very well considering the price, especially. [They even have ceiling mounted DMX pin-spots trained on them so that dice can be easily read with only dim, ambient lighting in the room... but I digress...]

Players show up for next session.

"Hey, where's my dice tray?"

"Yeah, mine's gone, too!"

Me (GM): "Yeah, now you just have to roll all over the table and all over our open books."

Players: "Huh. Weird. Why?"

Me: "Everyone does it?? And it's better for new players?"

Players: "Cool, but we're old players... how is this helpful? I want to see all of my dice together when I roll"

Me: Yeah, it's not better or helpful... in fact it seems significantly worse, but despite my complaints, this is just how it is now.

Players: "It seems like we should have the choice at least. Like... maybe the new players can roll all over the table... but we can keep doing what's been working wonderfully for years with the system we bought?

Me: "Uh, yeah... that would be ideal."

Players: ...

Me: ...





[It's actually so much worse... as old (pre-4.8) FG behavior was like everyone having a dice tray with a camera on it and an unobtrusive monitor that simulcasted everyone's dice tray! The holy grail of dice rolling!!!]

[HywelPhillips]

I agree with Rocketvaultgames. I preferred the chat box = dice tray, as did my group.

[humby]

I'd also prefer an option to have dice rolls constrained to the chat box - I was running a game last week where one of my players has an ultrawide monitor and every time they would roll, the dice would disappear off my screen and then keep rolling for a few seconds out of sight. This meant that (from my perspective, at least) each of their rolls had a small but annoying delay where it appeared that the dice had stopped rolling (although they hadn't), but the result hadn't yet been posted to chat.

I also think that having the dice go off-screen robs players of the most exciting part of having the dice physically-modelled: that excruciating moment when the dice hang on an edge and you don't know which way they'll fall, or they look like they've settled on a result and at the very last moment tip over to different side...

[superteddy57]

I'd also prefer an option to have dice rolls constrained to the chat box - I was running a game last week where one of my players has an ultrawide monitor and every time they would roll, the dice would disappear off my screen and then keep rolling for a few seconds out of sight. This meant that (from my perspective, at least) each of their rolls had a small but annoying delay where it appeared that the dice had stopped rolling (although they hadn't), but the result hadn't yet been posted to chat.

I also think that having the dice go off-screen robs players of the most exciting part of having the dice physically-modelled: that excruciating moment when the dice hang on an edge and you don't know which way they'll fall, or they look like they've settled on a result and at the very last moment tip over to different side...

This is being looked into and not intended.

[Ludd_G]

Please give us the option to revert to the old method of constrained dice rolls, for all the reasons already stated.

Cheers,

Simon

[LordEntrails]

This seems like it's pretty important to folks. Yet no one has voted on my suggestion https://www.fantasygrounds.com/featurerequests/featurerequests.php?titlesearch=Option%20to%20Disa ble%20Display%20of%20Other\
(which is fine). But if you really want the dice tray option, wouldn't it be worth your time to put it on the Feature Request list? Discussion is awesome, but actually being able to count the votes is possible more influential.

[rocketvaultgames]

This seems like it's pretty important to folks. Yet no one has voted on my suggestion https://www.fantasygrounds.com/featurerequests/featurerequests.php?titlesearch=Option%20to%20Disa ble%20Display%20of%20Other\
(which is fine). But if you really want the dice tray option, wouldn't it be worth your time to put it on the Feature Request list? Discussion is awesome, but actually being able to count the votes is possible more influential.

1. The suggestion you link does not address my issue. (I want to see the other users rolls. Where they belong. In the chatbox.) I am certainly not against this suggestion. It sounds like another good option for some. I just don't see using it myself.

2. Historically, I've seen many more (of my) concerns be addressed through forum discussion than feature requests.

3. I don't view this as a feature request, but as a bug to be addressed in the House of Healing (The place to find help for technical problems running Fantasy Grounds). Dice rolls worked perfectly before, and now they don't (from my perspective).

4. If this was a minor nuisance and not a dealbreaker for continuing with FG moving forward, I would not be so vocal about it.

[humby]

This is being looked into and not intended.
Good to know, thanks!

[LordEntrails]

I'm not saying don't be vocal. I'm also not saying the request I made would solve your issue. I'm saying that you and others are putting a lot of energy into this. Why wouldn't you take the 90 seconds it takes (or less) to put your own request on the board?

You can argue if its a bug or not, but general software development does not consider intended changes as bugs. None of my developers who work for me is going to consider something working exactly as they planned it to be a bug. No matter how much a set of users don't like it. It might be a design mistake, but its not a bug.

But it really doesn't matter if its a bug, a mistake, or a request. SmiteWorks has given us multiple means to voice our views. If this is so important to all of you, then why wouldn't use use all of them? Besides, not everyone who shares your views are going to be willing to engage at the level that you are. But I bet they would be willing to follow a link and click on a vote button.

I don't understand the resistance to using the feature request list as an additional method. Not that I need to. Your choice.

[Maasq]

I posted a suggestion that I don't think would be difficult to implement, that would maintain the 'dice anywhere' aesthetic that this update brought, but allow for people to set their own bounds (a virtual dice tray). Obviously each user could set this to their chat window if they wished.

Set bounds for dice rolling (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/featurerequests/featurerequests.php?titlesearch=[Pending]%20Set%20bounds%20for%20dice%20rolling)

Got vote :)

Maasq

[Periwinkle]

I didn't see the suggestion, but I agree with it, I think. Something along the lines of "Enable a per client option to set the boundary of the 3D dice rolling area for their own instance of FG. Default to full window size. Allow the area to be reduced in size so as to sequester the dice to a region of the window. This would remediate conecerns that dice going all over the desktop irritates the individual player. Every player in the game would have their own setting that only affects the way they see the 3D dice animation."

[rocketvaultgames]

I didn't see the suggestion, but I agree with it, I think. Something along the lines of "Enable a per client option to set the boundary of the 3D dice rolling area for their own instance of FG. Default to full window size. Allow the area to be reduced in size so as to sequester the dice to a region of the window. This would remediate conecerns that dice going all over the desktop irritates the individual player. Every player in the game would have their own setting that only affects the way they see the 3D dice animation."

This would be nice as another option, but if this is the path taken, I would still like the option to have it as it was. Having everyone see the same animation at the same time is important to us (truly an amazing feature!), so each player's 'rolling area' would need to be the same shape proportionately (e.g. a 16:9 ratio rectangle).

I imagine the far simpler solution is to have the new method (roll everywhere) be the default, and the old method (roll in chatbox/dicetray) be a toggleable option on the GM side for the table.

[Mythic3434]

For me, I would also like to add that when I am streaming, with the unrestricted dice, now my viewers cannot see the dice roll as they bounce all over the place. I had a few viewers comment on the fact they cannot see the dice. Restricting it to my chat negates this. So, it is a detriment to steaming, at least for me.

[Periwinkle]

This would be nice as another option, but if this is the path taken, I would still like the option to have it as it was. Having everyone see the same animation at the same time is important to us (truly an amazing feature!), so each player's 'rolling area' would need to be the same shape proportionately (e.g. a 16:9 ratio rectangle).

I imagine the far simpler solution is to have the new method (roll everywhere) be the default, and the old method (roll in chatbox/dicetray) be a toggleable option on the GM side for the table.

Probably true, since they already have code for both behaviors. While I don't like the new dice behavior from a GM's point of view, the primary reason I came to the forums was the problem Humby pointed out. I spent a lot of my last gaming session having to wait to see a result in the chat box because the dice kept rolling off my screen. Seeing that Superteddy said they were working on that bug, I am content to wait for a bit.

In Foundry, I can see the other players rolls and also restrict the dice to whatever portion of my screen that I want. I don't have to put up with other player's dice scaling. I don't have dice flying all over the screen, although that is the default behavior. I was happy when I learned how to limit it.

[Ludd_G]

This would be nice as another option, but if this is the path taken, I would still like the option to have it as it was. Having everyone see the same animation at the same time is important to us (truly an amazing feature!), so each player's 'rolling area' would need to be the same shape proportionately (e.g. a 16:9 ratio rectangle).

I imagine the far simpler solution is to have the new method (roll everywhere) be the default, and the old method (roll in chatbox/dicetray) be a toggleable option on the GM side for the table.

My thoughts exactly.

Cheers,

Simon

[LordEntrails]

Masaq's Feature Request;
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/featurerequests/featurerequests.php?titlesearch=Set%20bounds%20for %20dice%20rolling

[Ludd_G]

I've made a feature request to specifically allow the option to keep the original dice rolling, confined to the chat box:

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/featurerequests/featurerequests.php?titlesearch=Dice%20Roll%20in%2 0Chat%20Box%20Option


Cheers,

Simon

[rocketvaultgames]

I've made a feature request to specifically allow the option to keep the original dice rolling, confined to the chat box:

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/featurerequests/featurerequests.php?titlesearch=Dice%20Roll%20in%2 0Chat%20Box%20Option


Cheers,

Simon

Thanks! I've voted for it.

In the meantime, if anyone is capable of making an extension to enable the pre-4.8 dice behavior, let me know what it will cost.

[Moon Wizard]

For advanced users that just absolutely do not want to see dice from other players, we added a chat command to enable remote rolls to be disabled/enabled.
/dicenetwork [on/off]

Regards,
JPG

[rocketvaultgames]

For advanced users that just absolutely do not want to see dice from other players, we added a chat command to enable remote rolls to be disabled/enabled.
/dicenetwork [on/off]

Regards,
JPG


I fully support and am sincerely happy to see this option.

It might be the happy medium to put "advanced" options in /commands rather than confuse new users with too many options in "Options".

However, this is not a solution to my issue. I desperately want to see my players dice rolls. I just want them contained in the dice tray like they used to be.

Maybe we'll see a "/dicetray [on/off]" soon?...



Here is the formal request. Please vote for it and ask all of your players to vote for it as well: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/featurerequests/featurerequests.php?titlesearch=Dice%20Roll%20in%2 0Chat%20Box%20Option


I'm also very interested in an extension to restore 4.7 dice rolling functionality in the meantime. If someone wants to quote what that would cost, I'm all ears.

[LordEntrails]

Dice rolling is embedded in the core engine. I don't think there is a way for any extension to change it's behavior.

[rocketvaultgames]

Dice rolling is embedded in the core engine. I don't think there is a way for any extension to change it's behavior.

Disappointing...

The 'most popular' Foundry addon handles rollable area quite elegantly: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/pkt7i9he8ek5dsyj972l3/Recording-2025-08-14-094146.mp4?rlkey=82anqun6zxwhseo7ux7qig8a6&dl=0

Please help me stay with Fantasy Grounds.

[HywelPhillips]

I fully support and am sincerely happy to see this option.

However, this is not a solution to my issue. I desperately want to see my players dice rolls. I just want them contained in the dice tray like they used to be.

Maybe we'll see a "/dicetray [on/off]" soon?...



I don't want to go on about it, I'm aware I sometime whinge about changes that fade to minor irritations - like character sheets defaulting to being locked, where I'm clearly in a small minority and had better just put up with it.

But I do think the functionality of having the chat window as a dice tray to contain rolls is one that I am still missing after several games. We'll see if the fixes to rolling off-screen and the change to default drop zone help. It was interesting to hear my players last week referring to the chat window as "the dice tray" - not terminology I've ever used, or that they've picked up from the documentation. They'd simply reacted to the skeuomorphic nature of the interface and decided that window was the dice tray. They were universal in wanting "dice rolls stay on the dice tray" back.

The new chat option addresses one of the concerns people had with the new interface, but not the one that actually bothered my group. So /dicetray on would be welcome for us.

Cheers, Hywel

[rocketvaultgames]

I don't want to go on about it, I'm aware I sometime whinge about changes that fade to minor irritations - like character sheets defaulting to being locked, where I'm clearly in a small minority and had better just put up with it.

But I do think the functionality of having the chat window as a dice tray to contain rolls is one that I am still missing after several games. We'll see if the fixes to rolling off-screen and the change to default drop zone help. It was interesting to hear my players last week referring to the chat window as "the dice tray" - not terminology I've ever used, or that they've picked up from the documentation. They'd simply reacted to the skeuomorphic nature of the interface and decided that window was the dice tray. They were universal in wanting "dice rolls stay on the dice tray" back.

The new chat option addresses one of the concerns people had with the new interface, but not the one that actually bothered my group. So /dicetray on would be welcome for us.

Cheers, Hywel

I don't want to go on about it either, but it's a dealbreaker for me.

Side note: I agree with you on locking character sheets as well (I still have players confused by that behavior), but it's not quite bad enough to jump ship... same with auto-claiming characters on login... annoying but whatever, I'll deal with it.


P.S. Thank you for adding skeuomorphic to my lexicon.




Super side note: The last dealbreaker was the addition of the Combat List. Fortunately they included (after thorough complaints) an option to hide it... and with extensions, I was able to hide the toggle on/off button from the clients as well.

[FGMax]

Mine and my group's experience is it's hard to follow the dice as they go all over the screen as has been said already. I'll add that the bigger issue was for us we're used to dragging and dropping our dice onto our targets and now that the entire screen is a dice roll function, it's a lot less consistent that we're able to do that when we want to. I think the feature request to allow us to revert to the previous chat box contained dice rolling would make it a winning situation for everyone.

[ddavison]

Dropping dice on a target should work as it did before. If the dice are moving at a high velocity, it assumes you are rolling. If you are positioning over a target and drop it, it should register as a targeted roll.

[rocketvaultgames]

Mine and my group's experience is it's hard to follow the dice as they go all over the screen as has been said already. I'll add that the bigger issue was for us we're used to dragging and dropping our dice onto our targets and now that the entire screen is a dice roll function, it's a lot less consistent that we're able to do that when we want to. I think the feature request to allow us to revert to the previous chat box contained dice rolling would make it a winning situation for everyone.

Vote for the feature (functionality restoration) request and make sure your players all do, too!

[Jiminimonka]

So far the only complaint I have had about dice is my players to me to stop rolling 2d42d62d82d10x20 - I was demonstrating how it could be annoying. But it didn't annoy me....

[rocketvaultgames]

So far the only complaint I have had about dice is my players to me to stop rolling 2d42d62d82d10x20 - I was demonstrating how it could be annoying. But it didn't annoy me....

Glad to hear it isn't a big enough problem to elicit more than the one complaint for your table!

To reiterate, the new method is great for some and should be the default. I just need an method to be able to reinstate the previous glorious implementation my tables have enjoyed for years.

[rocketvaultgames]

Had an in-person game last night for the first time since 4.8...

I run 2 instances of FG... one as GM on laptop and 1 as players on a TV on the table utilizing both tokens and miniatures.

We roll 99% of dice for GM and players as physical dice in our dice trays, but every once in a while I make a secret roll in FG (so that no one even knows I'm rolling).

Previously this was no issue as the FG dice tray for the TV is just dragged to the far extreme lower left of the screen and not visible to the players.

Now it just rolls the dice all over the screen. I realized too late that now I need to hold ALT in order to have the previous dice behavior that worked so well.



Side note... I really really wish I would have recorded my players' reactions when I told them about the new dice functionality... those quizzical looks... "Why?" they asked... "How is that an improvement?"...

All I could do was shrug.


EDIT: I'm wrong to say previous behavior above... it should just say "in order to hide the roll from the players"... it's not actually the previous behavior that worked so well. That is currently impossible to achieve.

[Jiminimonka]

Had an in-person game last night for the first time since 4.8...

I run 2 instances of FG... one as GM on laptop and 1 as players on a TV on the table utilizing both tokens and miniatures.

We roll 99% of dice for GM and players as physical dice in our dice trays, but every once in a while I make a secret roll in FG (so that no one even knows I'm rolling).

Previously this was no issue as the FG dice tray for the TV is just dragged to the far extreme lower left of the screen and not visible to the players.

Now it just rolls the dice all over the screen. I realized too late that now I need to hold ALT in order to have the previous dice behavior that worked so well.



Side note... I really really wish I would have recorded my players' reactions when I told them about the new dice functionality... those quizzical looks... "Why?" they asked... "How is that an improvement?"...

All I could do was shrug.


EDIT: I'm wrong to say previous behavior above... it should just say "in order to hide the roll from the players"... it's not actually the previous behavior that worked so well. That is currently impossible to achieve.

Dice Tower hides Dice Rolls from players when the GM uses it.

[rocketvaultgames]

Dice Tower hides Dice Rolls from players when the GM uses it.

Another step I didn't have to do before...

I'm not saying the new way isn't good for anyone or that it shouldn't be the default.

I just want 4.7 dice functionality that was simply perfect.

[MrDDT]

Had an in-person game last night for the first time since 4.8...

I run 2 instances of FG... one as GM on laptop and 1 as players on a TV on the table utilizing both tokens and miniatures.

We roll 99% of dice for GM and players as physical dice in our dice trays, but every once in a while I make a secret roll in FG (so that no one even knows I'm rolling).

Previously this was no issue as the FG dice tray for the TV is just dragged to the far extreme lower left of the screen and not visible to the players.

Now it just rolls the dice all over the screen. I realized too late that now I need to hold ALT in order to have the previous dice behavior that worked so well.



Side note... I really really wish I would have recorded my players' reactions when I told them about the new dice functionality... those quizzical looks... "Why?" they asked... "How is that an improvement?"...

All I could do was shrug.


EDIT: I'm wrong to say previous behavior above... it should just say "in order to hide the roll from the players"... it's not actually the previous behavior that worked so well. That is currently impossible to achieve.


You can use requested rolls ext, which I know you already use, it has the option to suppress dice rolls. Simply toggle that (which you can use hotkey) and it will roll (display in chat only) without sending the dice anywhere.

[rocketvaultgames]

You can use requested rolls ext, which I know you already use, it has the option to suppress dice rolls. Simply toggle that (which you can use hotkey) and it will roll (display in chat only) without sending the dice anywhere.

That is extra steps and still not equivalent to the previous functionality. I don't want to suppress dice rolls. I want to send the dice to the chatbox (dice tray) only; exactly how it worked before 4.8.

This most recent discovery from last night is a very tiny issue, but still functionally worse.



I (and others) have explained the real dealbreaker issues in previous posts.

If Smite Works won't provide the option (clearly the technology exists), and an extension can't provide the option (it sounds like this is base functionality that extensions can't touch), I find it difficult to envision a future with this VTT.


If I'm wrong about the extension part, please point me to someone who is interested in working on it and has an idea of what it might cost.


If Smite Works has plans to provide this option, please let me know that it is in the works and I'll shut up and just be patient.

[MrDDT]

This is kind of absurd.
You have 2 options that give you the options you want they just require slightly extra steps for an infrequent hidden roll.

where as this update is better for just about everyone. Why would SW need to add in another option thing just for one person? Who has options already to make it happen just how they want.

[rocketvaultgames]

This is kind of absurd.
You have 2 options that give you the options you want they just require slightly extra steps for an infrequent hidden roll.

where as this update is better for just about everyone. Why would SW need to add in another option thing just for one person? Who has options already to make it happen just how they want.

I repeat: the issue you mention here that I discovered last night is just a tiny, minuscule part of the problem. If this were the only issue, I wouldn't likely even bring it up. Or would certainly not continue to talk about it.

I continue to harp on this because I want to keep using Fantasy Grounds and this is preventing me from doing so. My current online campaigns are now on pause, and I need to soon decide if I'm going to migrate them to a different VTT (that supports a sensible and/or configurable rollable area). So an official answer regarding if this option is currently being worked on, and/or if there is a way to make an extension that provides the option for the old functionality would be very helpful.

The main problems have been explained above. It is not just 1 person (in fact, currently it's 22 people officially at time of writing this): https://www.fantasygrounds.com/featurerequests/featurerequests.php?titlesearch=Dice%20Roll%20in%2 0Chat%20Box%20Option



I will restate the real deal breaking issues here:

Excerpt from post #7:

1. I have no issue whatsoever with the previous longstanding implementation. (and that is saying something... I usually have some quibble with everything!)

2. On the GM side, I'm always looking for every opportunity to save microseconds during a session (my biggest current complaint is how laggy FG is with a lot of actors/effects in the CT). So now having dice flying all over the place when I'm trying to take a few seconds to look at the next thing I need to, while the players are rolling, is extremely distracting and adds both time and aggravation. (I thought at first I might get used to it, but I'm quickly realizing this might actually end my use of FG... and I fight through a lot to make FG do what I want well enough...

3. Example: Fireball... 8d6... Old system, all the dice land near each other and can be easily read at a glance... (those fun quick observations of spotting multiple 6s and 1s and intuiting a good/bad roll is fun!) Now they just go everywhere and the roll can't be easily "appreciated" for the lack of a better term. And wherever you are looking, isn't likely to be the chatbox... where you have to look next for the result! Before, your (and all the players') attention was already right there!... all experiencing the roll together.

This feels akin to, in a live session, just throwing the dice all over the table instead of rolling them in a dice tray. It's madness.


Excerpt from post #17:

2. RPGs are turn based, but there are still plenty of times when all the players need to roll at least 1 (often more due to ADV/DIS) at the same time (initiative / group saving throw, etc.) It is BRUTAL to have this go on all over the screen while I'm trying to look at / interact with anything else. Saving very small amounts of time and keeping focus is of utmost importance to keeping a game flowing. This both adds time and disrupts focus. (And often when everyone needs to roll, it's not at exactly the same time as they each take a variable amount of time to do it... so this graphical intrusion can span a quite a few seconds... in a world where I'm trying to save fractions of a second everywhere I can).

All of post # 39:

Here is an analogy(?) of part of why I strongly dislike the new dice behavior.

It is akin to the following at a live table (sans VTT):

Me (GM): "The orcs raise their spears and move to attack! Everybody roll initiative!"

[I look down to the orc statblock in the book to figure out what they do first, making use of this brief time to keep the game flowing smoothly!]

5 players all roll their dice ONTO MY BOOK BEHIND THE GM SCREEN over the next 3-8 seconds.

I don't understand how this is desirable...




Another:

Again, akin to a live game...

We are 4 years deep into a D&D 5e campaign. My players and I have been using basic $3.75 dice trays to contain our dice for the duration of the campaign. They work very well considering the price, especially. [They even have ceiling mounted DMX pin-spots trained on them so that dice can be easily read with only dim, ambient lighting in the room... but I digress...]

Players show up for next session.

"Hey, where's my dice tray?"

"Yeah, mine's gone, too!"

Me (GM): "Yeah, now you just have to roll all over the table and all over our open books."

Players: "Huh. Weird. Why?"

Me: "Everyone does it?? And it's better for new players?"

Players: "Cool, but we're old players... how is this helpful? I want to see all of my dice together when I roll"

Me: Yeah, it's not better or helpful... in fact it seems significantly worse, but despite my complaints, this is just how it is now.

Players: "It seems like we should have the choice at least. Like... maybe the new players can roll all over the table... but we can keep doing what's been working wonderfully for years with the system we bought?

Me: "Uh, yeah... that would be ideal."

Players: ...

Me: ...





[It's actually so much worse... as old (pre-4.8) FG behavior was like everyone having a dice tray with a camera on it and an unobtrusive monitor that simulcasted everyone's dice tray! The holy grail of dice rolling!!!]

[HywelPhillips]

Sorry, but it's not just one person, and the features regarding hidden rolls are not the issue for me. I prefer having the option to constrain the dice rolls to the chat window, as did (without my prompting) the rest of my group. Will we get used to it? I guess so. It is not a deal breaker for my group, and you can't rationalise and improve code without making changes. In general I applaud the UI changes.

But where I feel they subtract rather than enhancing, surely I should say so?

Especially in the case of changes where the code already exists. Sure, it might be a maintenance issue long term to have roll in chat window as an option. Any extra code is a maintenance issue.

But I really preferred the old functionality and am sad to lose it.

[rocketvaultgames]

Sorry, but it's not just one person, and the features regarding hidden rolls are not the issue for me. I prefer having the option to constrain the dice rolls to the chat window, as did (without my prompting) the rest of my group. Will we get used to it? I guess so. It is not a deal breaker for my group, and you can't rationalise and improve code without making changes. In general I applaud the UI changes.

But where I feel they subtract rather than enhancing, surely I should say so?

Especially in the case of changes where the code alread-y exists. Sure, it might be a maintenance issue long term to have roll in chat window as an option. Any extra code is a maintenance issue.

But I really preferred the old functionality and am sad to lose it.

Hear, hear!

[MrDDT]

I repeat: the issue you mention here that I discovered last night is just a tiny, minuscule part of the problem. If this were the only issue, I wouldn't likely even bring it up. Or would certainly not continue to talk about it.

I continue to harp on this because I want to keep using Fantasy Grounds and this is preventing me from doing so. My current online campaigns are now on pause, and I need to soon decide if I'm going to migrate them to a different VTT (that supports a sensible and/or configurable rollable area). So an official answer regarding if this option is currently being worked on, and/or if there is a way to make an extension that provides the option for the old functionality would be very helpful.

The main problems have been explained above. It is not just 1 person (in fact, currently it's 22 people officially at time of writing this): https://www.fantasygrounds.com/featurerequests/featurerequests.php?titlesearch=Dice%20Roll%20in%2 0Chat%20Box%20Option



I will restate the real deal breaking issues here:

Excerpt from post #7:

1. I have no issue whatsoever with the previous longstanding implementation. (and that is saying something... I usually have some quibble with everything!)

2. On the GM side, I'm always looking for every opportunity to save microseconds during a session (my biggest current complaint is how laggy FG is with a lot of actors/effects in the CT). So now having dice flying all over the place when I'm trying to take a few seconds to look at the next thing I need to, while the players are rolling, is extremely distracting and adds both time and aggravation. (I thought at first I might get used to it, but I'm quickly realizing this might actually end my use of FG... and I fight through a lot to make FG do what I want well enough...

3. Example: Fireball... 8d6... Old system, all the dice land near each other and can be easily read at a glance... (those fun quick observations of spotting multiple 6s and 1s and intuiting a good/bad roll is fun!) Now they just go everywhere and the roll can't be easily "appreciated" for the lack of a better term. And wherever you are looking, isn't likely to be the chatbox... where you have to look next for the result! Before, your (and all the players') attention was already right there!... all experiencing the roll together.

This feels akin to, in a live session, just throwing the dice all over the table instead of rolling them in a dice tray. It's madness.


Excerpt from post #17:

2. RPGs are turn based, but there are still plenty of times when all the players need to roll at least 1 (often more due to ADV/DIS) at the same time (initiative / group saving throw, etc.) It is BRUTAL to have this go on all over the screen while I'm trying to look at / interact with anything else. Saving very small amounts of time and keeping focus is of utmost importance to keeping a game flowing. This both adds time and disrupts focus. (And often when everyone needs to roll, it's not at exactly the same time as they each take a variable amount of time to do it... so this graphical intrusion can span a quite a few seconds... in a world where I'm trying to save fractions of a second everywhere I can).

All of post # 39:

Here is an analogy(?) of part of why I strongly dislike the new dice behavior.

It is akin to the following at a live table (sans VTT):

Me (GM): "The orcs raise their spears and move to attack! Everybody roll initiative!"

[I look down to the orc statblock in the book to figure out what they do first, making use of this brief time to keep the game flowing smoothly!]

5 players all roll their dice ONTO MY BOOK BEHIND THE GM SCREEN over the next 3-8 seconds.

I don't understand how this is desirable...




Another:

Again, akin to a live game...

We are 4 years deep into a D&D 5e campaign. My players and I have been using basic $3.75 dice trays to contain our dice for the duration of the campaign. They work very well considering the price, especially. [They even have ceiling mounted DMX pin-spots trained on them so that dice can be easily read with only dim, ambient lighting in the room... but I digress...]

Players show up for next session.

"Hey, where's my dice tray?"

"Yeah, mine's gone, too!"

Me (GM): "Yeah, now you just have to roll all over the table and all over our open books."

Players: "Huh. Weird. Why?"

Me: "Everyone does it?? And it's better for new players?"

Players: "Cool, but we're old players... how is this helpful? I want to see all of my dice together when I roll"

Me: Yeah, it's not better or helpful... in fact it seems significantly worse, but despite my complaints, this is just how it is now.

Players: "It seems like we should have the choice at least. Like... maybe the new players can roll all over the table... but we can keep doing what's been working wonderfully for years with the system we bought?

Me: "Uh, yeah... that would be ideal."

Players: ...

Me: ...





[It's actually so much worse... as old (pre-4.8) FG behavior was like everyone having a dice tray with a camera on it and an unobtrusive monitor that simulcasted everyone's dice tray! The holy grail of dice rolling!!!]


Many other VTTs don't even have 3d dice, which is an option in FG.
Next what VTT are you talking about that has 3d dice that doesn't roll it as FG currently does and does it the old way FG does? ZERO.

You can simply just wait to tell them to roll INIT, you can also use no animation for those dice. You can also do the suggested options that I already said that take extra steps.
You are talking about such small things that happen rarely.
Also of the 22 people you GM for (or 21), I'm pretty sure all of them are not bothered by this and likely many of them if not all of them would like it if you were not upset by it.
All my players (more than 22 btw) love this. They can see the custom dice they picked rolling much better than just limited in a chat area.



Sorry, but it's not just one person, and the features regarding hidden rolls are not the issue for me. I prefer having the option to constrain the dice rolls to the chat window, as did (without my prompting) the rest of my group. Will we get used to it? I guess so. It is not a deal breaker for my group, and you can't rationalise and improve code without making changes. In general I applaud the UI changes.

But where I feel they subtract rather than enhancing, surely I should say so?

Especially in the case of changes where the code already exists. Sure, it might be a maintenance issue long term to have roll in chat window as an option. Any extra code is a maintenance issue.

But I really preferred the old functionality and am sad to lose it.

You are talking about a very small amount of people that need or would like this option, yet you want to add the option and negatively affect all of the others who now have to deal with ANOTHER option in the option list plus FG now has to support this option.
Not only that, but now also ext coders would have to take this option into any issues they would need to do things with dice also.

FG already has way to many options and it causes massive problems for GMs and ext authors.

[rocketvaultgames]

Many other VTTs don't even have 3d dice, which is an option in FG.

True. There are not a lot of options.... AND FG's dice generally look amazing!



Next what VTT are you talking about that has 3d dice that doesn't roll it as FG currently does and does it the old way FG does? ZERO.

The 'most popular' Foundry extension facilitates customizable rollable area, which while not exactly what I want, is still better than the dice going everywhere. The dice look much worse than Fantasy Grounds dice! (I complain vociferously because I don't want to move away from FG!!)

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/pkt7i9he8ek5dsyj972l3/Recording-2025-08-14-094146.mp4?rlkey=82anqun6zxwhseo7ux7qig8a6&e=1&dl=0



You can simply just wait to tell them to roll INIT, you can also use no animation for those dice. You can also do the suggested options that I already said that take extra steps.
You are talking about such small things that happen rarely.

Yes, but these are all explicitly downgrades from how it used to work. I don't want extra steps. I want the animations to be there (neatly off to the side contained in the dice tray)


Also of the 22 people you GM for (or 21), I'm pretty sure all of them are not bothered by this and likely many of them if not all of them would like it if you were not upset by it.
All my players (more than 22 btw) love this. They can see the custom dice they picked rolling much better than just limited in a chat area.

None of the 22 people I mention are my players... I'm referring to the users that have voted on the feature request (of which 1 is me and none are my players).

I'm sincerely happy that your players and many players like the new functionality. I'm very OK with it being the default. I just want an option to use the old method. Make it a slash command so as not to bog down new players with too many options in Options.



You are talking about a very small amount of people that need or would like this option, yet you want to add the option and negatively affect all of the others who now have to deal with ANOTHER option in the option list plus FG now has to support this option.

Hopefully we will soon see that is isn't a very small amount... VOTE HERE: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/featurerequests/featurerequests.php?titlesearch=Dice%20Roll%20in%2 0Chat%20Box%20Option

As I've said more than once in this thread: Make the 4.8 functionality the default and the old functionality an 'option'. it should not impinge on anyone that likes the new method or on new users.

I admit, it would be another option for FG to support. Thankfully the functionality is already in existence. Just old and new existing at the same time needs to be coded.... I'm not asking for a new feature. I'm asking for not a new feature.


Not only that, but now also ext coders would have to take this option into any issues they would need to do things with dice also.

Yup. Can't get around that. Again, fortunately, they already know how to handle the old way and now (presumably) know how to handle the new way. And really, what are we talking about outside of Requested Rolls (there might be a lot... I'm just not aware of them).


FG already has way to many options and it causes massive problems for GMs and ext authors.

On this point I just disagree. I'd love to have many more options (ideally nested in sub-options so if you don't care about Option A, you never even have to look at all of it's sub-options. I completely understand how others don't feel that way.

[wndrngdru]

I haven't been vocal thus far because others have pretty much been saying my thoughts.

Do I like the new behavior? Not especially. I find it mildly annoying.
Will I get used to the new behavior? Sure, but I will never not be annoyed by it.

Objectively speaking, I do not think this is an enhancement to the software. Unlike the new dice sizing (which I like), it doesn't add any new functionality. It just changes how the current functionality works. "Better" and "worse" are subjective.

A true enhancement would be to give me a "dicetray" frame that I can adjust to my own needs (defaulted to the full window, of course :) ). It doesn't even have to be a visible frame. Click an "Unlock Dicetray" button on the dice options window to make the frame visible and adjustable, then lock it again when I'm done.

A bonus enhancement would be to have the frame show up whenever dice are picked up to roll. Then it's obvious where dice can be dropped.


That said, I have no idea what the technological hurdles would be to make that work, given dice rolls are supposedly physics sims. How do you simulate a roll on 8 different machines with different dice tray sizes and still have the dice look right landing on the actual result? Maybe that part doesn't matter and it really only needs to be accurate for the person rolling.

EDIT: It looks like someone else already added this to the feature requests. (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/featurerequests/featurerequests.php?titlesearch=Set%20bounds%20for %20dice%20rolling)

[rocketvaultgames]

I haven't been vocal thus far because others have pretty much been saying my thoughts.

Do I like the new behavior? Not especially. I find it mildly annoying.
Will I get used to the new behavior? Sure, but I will never not be annoyed by it.

Objectively speaking, I do not think this is an enhancement to the software. Unlike the new dice sizing (which I like), it doesn't add any new functionality. It just changes how the current functionality works. "Better" and "worse" are subjective.

A true enhancement would be to give me a "dicetray" frame that I can adjust to my own needs (defaulted to the full window, of course :) ). It doesn't even have to be a visible frame. Click an "Unlock Dicetray" button on the dice options window to make the frame visible and adjustable, then lock it again when I'm done.

A bonus enhancement would be to have the frame show up whenever dice are picked up to roll. Then it's obvious where dice can be dropped.


That said, I have no idea what the technological hurdles would be to make that work, given dice rolls are supposedly physics sims. How do you simulate a roll on 8 different machines with different dice tray sizes and still have the dice look right landing on the actual result? Maybe that part doesn't matter and it really only needs to be accurate for the person rolling.

EDIT: It looks like someone else already added this to the feature requests. (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/featurerequests/featurerequests.php?titlesearch=Set%20bounds%20for %20dice%20rolling)

Thank you for adding your voice! I suspect there are more silent sufferers out there...

To anyone else seeing this that feels the same, please don't stay silent.

Add a comment to this thread and vote for the "Feature Requests".

[charmov]

There should be an option for dice to be chat only or anywhere. Don't even get me started on the story changes. I voted for these on the feature request but if there's another way to be heard I'm all ears.

[Cyrian]

2. On the GM side, I'm always looking for every opportunity to save microseconds during a session (my biggest current complaint is how laggy FG is with a lot of actors/effects in the CT). So now having dice flying all over the place when I'm trying to take a few seconds to look at the next thing I need to, while the players are rolling, is extremely distracting and adds both time and aggravation. (I thought at first I might get used to it, but I'm quickly realizing this might actually end my use of FG... and I fight through a lot to make FG do what I want well enough...

3. Example: Fireball... 8d6... Old system, all the dice land near each other and can be easily read at a glance... (those fun quick observations of spotting multiple 6s and 1s and intuiting a good/bad roll is fun!) Now they just go everywhere and the roll can't be easily "appreciated" for the lack of a better term. And wherever you are looking, isn't likely to be the chatbox... where you have to look next for the result! Before, your (and all the players') attention was already right there!... all experiencing the roll together.

This feels akin to, in a live session, just throwing the dice all over the table instead of rolling them in a dice tray. It's madness.

These two points are spot on for me. I'm always looking at the next story entry, reviewing enemy skills, etc. while people are rolling, and look at the tray when I see dice moving to watch the rolls. Everyone watching that 20 slowly tilt over to a 2, or vice versa, has been a thing my groups have enjoyed together for years. Now, I see dice fly all over and I completely ignore them, just glancing at the result when it hits the chatbox.

Can I suppress the dice rolls? Sure. But, I own some dice skins (mainly gifts from an absolute dice fiend of a player in my group), but if I'm going to suppress rolls, I guess that also means I don't need to buy anymore skins either.

Options to revert to the dice tray being the chat box, or a resizable dice tray frame, are both great ideas.

[Ludd_G]

That said, I have no idea what the technological hurdles would be to make that work, given dice rolls are supposedly physics sims. How do you simulate a roll on 8 different machines with different dice tray sizes and still have the dice look right landing on the actual result? Maybe that part doesn't matter and it really only needs to be accurate for the person rolling.
[/URL]

I had the same concerns about people having different sized rolling areas, but then realised that we can (and me and all my players do) already resize the chatbox (pre-update rolling area) to best suit our screen layout and real-estate so this must already have been taken into account in the dice coding.

Cheers and fingers crossed for a chat-box rolling option.

Simon

[rocketvaultgames]

I had the same concerns about people having different sized rolling areas, but then realised that we can (and me and all my players do) already resize the chatbox (pre-update rolling area) to best suit our screen layout and real-estate so this must already have been taken into account in the dice coding.

Cheers and fingers crossed for a chat-box rolling option.

Simon

Up to 27... Vote here to keep my future with FG alive: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/featurerequests/featurerequests.php?titlesearch=Dice%20Roll%20in%2 0Chat%20Box%20Option

[FGMax]

Up to 27... Vote here to keep my future with FG alive: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/featurerequests/featurerequests.php?titlesearch=Dice%20Roll%20in%2 0Chat%20Box%20Option

Up to more than that now. I've voted, and speaking with others including my players and other playgroups they have too.

[MartianXi]

Should be a GM option to do either... the manual dice rolls take way longer now, plus the chat box served as a dice tray like an in person live game. You wouldn't just throw dice through the center of the map, that would be a TPK for the minis.

I find with FGU the Devs make changes that a portion of the users asked for and I spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to do something again after the change. While I appreciate the new options, I feel like I keep having to re-learn how to use FGU.

[rocketvaultgames]

Up to more than that now. I've voted, and speaking with others including my players and other playgroups they have too.

Up to 38!... Glad to see the increase and thank you for adding your voice.


My games have been on 'pause' since the update, but I've come to the point where I can't wait any longer for this issue to get rectified.

It's been a great 5+ year run with thousands of hours and dollars sunk into FG, but alas, I've begun to make the (painful) transition to Foundry, which (for the time being) holds the crown for 'Least Bad VTT'. I still hold out hope that FG can reclaim the title by enabling an option for the dice to work in the brilliant way they used to.

[DevildrummerX]

I'm sorry, you're entitled to your opinion, but this a ridiculous overreaction.
So because a business doesn't drop everything they are doing behind the scenes to cater to your demand you're going to throw away FG.
I've got news for you if you enable 3D dice in Foundry, which btw requires a 3rd party module, they also roll across the entire screen.

Again you are entitled to your opinion but the fact this is such a deal breaker for you is comical. You've given Smiteworks less than 3 weeks to make a change. And this comes across so entitled its ridiculous. Have you ever considered maybe its not easy to offer an option to revert the behavior and maybe that had something to do with the extended testing window for this release? I'm sure you haven't considering you also don't seem to understand or appreciate that businesses especially those the size of Smiteworks have to plan things out in advance. You thinking they should pivot from their planned priorities to partially revert the main feature of a major release is naive to put it bluntly.

I agree it would be nice to have a toggle for those that want it, but to abandon the software because they can't do it in 3 weeks frankly undermines your request. Why should they prioritize this now when you've shown you'll drop the software because they made a legitimate attempt to improve the user experience that you don't like?

[rocketvaultgames]

I'm sorry, you're entitled to your opinion, but this a ridiculous overreaction.

We are all entitled to our opinions and this is a great place to discuss them where only those interested in them have to deal with them.


So because a business doesn't drop everything they are doing behind the scenes to cater to your demand you're going to throw away FG.

I'm not throwing it away. It will presumably be waiting for me if/when I choose to pick it back up.


I've got news for you if you enable 3D dice in Foundry, which btw requires a 3rd party module, they also roll across the entire screen.

This has been addressed earlier in this thread. I'm no stranger to 3rd party modules (I need 100+ extensions to get close to what I want FG to do). Dice So Nice also allows for easily defining the rollable area. (See link in Post #60 of this thread)


Again you are entitled to your opinion but the fact this is such a deal breaker for you is comical.

We are all entitled to our opinions and this is a great place to discuss them where only those interested in them have to deal with them.


You've given Smiteworks less than 3 weeks to make a change.

This was brought up when the change was on TEST.


And this comes across so entitled its ridiculous.

I'm not the only one who doesn't like this change... and we are all entitled to our opinions and this is a great place to discuss them where only those interested in them have to deal with them.


Have you ever considered maybe its not easy to offer an option to revert the behavior and maybe that had something to do with the extended testing window for this release?

Yes. But this is a case where the old functionality exists already. I certainly don't know all of the technical details, but I surmise it would not be the same as building it from scratch. (though I may be wrong about this and would love to be enlightened)


I'm sure you haven't considering you also don't seem to understand or appreciate that businesses especially those the size of Smiteworks have to plan things out in advance.

It must be nice to be sure of others' thoughts.


You thinking they should pivot from their planned priorities to partially revert the main feature of a major release is naive to put it bluntly.

We are all entitled to our opinions and this is a great place to discuss them where only those interested in them have to deal with them.


I don't disagree its a bad idea to have a toggle, but to abandon the software because they can't do it in 3 weeks frankly undermines your request. Why should they prioritize this now when you've shown you'll drop the software because they made a legitimate attempt to improve the user experience that you don't like?

If there was any sort of response along the lines of "we are looking at it and plan to at some point enable the option for the previous functionality", my response might be different.

If there was a way I could pay a developer to create an extension to revert to the old functionality, my response would be different. (My understanding is that the dice rolling is base/embedded FG functionality that extensions can't really touch. If I'm wrong, please let me know!)

I accept and laud the legitimate attempt to improve the user experience and as stated many times above am thrilled that others find it helpful and to see it be the default behavior. I just want the option to use the FG I've loved for the last 5 years.

I have also realized that this issue is actually just a symptom, not the root problem.

The root problem is that I couldn't stay with the old method if I wanted to (forgoing future updates in perpetuity). FVTT is structured in a way that I can stay on a version and not be dragged unwilling into new features that I'd prefer not to have (or at least wait until a campaign is concluded to do so).

So... even if this is 'fixed', and soon, it seems I will always be at the whims of new features that may affect me negatively.


I'm not excited about switching. I may find out it's too much work and give up. I wouldn't have considered switching without this change. I sincerely hope to use FG again in the future.

[HywelPhillips]

We are all entitled to our opinions and this is a great place to discuss them where only those interested in them have to deal with them.

The root problem is that I couldn't stay with the old method if I wanted to (forgoing future updates in perpetuity).

You do have a brief window of opportunity for doing this, but it requires you and your players not to habitually run check for updates, and ideally for the GM to always check out Test and decide whether to update when it goes live or tell the whole group not to.

If something coming your way in test isn't to your liking, you can choose not to update when it rolls out to live.

If something's just gone live and you hate it, there is a Prev build channel you can revert to in Settings->Advanced.

BUT it's a distinctly fragile moving target, and it means you also can't make any new purchases while you are using a frozen version of the software because the purchase download system uses the update system.

There are pluses and minuses to each approach.

Yes, it is rather more natural to freeze Foundry when you've got everything working and not touch it for the duration of a campaign. It is also pretty necessary because their breaking changes break stuff much more badly and for much longer than FGU tends to. Six months after a new major version of Foundry and you'll be lucky if half the commercial rulesets and modules you own have been updated to run with the latest version - let alone the hundreds of extensions.

One thing FGU does REALLY well at by comparison is fixing all the rulesets and commercial modules promptly, so when a big change rolls out, it'll already have been implemented for 5E, Pathfinder, etc. and most of the smaller rulesets follow promptly. If something you bought from the store breaks, SmiteWorks and the community generally have it fixed in hours or days. This is not my experience for Foundry.

FGU is not so good for extensions - which are after all code hacks maintained by the original authors, and are noted as coming with significant risk that they may not be as actively maintained. FVTT extensions are in my experience much worse - the big ones are well maintained, but very many of them get abandoned. You can run updates module by module, which you can't for FGU, but conversely even commercial purchases can lag months and months behind the core FVTT releases and mandate getting everything running and then freezing it and never touching it again because if you do it will break - and I mean break ugly and not work, rather than move over to new functionality across the whole ecosystem when that might not be what you want.

Sadly it is too late now for Prev to save you I think - a quick check of the Prev channel shows that it already has the dice-roll-everywhere version :(

There was some discussion of version-stamped additional Prev channel options but I think the conclusion was that it was too much dev effort for too little return, which broadly speaking I agree with. For every group who wants to freeze everything or roll back I think there are 20 or even 100 that just want everything to work even if the software does evolve under them.

I'd be interested in hearing your experience with FVTT if you do go that route. Frankly every time I am forced to use it I can't wait to get back to FGU but everyone's needs are different :)

Cheers, Hywel

[LordEntrails]

Looks like this thread has run its course and I don't see more value add in continuing it. I'm sorry to see anyone leave the platform, but that is there decision to make. Closing this thread.

Happy gaming all.

[BadEye]

Hello everyone - I wanted to drop a line here on this thread for visibility. We have been reviewing the feedback over the past few weeks on this topic (thanks for sharing it). We've seen enough at this point to confirm that allowing rolls anywhere on the screen has worked great for the many players that were asking for that and for smoothing the on-ramp for new players that were confused about the need for a roll to only count in the chatbox. So closing that loop - mission accomplished for what we set out to do there.

We've of course also seen the feedback here (and the feature request and a few other places) about providing an option to toggle dice rolling for a campaign back to only counting if it's in the chatbox. We wanted to give it a little room to breathe to make sure change bias wasn't the prevailing impetus for the feedback, and at this point we see there are good reasons that some groups want to keep things the way they were.

So, in our weekly meetings today, we kicked off development to add in an option for the GM to restrict rolls (that count) to the chatbox for a campaign. We'll provide more updates once we're further down the road with the development, but I wanted to be sure to let everyone here know we're taking that action.

Thanks again for sharing your feedback - we absolutely see and review it all, and we'll always look to make improvements for the most players we can within our bandwidth. We can't make everything an option, but in this case the feedback warrants it.

More updates to come when we have them.

Later gators!

[Zacchaeus]

I've opened this thread again so everyone can place effusive praise on the developers.

[HywelPhillips]

I've opened this thread again so everyone can place effusive praise on the developers.

Thank you, I would like to ;)

It is much appreciated, I do think there is a positive use-case for it, not least the fact that with 2 x 27" inch screens, it's much easier to look where you know the dice are going to be rolling.

Change bias is real and you can't keep all old UI conventions forever but this one I think it is the right call to retain as an option. In passing I note that even the FVTT extension everyone has mentioned has a restricted dice rolling area as an option. In FGU the obvious way to implement this is to keep the old chat window = dice tray skeuomorphism rather than have yet another free parameter in options which has to be interpreted for everyone with different screen sizes. The metaphor of chat = what you show to other people in the game so chat window = where you roll dice for everyone to see (including auto-rolled dice from clicking on character sheets etc) just makes sense to me. I'm sure that's why it was implemented in that way in the first place.

So indeed thank you to the developers for being receptive and responsive, as usual.

Cheers, Hywel.

[The Decepticon]

"The squeaky wheel gets the kick." - Minsc

[Ludd_G]

Thank you Devs for listening and acting, it's much appreciated.

Cheers,

Simon

[Mike Serfass]

The responsiveness of the team is one of the reasons I use FG.
They do a lot to support numerous systems and numerous play styles.
Thank you!

[dford1702]

Agree - if there was an award for best value returned per gaming dollar spent, it would have to go to Smiteworks. I used to support IBM mainframe computers, and smiteworks is more responsive in creating fixes for problems and responding to user input than big blue was.

[BadEye]

Quick update - the option to toggle between the default roll anywhere and limiting to the chatbox is available in the TEST channel. You can find it in the options window.

65352

Feel free to try it out and let us know if you run into any issues. We'll release the option to the LIVE channel once we've completed our testing.

Have a good weekend!

[rocketvaultgames]

Quick update - the option to toggle between the default roll anywhere and limiting to the chatbox is available in the TEST channel. You can find it in the options window.

65352

Feel free to try it out and let us know if you run into any issues. We'll release the option to the LIVE channel once we've completed our testing.

Have a good weekend!

Sincere thanks for the update!

Just tested a little and from what I could tell with the new setting on, the dice rolls all behave exactly like they used to (Yay!).

Am I correct to say that? Is the intention for that setting to replicate the old functionality?

Is there anything else I should be looking for with more extensive testing?

[Moon Wizard]

That's correct. The option was to create a mode that worked like the old method.

We are still debating whether to "refine" the chat window option to limit the dice completely like we do for the tabletop, but that means they would spin against the sides if the originating roll chat box area greater than remote roll chat box area. That is how the new rolls work with the tabletop to prevent dice from being completely off screen when rolling from large full screen to smaller remote screen.

Regards,
JPG

[rocketvaultgames]

Sounds good.

As far as I can tell, for my personal purposes, this new option (as it currently stands) completely fixes the issue I had with the change in 4.8.

You have my sincere thanks.

I suspect I would not be a fan of 'spinning against the sides' but I'd have to see it in action to have a real opinion.

[HywelPhillips]

I haven't tried with players connected but the version on Test works just fine in some quick tests for me and brings back the core functionality that I wanted (which is that I know where to look when the dice are rolling and they don't go everywhere).

Cheers, Hywel

[FGMax]

I haven't tested it myself but I have heard from a player who tested it and from people here so far and it sounds great. Thanks for listening FG!

[ddavison]

Thanks everyone. We appreciate the feedback you provide and the patience you show us as we work through updates.

[MaxAstro]

Thank you SO MUCH for making this an option! I'm always happy to see improvements, but this particular improvement was causing a lot of friction for my players.

All my appreciation for the devs going the extra mile!

[Mythic3434]

Myself and my players and even my viewers will be happy with this option as well. Thanks for listening and giving us the option to roll in the chat box.

[Egheal]

The option “Dice: limit rolls to chat windows” is available in the Live Channel. Thank you!
For those who will use this option (I don't think I will), there is a bug if the dice size is not the same between players/GM:
If my player uses, say, a dice size of 240%, and I use for example 120% my rolls stay in my chat window but go outside my player's chat window, sometimes even off the screen.
I think Smiteworks is already aware of this behavior, but I have to say, to be consistent with all the dices behaviors, that I think it's better if all dice are limited to the chat window.

[MrDDT]

The option “Dice: limit rolls to chat windows” is available in the Live Channel. Thank you!
For those who will use this option (I don't think I will), there is a bug if the dice size is not the same between players/GM:
If my player uses, say, a dice size of 240%, and I use for example 120% my rolls stay in my chat window but go outside my player's chat window, sometimes even off the screen.
I think Smiteworks is already aware of this behavior, but I have to say, to be consistent with all the dices behaviors, that I think it's better if all dice are limited to the chat window.

Removed. - Misunderstood

[Egheal]

disregard this comment.

[Moon Wizard]

This is exactly how the settings worked before. The chat windows are mapped onto each other from the top-left corner; but dice were never confined to the chat window in the previous version.

Regards,
JPG

[Egheal]

I don't understand. When the dices were confined to the chat, every roll (except from the dice tray thrown outside), regardless of who made it, remained in the chat window. I have never seen dices out of the box (or I am loosing my mind, that's possible).

[Moon Wizard]

No, they were always confined to the originating roll client chat box boundary; not the local client chat box boundary.

Regards,
JPG

[ju95]

Dice remain in the chat window for the client at all times, but any user can adjust the size and position of there chat window, in addition to having different screen resolutions between system setups. Due to this, we tie the dice origin to the top left corner of the chat window for dice throws received from another user, but if they have their chat window at 1000x1000 and you have it at 250x400 (just as an example) then the network, when sending the dice roll coordinates, can go outside your chat window bounds while remaining inside the chat window of the user who made the roll.

This is an exact return to the functionality of pre 4.8, it is likely just more noticeable since larger dice can travel further on a larger chat window than it used to.

If I have misunderstood the issue and the client making the roll is having dice roll outside of their chat window, please let us know as that would be unintended.

[Egheal]

Ok, I understand. I hadn't noticed this effect before because we were all using the same chat window size and dice size. Now that the dice size varies considerably, it causes some problems. Not when they are rolled anywhere (this has been fixed), but when they are rolled inside the chat window. I'll make a video about it.


The video (https://youtu.be/jnJLaBkgi8c?si=tlmyYm8dLyDeaK3q)

[Nagorak]

I think there might be a bug with this new implementation. When rolls are triggered from character sheets they do stay in the chat window (which to be fair are most rolls). However, when dice are rolled manually by picking them up from the dice selection area and releasing them in the chat window, they do not appear to be constrained by the chat window and instead bounce out.

It's pretty clear that there is a "wall" holding the dice in when rolling from the character sheet that is absent when rolling the dice manually, so it's not just a physics interaction.

[ju95]

I think there might be a bug with this new implementation. When rolls are triggered from character sheets they do stay in the chat window (which to be fair are most rolls). However, when dice are rolled manually by picking them up from the dice selection area and releasing them in the chat window, they do not appear to be constrained by the chat window and instead bounce out.

It's pretty clear that there is a "wall" holding the dice in when rolling from the character sheet that is absent when rolling the dice manually, so it's not just a physics interaction.

I can't reproduce this locally, do you have any further information?

[bawsr]

Thank you very much for this feature. One of my players was very unhappy with dice all over the place :) I told them I think it would be taken care of :) Thanks for the quick options implemented. Now we just need the options per player.

[Nagorak]

I can't reproduce this locally, do you have any further information?

It may have something to do with the SWADE rule set. I tried making a new Core RPG campaign and I verified that it does work properly there, but in my SWADE campaigns (including a brand new one I made to test with no other extensions loaded) the dice bounce out when manually rolled in the chat window.

If you still can't reproduce it, I can spend some more time to to try to isolate if something else is causing it.

[Jiminimonka]

Have you set the walls of the chat box as high enough to stop the dice bouncing out? I put a lid on mine. ;)

[Mike Serfass]

The SWADE rule set doesn't have any control over where or how dice roll.
It can apply a dice skin, or indicate which dice get rolled and how they explode, but that's it.
Dice refusing to stay inside the box is outside of a rule set's control.

[Arsilon]

Interesting, I wonder why it happens in SWADE but not CoreRPG? The roll registers properly, eg if you roll it in the chat window it recognizes it as a valid roll and spits the result out into chat and CT whereas if you roll it outside, it rolls but doesn't register it as a valid roll (just like it used to).

I too validated it in both SWADE and coreRPG; I also tested it in the 5E tutorial campaign as well as a Fallout session and so far it's only SWADE that does this so there must be something different somewhere that is unique to SWADE.

[Nylanfs]

Did you double check to make sure that you didn't have a SWADE ruleset unpacked?

[Moon Wizard]

Can you guys give me the steps to recreate the issue, so I can investigate?

Thanks,
JPG

[wndrngdru]

Can you guys give me the steps to recreate the issue, so I can investigate?


Yep.

1. Create a new campaign with the Savage Worlds (Adventure Edition) ruleset.
2. Change the Option to limit dice to chat window to Yes.
3. Pick up die from the dice tray at the bottom of the screen.
4. Drop die on chat window.
5. Watch as die bounces off left side of window and rolls out across the rest of the FG desktop.

Edit: It looks like the left and top edges of the chat window are blocking dice travel but not the right and bottom.

[Arsilon]

In case you need another test scenario...

6. Drag dice from a character sheet, either Skill or Combat, to the chat window
7. Watch as the die also bounce beyond the wall of the chat window out across the rest of the FG desktop.

[Mike Serfass]

I can recreate this.
This happens even if pause the dice over the chat box, then drop them straight down.
Oddly, if the die explodes, the exploding die stays within the bounds of the chat box.

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=65455

[Mike Serfass]

I found where Savage Worlds deviates from Core on how rolls dropped in chat are handled.
I don't know why they would bounce around differently based on the code I'm looking at.
I'll work with Moon Wizard on this.

[Moon Wizard]

Thanks for the report. I've identified the issue and working on a fix. It might be a bit, so I can point at the alternative for the SW developers if they want to work around; or it can wait until the next release which is off a ways still.

Regards,
JPG